Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: jbcollier on Friday,April 19, 2019, 01:12:45 PM
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Brazilian garage find video of an S2 with a belt-driven overhead cam engine I don’t recognize.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kA4ueNW0AtQ
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Toyota 4AF? The ancillaries driven off the front look similar but the distributor stuck off the back end appears to be missing. I hope there will be more videos on the continuation of the find and that the rear deck lid made home in one piece. I don't see any straps holding it in place.
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In the comment someone mentioned a chevette engine and there saying they want to do a restomod with zetec
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Bingo!
I knew the engine looked familiar. I just couldn't place it.
Thanks
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That looks ugly, like they cut out the firewall to clear, or maybe just to access the belts.
I'm just starting to rebuild my S2 and was curious if there is an easy engine swap anyone has ever identified. I presume not - with the pulleys on the transmission end of the engine.
I recall an article a long time ago about someone using a rotary engine out of an RX-7. A small V-6 would be a nice fit ....
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Having the belts on the tranny end of the engine isn't required but as you noticed, most swaps would pretty much require access to the front of the motor. Richard at Banks has done all kinds of swaps including Vauxhall 4 cylinder and Alfa Romeo V-6. Zetec swaps are popular (I think justifiably so). Ford swaps are a little easier if you can get a TC bell housing. A guy made a kit to swap in a Toyota 4-AGE ( I don't know if he's still producing them). If you might consider swapping in a small V-6, it sounds like you have a fairly high threshold of swapping pain. Easy is a relative term.
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There are no "easy" swaps. Nothing just bolts in. Even fitting a crossflow requires a fair amount of adaptation. Not trying to discourage anyone. Just making sure you go in with eyes wide open.
(Alfa V6s are a favourite engine of mine. Nice and narrow... hmm)
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I'll easily take your word for it, JB, especially for the Renault Europas since I don't know the potential choices.
It's not a common swap but my BDA swap might be one of the easiest. The biggest adaptation was the headers. Otherwise, I was able to use the standard motor mounts and the the TC bell housing would have mounted the stock 365 tranny if I had gone that route. All in all, it was a fairly straightforward swap which is good because I would have been way over my head! Of course if you have a TC, the easy swaps would be a "Kent" based engine but your better options get pretty expensive.
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I'm asking the question that has been asked before - but maybe with a new answer:
Ford has a 1.0 liter 3 cylinder engine that makes 123 HP, and 195 HP in the 1.5 liter version. 123HP would be a nice step up from the 86HP Renault engine. If I recall, that is Twin Cam types of power. 195 HP would be crazy. Plus, the 3 cylinder is likely short enough that all the pulleys on the front of the engine will have clearance versus the firewall.
The 1.5 is supposed to be available in the US in 2018/2019, so should be on-line soon. Very exciting.
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Heck, they have even fit Merlin V12s into cars, so anything is possible. It's how much work you are prepared to do.
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BDA - years ago I crewed for a Formula Atlantic (Swift DB4) in SCCA racing. Steve Jennings built the engines - Steve told us 250 HP with rev limit of 10,800 RPM. It had fuel injection - a system Steve built and was good for 8 hours of race time before it needed a rebuild. I understand that Dave Bean built your BDA - what kind of HP and rev limit did Dave tell you? Dave converted a Weber Elan head for me (added the intake cam alternator drive) using L cams - runs really great - I think Dave called it his Stage 3 engine.
Tom
74 TCS - 4605R
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Tom,
Jennings and Joey Grimaldi were the biggest Formula Atlantic motors back in the day. I knew about Grimaldi because a couple of my friends bought their cars after the pro series was complete. My buddies never got any dyno sheets but I suspect that they were all pretty much the same. My buddies' Formula Atlantic motors were the motivation for my motor when I acquired a street BDA head.
Dave Bean built my motor in '80. My instructions were to build a race motor for the road. It was to be balanced, ported, cc'ed, etc. He offered me a steel crank for $500. He said the cast crank was good for 7500 rpm (with an occasional run up to 8500) but the steel crank was good for another 1000 rpm (I'm sure that the steel crank he offered me was not the same crank people like Jennings and Grimaldi used in their engines). That would have raised the price of my motor another 10% and I didn't think I'd need to wind a street motor to 8500 rpm so I declined. I wish I had taken him up on it - not because I need the rpm but just because it's more durable and for $500 in today's dollars, that's incredibly cheap but that's water under the bridge.
As I said, my BDA head was a street head from England so the valves were a bit smaller than the race motors that Jennings and Grimaldi worked on. I know that around the time Dave built my motor, he advertised that he built BDRs for the street. I don't know how many he built, but he apparently built enough that he sold headers for the BDR (or BDA) in a Europa built by Mario Andretti's Indy Car fabricator. I got a set from him in stainless steel. I wonder if he had any Elan or 7 headers built for BDAs...
Dave used a warm cam (Burton Power's BLF-7 which is described as a fast road cam) and 45mm Webers (that seemed pretty big to me but they work fine). He did the machining for the intake came to accept an alternator pulley.
I had Dave dyno my motor. It peaked at 177 BHP @ 7500 rpm. It actually turned out that up to 6000, Dave's best TC produced more BHP than my motor. After that, my BDA walked away.
That's probably more than you wanted to know about my motor but you asked!
I've attached the dyno sheets he sent me.
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BDA - thanks for the info. Looking up in my old Dave Bean catalog, his Stage III motor develops ‘150 true HP with usable torque from 3000 to 7000 RPM’, whatever he meant by ‘true HP’. But, it is really fun to drive - your BDA must be even more fun.
Tom
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I don't know how many of you guys watch Jay Leno's Garage on YouTube, but the latest episode (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bng-3aNfqe0 ) is about the the Renault R5 Turbo which has a sweet little mid-mounted, turboed 1,397 cc Cléon-Fonte engine that apparently puts out 158 HP (according to Wikipedia). Being a Renault engine and transaxle, has anyone tried stuffing one of these into an S1 or S2 Europa? Seems like it would fit.
Tom
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Fooey, my hopes for the 3 cyl;inder Ford engine might be gone - looks like that is a transverse engine.
I'll only do a swap if it is relatively painless. I was thinking V6, because there is lots of sideways space, so getting a V that is 3 cylinders long, rather than the in-line 4, would make the engine shorter, leaving room for the pulleys in front. Same hope for the Ford 3 cylinder, but if it is transverse, it is a no-go. I wonder if Ford would release a CAD file of the engine/transmission ...
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Trying to source and fit a Renault 5 Turbo engine would be like trying to source and fit one of the Ferrari racing 4s from the 50s. Yes, it could be done but...
Minor comments on the show. Don't know any French builders? Gordini? Alpine? (Alpine built the R5 Turbos). OHC? Don't think so. Push rod, just like a crossflow.
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Surf - maybe it would fit, or maybe it wouldn't, but the Europa came with the lighter Cléon-Alu engine. Fonte means cast iron, in this context. I guess the R5 got the Fonte engine because it was a cheap car, while the R16, R17 etc. got the Alu engine because they were more expensive. I reckon the Fuego turbo engine would be a better swap for a Renault engined Europa.
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Not to say that all motors would be the same in this regard, but the door I made gives adequate access to change the timing belt and water pump belt. I believe the people with Zetecs also have a front mounted alternator.
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All good points regarding the R5 Turbo engine. My only thought was that it is longitudinally mounted petit middy and mashed impossibly close to a forward firewall, just like our cars. 158 HP seems like a lot of output for a street oriented 1400 cc.
t
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158 hp is the de-tuned street version. Fit a bigger turbo, injectors, etc and 250 is easily achievable. The R5 cast iron block can run way more boost than the alloy block turbos. This engine is also the classic large-turbo, huge-power with huge-lag, 80s rally specials. Handling characteristics change DRAMATICALLY when the boost kicks in.
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Fooey, my hopes for the 3 cyl;inder Ford engine might be gone - looks like that is a transverse engine.
I'll only do a swap if it is relatively painless. I was thinking V6, because there is lots of sideways space, so getting a V that is 3 cylinders long, rather than the in-line 4, would make the engine shorter, leaving room for the pulleys in front. Same hope for the Ford 3 cylinder, but if it is transverse, it is a no-go. I wonder if Ford would release a CAD file of the engine/transmission ...
Ford made a 3 litre V6 in the 70's which should meet your criteria and fit the bell housing. You would need a gearbox to cope with the power.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Capri
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That's the Cologne V6 that has the same bellhousing pattern, not the Essex V6. Right? And, if that's the case then the engines that Cosworth developed based on the Cologne V6 would also fit the same bellhousing?
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There was a later 2.8i V6 engine.
"The original Ford Cologne V6 is a series of 60° cast iron block V6 engines produced continuously by the Ford Motor Company in Cologne, Germany, since 1965. Along with the British Ford Essex V6 engine and the U.S. Buick V6 and GMC Truck V6, these were among the first mass-produced V6 engines in the world."
I think the 3.0 was the Essex engine built in Dagenham.
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Mazda had a K engine that was a 1.8L V6, though it looks to be transverse.
I want to dig in to a rotary. It would be nice if I could find CAD models. I can measure up the frame and build it in CAD, and we could see what fits.
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The Mazda K series has been converted to longitudinal mounting. There's a gal in the UK called Clare who made up the conversion parts (www.crapengineering.weebly.com), she might be able to provide the bellhousing bolt pattern, you might then be able to get the Renault pattern from John Pels and marry the two patterns to create an adapter plate.
But, why stick with the 1.8, why not grab a 2.5L from a Probe or MX6?
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Just for information, I have seen the majority of the engines mentioned in this thread fitted into Europas at Banks!
There was an S2 with a Fuego turbo engine - this conversion had been done when Fuego's where still in production so it had been installed for quite some time when I first saw it.
Variety of V6 engines including Vauxhall, Alfa Romeo and the 2.5 Mazda - The Mazda was (from memory) also fitted in Fords such as the Mondeo (suspect that the bell housing bolt pattern could actually be Ford spacing?) - never saw that particular project complete/running as the customer took the almost rolling chassis away to finish themselves...
Mazda Rotary engine - yes it fits but you may be looking at alternative (expensive!) transaxles as the power increases.
There were many other different engines fitted, most originally mounted transversely but this can usually be overcome fairly easily - chances are someone has already done it somewhere?!
Only reason for mentioning all of the above is that Richard has already been there and done the head scratching, which might also mean that he may be able to save some of you the hassle and even supply parts such as adaptor plates etc.... I saw him a few weeks ago for the first time in about 10 years and he looked well and is still doing the same thing - building Europas.