Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: Sandyman on Friday,March 15, 2019, 06:00:03 PM
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Now that I have the engine/transmission rebuild solved it's time to look at the body. I have never done any glass replacement. The left side quarter glass is missing. I have bought glass and rubber gasket from R D Enterprises. How do I install it? Do I need any other materials and tools?
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The aluminium frame has to come out (drill out the many pop rivets holding it in). The rubber first, then the triangular glass, then the vertical rubber, then the aluminium frame.
Fit new window channels and the brush strip while the frame is out.
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Thanks 4129R can you provide more detail? Where are the rivets? Do I need any sealant? I don't understand last sentence.
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There are rivets in the channel holding the chrome/aluminium coloured metal frame to the fibreglass door. You will need to drill these out without damaging the fibreglass.
You will have to expose them all by taking out the black rubber lining to the channel, which will probably fall apart and need pushing out with a narrow flat bladed screw driver.
There is a brush strip attached to the horizontal part of the frame which will need to be changed when the frame is out.
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PITA to get the cuts good. Maybe RD's are pre cut for angles though. I used small screws and nylocs to attach the bottom of the frame to the door instead of rivets. The upper stuff all rivets. I had to grind down the tip on my rivet gun to get a couple rivets in.
I used this to cut.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Multi-function-Cut-3-in-1-Power-Steel-Cutting-Tool-With-Built-In-Wire-Cutter-F1/333110518326?var=&hash=item4d8eef2236&enc=AQADAAADAFjVrDbVsZ8oH%2F8PNHtt9VX4%2Fw7FZcmMuqsX8uaFEduVDr09rtkdzbO6fyUjHb2I8dbY6SYSok6rsJrGJTDCm3PbtrCZj12TviP3h32%2FCpmnbWoBuqeooprq2keq2pdyzc55DN8Le8cY%2FcdWFSL%2BvMtGq6gccoTK7q5wju4vBYiDlgaFLLNocCyXQyGn36A0zEJAZJCxmFU0H5yUT0kl438cl8gP2%2Fo8VGSISeZrb74c6Vg1Aau6YkontCQp5FYudv9UreyIBBKf0jvdmIA5uye%2B17ZcuHHf%2BcZ4mFpE0OJwyCK4I7M8qoQ7WGl0j91oM7aFVwlUAXdpCOcUuM1NxUUc%2FsCKRrwu1C%2FWzgWD2gceQsWpPQ5U3Y%2BNH%2FqAL7HEiA93DP7kec3tYmQfAx1zLz4COYd0zFfucl9x%2Fn%2FFo47Q%2B%2BPB%2FUgsPcQCv044Fpbd4gWVGscDFm49Ilb%2F1krclkbaddGOzdFpmymfQBfEl7GVwO3XBLqTsVBs7yl03I16aOwxqMdbjtlCd10V%2B5YJJJrE%2B5bd6DDG5S%2FEIN1gYm%2FubFcLMeic%2FNX4Lp4xqHtcVlSXErZP3dimLlK0YXm13%2BGQbFddg8hK0Lsemj8C%2BLAqm%2Bsz%2BhRxhT7zqXr6Mj6kBKdE1F07DCJ6GglpB5LfvYKHQ1xZ%2FySMgyy0WFdsfCLDIaOBbRakgLDoZ10nwrysU1P0sMiibkVgaX6DVo2ZWYv%2FkbKs9TC6iqpuYd%2BHZK9NtwOYYDm5xwu3n86pJDJytA1L1xq764lQBrvuGtY1O6wZ9FDJ4mMzzRgzLNlI%2B08bgNlnTVTqaCNAXdjl%2FAq0ngBzMGByIdJSnmVIjX0RnuZ04g3Zwjfl5iy3Li%2BxRKWDq8dpjiHW2vcL9wbvgrXfam%2FsklBR6MMVp04GnvIFnX%2FsiCOz01PY6HvUhgWgvidIGCtFlCGy8h6h%2B8WhwxnLnZ8JiQYDkh9fRYIlniU%2B3sqdm4c8tP8y8iuxfjhBVgFXrnPc%2FwP1UpVNACKaO80J%2Bg%3D%3D&checksum=333110518326ef87e60163fd4a4aa3c97575a541c7bf
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Thanks for your help. Do I have to remove the power window first? The front of which seems loose. It is not attached to anything and moves 1 cm. on and out.
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The whole electric window arm and motor have to be removed to get the frame out. 4 long bolts with 7/16 heads and the electrical connections.
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A big thanks to all who responded. Drivers side windows are out. How do I reattach the mounting bracket (between the main and quarter window) to the window frame? What is the best type of sealer for between the frames and the body?
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Sorry to jump in but does anyone know where i can get a quarter glass for the drivers side in the UK? I got the passenger side from Richard but it was his last one.
John
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Welcome John, you might have better luck if you post on the classified site here.
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Sandy man, a firewall sealant the consistency of plumbers putty is all you need between the frames and body. Do not use RTV because removing the frames would then be extremely difficult. Another choice is the very sticky black sealant used on inner door panels oin newer cars but I don’t know what it’s called.
Dakazman
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Thanks, any product names?
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The plumbers putty is for sinks and Lowe’s has it . also you can use window glaze . The others I mentioned are super expensive
Google firewall sealant,
PRC desoto stays plyable
https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwiR3oGFkI3hAhWDi8gKHX5KAaAYABApGgJxdQ&ae=1&ohost=www.google.com&cid=CAASEuRoTxm-2l4Ft8oUPpuvbKs_Xw&sig=AOD64_2t-n0allCKrXR6BKkcGq37O9TXbA&ctype=5&q=&ved=2ahUKEwi6mfyEkI3hAhVmleAKHRicA-MQwg96BAgLEGc&adurl=https://pilotshq.com/cytec-dapco-2100-primerless-silicone-firewall-sealant-6oz-p-14594.html%3Fgclid%3DEAIaIQobChMIkd6BhZCN4QIVg4vICh1-SgGgEAQYFSABEgKFu_D_BwE
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There is a quarter glass for sale on ebay. I don’t think it istinted
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Sandy man, I like to practice what I preach so I pulled out my window trim and played around with the window glazing putty . It sticks readily to the aluminum frame and I believe I will use it there.
It seems I need to install the door pull and linkage first and I just ordered all new seals and felt strips so I’ll be right there with you. One other thing, I missed sanding down the top trim of the channel that rests on the door so another thing to do.
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Important fyi. The window frames are hard coat anodized. If you polish/sand through it, the color will be different because of the difference in color of the anodizing and the base aluminum. If you need to get it anodized, it is very expensive because of stripping stripping the old anodizing, polishing thebase aluminum and then hard coat anodizing. Unfortunately, I know this from my exprrience and it cost around $750 to get them shiny and scratch free again.
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Dazaksman, love the Florida sun gleaming off that very shiny door! Pulled the felt strip at back of door. Found 2 more rivets, left my drill and bits at work. HE (double hockey sticks!). Oh well put oil pan and rocker cover on instead.
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Pfreen, you are correct they are a different color until you completely remove all the anodized layers but with all the deep scratches I had no other choice except to paint . So I sanded until all the defects were removed but buffed out the same way you buff stainless, except for the rouge of course. Stainless has green rouge, aluminum red and white. It’s just another avenue the will require work down the road and softer but I like to buff.
Dakazman
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I just wanted to let people know. Mine were in fairly good shape and I was just polishing them on a wheel. Unfortuneately, I went too deep.
Live and learn.
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Aluminum side window frame is out. Yeah. The inner sweep has become detached from the frame what is the best way to reattach?
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What do you mean by the inner sweep?
If is is the small piece of aluminium that is pop riveted on the top flat bit of the door, they all do that and it is not an important connection for the frame.
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4129R, sorry my computer is broken and I can't resize pictures. I am talking about the aluminum piece that spans the window frame and sits on the inner side of the door. The weld in one end of this piece has broken.
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Best way to reattach is TIG welding. I tried epoxy once, but it doesn't hold up long.
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Those tabs all break off.
I think out of the 14 doors I have stripped, only 1 had the tab still attached.
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Thanks swiftdb4. Another trip to my Machinist.
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I’m trying to get my windows back in right now also. What is the best sequence for butting the windows and frames back in the door? I am assuming that the main frame with the roll up window in it, goes in before the quarter glass assembly. Should I leave the main assembly loose before trying to install the quarter glass, or rivet it in place. I am having trouble getting the “H” channel molding between the back of the quarter glass and the main glass frame. What is the trick?
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Rubber channel in frame.
Drill holes through rubber where the old pop rivet holes were.
Horizontal brush strips on to frame.
Glass in frame.
Frame in door, loose.
Triangle rubber 2 corner bits in.
Triangular glass in.
Partition vertical rubber in.
Pop rivet frame in place.
Seal frame to door with mastic.
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That method seems right, but I found that I had to hold my mouth just right and choose an appropriate chant the help it go in. Oh and dish soap.
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The hard part is getting the pop riveter to work in the window channels. I had to grind the sides off the pip riveter nozzle to get it to fit in the channel.
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Im right there with you but decided to install the door lock mechanisms first but forgot to order new seals for the pulls and lock assembly when i ordered the rubber guides and fuzzies. Putting on hold for now.,plenty more to do.
Dakazman
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The hardest part for me was how to trim thequarter glass rubber so the miters looks good and the relief at the back at the back of bottom quarter lite seal.
Hopefully you have the old seals as a pattern.
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The quarter glass was missing when I got the car. R D Enterprises came through with a good used one. I am thinking of using the frame as a template for the rubber.
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I had riveted the frame to the door and then put the molding into the slot over the rivets. That might be where I’m getting my binding. Thanks for the run through!
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Got my passenger glass in today! Much easier with the help of this thread! Thanks for the help guys!
I’m still concerned that the windows are too snug for the window motors to move them. I’ll keep working on getting them looser. Any wisdom to send my way?
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The window motors are quite strong, being very low geared.
The problem is if they won't go down and the motor rips the metal channel off the bottom of the glass.
If the channels are too tight, make sure the heads of the rivets have not got bits of the rivet steel pin sticking out of the aluminium rivet.
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Good to know that the motors are strong. I was assuming that they wouldn’t be! Also good to know that the mounting channel could be a weak spot, I can move the windows using just the channels, so I might be OK.
I’ll double check the rivet heights. Thanks!
Sorry if I have hijacked this thread! Hopefully I am looking for the same answers that Sandyman needed!
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You have been very helpful Sofa King. Glad you have got yours in. I am going to follow 4129Rs advice and drill out the felt window channel where the rivets go in.
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You have been very helpful Sofa King. Glad you have got yours in. I am going to follow 4129Rs advice and drill out the felt window channel where the rivets go in.
I found it easier to put the felt in, drill the holes, put the glass in, put the frame in, then pop rivet through the holes in the felt.
Putting the felt in after the frame is riveted in place is possible, but I found it easier the other way.
Yes you may see the pop rivet holes in the felt, but who is looking? Only visible when the glass is down.
Plus the holes in the felt does not bump over the rivet.
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Also did latch fibreglass repair. Waiting for frame to come back from welder.
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The window motors are powerful but the wiring and switches limit the current, thus the motor torque. I installed relays to supply higher current and save the switches from burning out due to the high current. Also, silicone spray in the channel helps. One other thing to check is that the window channel felt is fully “home” in the aluminum channel.
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At least you can get something done on your car!!
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The window motors are powerful but the wiring and switches limit the current, thus the motor torque. I installed relays to supply higher current and save the switches from burning out due to the high current. Also, silicone spray in the channel helps. One other thing to check is that the window channel felt is fully “home” in the aluminum channel.
I've heard of people using relays for all their switched circuits. I think it's a great idea. Can you provide a diagram for how to wire it up? I'm having a hard time getting my head around how to use them with the switches that swap polarity.
edit: also, where did you put them?
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The window on the passengers side is down 1/2 inch. I put power to the terminals, no movement or noise. Any thoughts?
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I assume at this point, you tested the motor before installing it and greased the runner at the bottom of the window glass, and the window is not binding in the runners. If you took the mechanism apart, you may not have given enough spring tension. You should assemble it so that spring is wound to give the maximum help in lifting the window.
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This side never came out. I guess it should remove it and test it.
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If the motor isn't good, I wouldn't sweat it. I believe motors are readily available.
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Thanks for all the help. I took the passenger window motor out and applied a shock to it. (hammer and current) It seems to be working fine outside the door. I will grease her and put her back tomorrow after work.
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The window motors are powerful but the wiring and switches limit the current, thus the motor torque. I installed relays to supply higher current and save the switches from burning out due to the high current. Also, silicone spray in the channel helps. One other thing to check is that the window channel felt is fully “home” in the aluminum channel.
I've heard of people using relays for all their switched circuits. I think it's a great idea. Can you provide a diagram for how to wire it up? I'm having a hard time getting my head around how to use them with the switches that swap polarity.
edit: also, where did you put them.
This sketch I found and it shows how to wire the relays. I used weatherproof relays I bought through ebay.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-Pack-OLS-40-30-Amp-Waterproof-Relay-Switch-Harness-Set-12V-DC-5-Pin-SPDT-12/382829584205?_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131003132420%26meid%3D82b23520dbb747dabad0982e4985b0f6%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D153436244034%26itm%3D382829584205&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851
I mounted 2 per door, in the door close to the motor. I also ran a 14 gage 12volt supply and 14 gage ground wire. It works great.
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Thanks Pfreen!
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This wiring diagram is making my head hurt. Do you now have to ground/earth the window rocker switch? It looks different than the wiring diagram on the Ebay site. It shows up when you click on the picture and click over to the other pictures.
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Just quickly looking at the diagram Pfreen posted, the window switches get wired as they were from factory. Power in (Brown wire) and power out (one for up and one for down). The relays takes place of the motor in terms of stock wiring, power in one side and ground the other side. The relay gets it's own power in and power out to the motor. The motor still requires a ground to complete the circuit, you can ground the relay (switch side) to the same ground if you mount the relays in the door.
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Hi Roddy, Could you compare the sketch with the wiring diagram on the Ebay add? If you click on the picture it allows you to scroll right to wiring diagrams. The sketch appears to copy the diagram for a grounded switch. 2 pictures later there is a diagram for a powered switch. What do you think? Thanks for your time.
Sandy
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Sandyman,
Attached is the relay wiring stolen from the Ebay listing. The wire from the switch goes to terminal 86, terminal 85 goes to ground, 87 goes to the window motor using the terminal that the switch wire went to, terminal 30 gets its own power (should be fused to prevent burning cars down). The window motor is grounded in the usual fashion but as Pfreens comment, it can use a 14 ga wire. If you mount the relays in the door, then you can ground the relay terminal 85 with the window motor ground. If you were to mount the relays in the car, then ground terminal 85 to somewhere that's already grounded and have the window motor ground, again, in it's usual fashion.
Rod
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So you agree with me that the sketch having the car window switch going to the other terminal won't work?
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Posts 85 and 86 reversed in sketch.
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Thanks pfreen , roddymac, I will definitely add that in.
Dakazman
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Posts 85 and 86 reversed in sketch.
Does it really matter? 85 & 86 is part of the energizing circuit. One side is power and the other is ground. Switching them shouldn't matter.
edit: looking at the schematic for the relay, I see an area for confusion because it calls for a hot wire to be connected to 30 which Pfreen doesn't use. I'm assuming that isn't strictly necessary (or am I just showing my ignorance?).
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You'r right BDA why should we follow wiring diagrams from engineers. Its only classics we (non electrical engineers) restore. Sorry for the rant but I saw a difference and just wanted to point it out.
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I’m using an after market switch kit on mine. I understand the bennifits of the relay slowing you to use a larger wire to power the motor and put less strain on the switch, but aren’t we limited by the gauge of the wires going into the motor? I am using a 12 ga ground wire, but I’m using wires of a similar gauge to the factory wires to and from the switches and to the motors.
Since I shaved my door handles, I am using door poppers instead of a mechanical linkage. I had a major problem with the puller solenoids being strong enough to work the latches. I send from 45 to 60 to 100 lb solenoids. Even the 100 pounders didn’t work until I went to 10 ha wire for power and ground! I can see the same issue happening with the window motors, but we will always have the bottleneck if the stock wires into the motors. I’m not an engineer... am I missing something?
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edit: looking at the schematic for the relay, I see an area for confusion because it calls for a hot wire to be connected to 30 which Pfreen doesn't use. I'm assuming that isn't strictly necessary (or am I just showing my ignorance?).
Jim,
Pfreen does have a hot lead to 30 it in his diagram, he's showing it coming from the fuse box. The Ebay diagram has an extra terminal, 87A, which goes unused.
Just think of the relay as a switch controlled by a switch. The relay can handle more power, that's all. And I don't think reversing 85 & 86 will do any harm, as you stated they just control the "switch" part of the relay.
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You're obviously right, Roddy, and I missed the 30 in Pfreen's diagram that was even more obviously there. Yikes!!