Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,August 07, 2019, 08:44:52 AM
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Before I finalize the wiring to my electric fuel pump, where have others pulled power from for this? I was going to run a dedicated switched circuit from the fuse box (already ran the wire to the engine bay) but thought to inquire what others have done.
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It's been a long time but I think I just found a white white wire on the fuse box and added an extra connection there.
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On my S2 (now sold), I took power directly from the battery to an external fuse box then to a relay, all in the engine compartment. The relay is energized when ever the ignition is on by using a terminal from the coil. Setup should be similar for the TCS. I was going to add a fuel pump impact safety cutout but sold the car before I got around to it.
Joji Tokumoto
Fallbrook, Ca
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It's been a long time but I think I just found a white white wire on the fuse box and added an extra connection there.
I believe that is how my PO wired mine. There were some spare spade lugs on the fuse block.
t
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Thanks guys. That is what I was looking for. Joji, love your schematic !
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In as far as possible, use the original colours for your wiring: brown = unfused battery, purple = fused battery, white = unfused ignition, green = fused ignition, black = ground, etc. It makes future troubleshooting a breeze.
Use "W" crimp terminals. They are a 1000% more reliable than "plastic insulated" terminals illustrated.
Use sleeves over your terminals to protect against inadvertent shorts.
Don't use the coil feed as an switched power source. It's not good practice.
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JB, I'm not familiar with "W" crimp terminals. Care to post a picture that explains them?
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Thanks JB. I don’t use crimp terminals, only solder connections. And everything gets shrink wrapped to protect.
Didn’t know about no using coil feed. Will make note of that.
Just ran out of the proper color coded wire, need to order more.
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In as far as possible, use the original colours for your wiring: brown = unfused battery, purple = fused battery, white = unfused ignition, green = fused ignition, black = ground, etc. It makes future troubleshooting a breeze.
Use "W" crimp terminals. They are a 1000% more reliable than "plastic insulated" terminals illustrated.
Use sleeves over your terminals to protect against inadvertent shorts.
Don't use the coil feed as an switched power source. It's not good practice.
I pretty much agree with JBC above. I was using parts I had on hand to get my S2 running. Not pretty but didn't have to run a new wire through to the fuse box for a switched power source.
John, what are "W" crimp terminals? I Googled it and came up with nothing.
Before I decided to use the coil for switched power, I did recall a discussion on the Yahoo Europa mail list about it. There was a concern about the fuel pump causing some type of feedback to the ignition system, don't remember the details. Do you have any more insight? I was going to use a isolation relay with the fuel pump relay but decided not to and keep it simple. I put a few hundred miles on the car with no ignition issues before I sold it.
Certified, where are you mounting your fuel pump on your TC?
Joji Tokumoto
Fallbrook, Ca
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Certified, where are you mounting your fuel pump on your TC?
Joji Tokumoto
Fallbrook, Ca
Electric fuel pump installed under the carbs and bolted to the chassis. Rubber isolation mounted.
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"W" crimp terminals look like this:
http://cdn3.volusion.com/ohrdx.wqydt/v/vspfiles/photos/C223-2T.jpg?1458738091
Sleeves:
http://cdn3.volusion.com/ohrdx.wqydt/v/vspfiles/photos/C222-2T.jpg?1458738065
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I don’t use crimp terminals, only solder connections.
I read a bit about the pros and cons of crimping vs soldering. What I learnt is that crimping is faster than soldering and no less reliable if done properly. In some cases it may even be more reliable. This is a good read if you are a crimp skeptic (or even if you're not)
https://hackaday.com/2017/02/09/good-in-a-pinch-the-physics-of-crimped-connections/
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I believe the American Yacht and Boat Council (ABYC) allows for crimped, or crimped and soldered, but not solder alone. They also require tinned copper wire.
Yeah, I know it a car, not a boat.
t
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"W" crimp terminals look like this:
Ahhh . . OK, I thought those were called “open barrel” terminals.
I used to solder them and add shrink wrap. Then a friend showed me his brand spanking new ratcheting crimper and I was hooked. It does such a brilliant job and consistently so.
First pic:
“Open_Barrel_Crimp”
Second pic:
"W" crimp for use on Tyco/AMP SOLISTRAND uninsulated terminals
My crimper does the same as the first pic.
The second pic seems to show a distinct ”W” shape pressed into a closed barrel of the terminal. Are these terminals and crimping style specific to those brand names (Tyco/AMP SOLISTRAND)?
Off hand, I don’t recall which crimp Lotus used.
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That looks like a really great crimping tool!
I'm guessing that for insulated terminals, the insulation would need to be pushed up the wire, then the terminal is crimped and then the insulation would be pushed back over the terminal. Right?
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You have to be careful with soldering where there is vibration.
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You have to strip the insulation off, crimp and then either insulate the terminal with heat shrink or a sleeve.
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That looks like a really great crimping tool!
I'm guessing that for insulated terminals, the insulation would need to be pushed up the wire, then the terminal is crimped and then the insulation would be pushed back over the terminal. Right?
I bought the Teng crimper because that’s what my mate bought. Also, I’d read about some of the cheaper ones not doing the crimps quite right.
But that was ages ago, so do some research and shop around. There's plenty of $20 ones out there these days and I've seen them at hardware box stores too so it should be easier to return if you get a dud item.
I only paid about $60 . . not the $160 at this link.
https://www.toolmart.com.au/teng-ttcp04.html
The Teng crimper came with three sets of jaws.
It also does the now more common colour coded plastic insulated terminals just fine with the insulation in place but I just think they look a bit ugly (and non Lotus) even if the crimp is OK.
The terminals JB linked to is also what I use & with the clear insulation sleeves that just push into place.
I think you can get black or coloured sleeves too.
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Certified, where are you mounting your fuel pump on your TC?
Joji Tokumoto
Fallbrook, Ca
Electric fuel pump installed under the carbs and bolted to the chassis. Rubber isolation mounted.
Facet style pump? If so, I would mount the pump as low the bottom of the tank as possible to get maximum suction head.
Checked the Facet website and this is what I found.
We recommend that you mount the fuel pump no more that 12 inches from the fuel supply (gas tank). All our Electronic fuel pumps will push fuel rather than pull fuel. Some pumps only have suction limit of 12 inches, therefore you should mount as close as possible to the tank.
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You have to be careful with soldering where there is vibration.
That only happens with a cold solder joint. I always pre-tin the end of the wire then heat the connector and solder once there is flow. After cooling shrink wrap the wire and connection.
Been doing it for 30 years on boats, cars and RC stuff. Never had a failure.
The new crimp connectors are very good. If I was doing this professionally I would own one.
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Facet style pump? If so, I would mount the pump as low the bottom of the tank as possible to get maximum suction head.
Anyone know maximum height the Facet pumps can draw fuel from (maximum height above the bottom of the tank)?
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It’s the electric fuel pump RD sells. I don’t have the pump specs on me at the moment but I looked up the lift and should be fine. I’ve got one in my Elan S1 and it’s also above the tank with no operating issues.
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The discussion of soldering prompted me to remind myself of what Carroll Smith, author of Prepare to Win, Tune to Win, and Nuts, Bolts, Fasteners and Plumbing Handbook (he says he wanted to call it "Screw to Win" but demurred), and probably other books on race car preparation, said about the subject. BTW, I recommend all of them. In Prepare to Win Carroll Smith sez:
I am fully aware that the claims made for the best of the low tension solderless terminals are valid and that the aircraft industry now uses precious little solder. I am just reactionary enough to believe that a properly soldered connection is better than the solderless terminals that I can afford. Use resin cored solder and an electric soldering iron (the pistol grip Weller gun is the best). The soldering iron must be both clean and well tinned. Clean it by dipping in a resin cup or rubbing on a piece of sal-ammoniac. Good terminals are supplied pre-tinned so precious little solder is required to make a good connection. A good mechanical joint is required. Excess solder not only looks nasty and increases the electrical resistance of the joint but the excessive heat necessary to deposit too much solder may well embrittle the wire leading to breakage at some later time. The right amount of heat, applied at the right place (on the back side of the terminal), not on the wire) with the right amount of solder (very little) will produce a perfect joint every time. Practice makes perfect. If you decide against soldering use only aircraft certified Sta-Kon solderless terminals - the automotive stuff is junk. In either case vinyl heat shrink tubing will not only improve the appearance of the assembly but will go a long way toward preventing short circuits.
I post this only for information and those who might interested and not to be on one side or other of any argument that hopefully will not happen. I, myself, use the cheap automotive terminals that he says are junk. An engineering buddy of mine once told me how impressed he was Sta-Kon terminals. I also was told by a friend who saw Carroll Smith's son's race car which was maintained by Carroll himself that he apparently didn't practice what he preaches (without knowing more, I'm willing to believe he had time or other constraints). Anyway discussions of soldering vs crimping on terminals don't seem to come up very often so I thought I'd throw Carroll's view of it into the mix.
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I attached a schematic of what I did on my car for the electric water pump, fuel pump, and ignition. I also added an anti run-on valve which my car did, maybe because it is 10.3 compression and has Hitachi SU carbs. The solenoid opens the manifold after the carbs to atmosphere, which kill the engine. Works well for me. I don;t know whether anyone else needs that feature.
I hope it is useful.
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I have never had a soldered joint fail. My friend who races will only crimp battery terminals. He has had too many fail. Good quality wire is flexible, even where it is crimped. Soldered battery wire goes solid and creates a stress point where the solder ends. YMMV
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Anyway discussions of soldering vs crimping on terminals don't seem to come up very often so I thought I'd throw Carroll's view of it into the mix.
Ahhh . . the great Carroll Smith. His “Prepare to Win” is particularly good and anyone restoring a Europa would find it helpful for the practical side of things, methinks.
The solder v crimp discussion can get pretty “heated” in some circles. I mean . . . now we have to choose between Carroll Smith and NASA? :FUNNY:
Anyway, like Certified, I’d also been soldering terminals for 30 years and never had a failure.
EDIT: Now that I think about it, make that 50 years!
I recall part of what convinced me was the consistency & quality of the crimper connection. Also, I previously neglected to mention that my mate also showed me his fancy (but not expensive) wire stripper.
This wire stripper also ensures quite precise & repeatable stripping of the wire.
But I’d agree that if all we’re doing is the occasional terminal here an there, it’s difficult and perhaps pointless to break the tried and true habit of a lifetime.
The other thing that convinced me was that, for many jobs I wanted to do, it would mean I had to plug in the soldering iron, arrange all the flux condiments, solder, iron stand etc. and do the soldering in some awkward upside down position under the dash . . tinning, dabbing and trying not to melt nearby wires & stuff.
If you’re doing the terminals on a bench, likely that doesn’t matter as much.
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Anyway discussions of soldering vs crimping on terminals don't seem to come up very often so I thought I'd throw Carroll's view of it into the mix.
The solder v crimp discussion can get pretty “heated” in some circles. I mean . . . now we have to choose between Carroll Smith and NASA? :FUNNY:
Gavin, you should be ashamed of yourself! ;)
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My friend who races will only crimp battery terminals. He has had too many fail.
You need special tools and a lot of pressure to crimp those heavy battery cables. Here's a video somebody made to demonstrate a 10 ton hydraulic battery cable crimper :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyXMJIgpeyE
Short version - the hydraulic crimper was $40 on ebay, and did a much better job than his old battery cable crimper.
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Cheap and works well:
https://www.amazon.ca/Z-Red-B790C-Hammer-Crimper/dp/B000M7LFKK/ref=asc_df_B000M7LFKK/?tag=googleshopc0c-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=292948034357&hvpos=1o3&hvnetw=g&hvrand=12354803538085032340&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9001384&hvtargid=pla-436125658553&psc=1
You can use it in a vise, press, or hit it with a hammer.
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Gavin, you should be ashamed of yourself! ;)
I should . . but ask yourself if I am. :D
I probably have half a dozen wire strippers but the pic below is the one I like the best. I can’t remember the brand and there are plenty of knock-offs around.
If considering one of these, the stripper lives and dies on the quality & precision of the cutting jaws. The good ones have ground jaws that are very sharp. They’ll even do the tiny CAT6 Ethernet wires with no damage to the copper strands.
There’s also some clever self-adjusting ones available too. I discounted those because they wouldn’t produce a dead square & clean cut. They also don’t properly remove, say an extra 2mm slice off a wire you’ve already stripped.
But everyone has their favourites, so that’s cool.
Actually, someone should to start a “Tool Talk” thread.
There’s so many good tools, artful adaptions & contraptions out there that fellow Europa home gamers could share.