Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: 1970EuropaGuy on Tuesday,January 29, 2019, 09:27:50 AM
-
I'm cleaning up some bad fibreglass work done by the PO to stop cracks in the front fenders. At this point I'm grinding down to clean glass and adding a couple layers of new mesh to strengthen the area.
Am I correct in assuming that the butchering was done at some point due to wheel rub? Anyone have an original photo of this area?
-
I'm not entirely sure what you're looking for but I've attached some pictures of my car.
As for fixing that crack, you would cut out the crack, grind it thin on both sides and fill with mat and filler if necessary.
-
Thanks BDA. Your car looks similar to mine. For now I'm only going to patch from the back. I'm hoping to get a really good colour match on the paint this summer and do some touch up.
-
I have patched small cracks from the back only and then filled in the crack with filler and painted. It worked fine but that was on my race car. It may work for you but a proper fix would be glassed front and back.
edit: I forgot to mention that after cutting out the crack, you should make some "band aids" our of aluminum or similar sheet and pop rivet or use sheet metal screws to align the edges. After glassing the back side, you take the band aids off and glass the front. You probably knew this but I thought in case you didn't I would mention it.
-
What size front tires are or were on the car? I'm thinking that 185/60 or wider tires will cause rubbing or actual cracking of the inner wheel well area which if severe enough will crack the out side of the fender. It's happened to two of my S2s. You can check for tire to fender contact by turning the the front wheel to full lock and have somebody press down on the corner of the body and check for contact. The PO of my S2 was aware of the issue and cut out the inner fender lip where the tire was rubbing. Unfortunately running Toyo R888 185/6013 tires there is still some rubbing and the drivers side front fender now has a small crack and a big chip.
-
When I purchased the car it had old 155/70 tires. I presently have 175/70 on it.
I'm guess that at some point one the previous owners had wider tires that were rubbing.
-
As already mentioned, the lip looks to have been trimmed back for extra clearance on larger wheels/tyres.
The crack could well be due to contact from a larger wheel/tyre but could also be due to a lack of the metal closing plate that supports the front body - rear edge of the radiator compartment to front edge of chassis (i have seen a fair few Europas with cracks across the front arches due to flex from the closing plate not being fitted). - they also rot so it could have been caused when an original one failed...?
Are you chamfering the glass away from the crack so that the deepest point of the new material is effectively where the crack is/was?
-
Looking at that last picture it occurs to me that, as well as repairing the crack and checking the closing plate, you should rebuild the lip where it has been ground down to restore some tensile strength to the arch. It looks as though the crack was caused by tension pulling the two sides of the wheel arch apart - and with the missing lip structure it didn't have enough strength to resist. The important thing in repairing the lip then is to include plenty of long fibers oriented around the perimeter, or lip, of the wheel arch. The long fibers will carry the load in tension. Chopped strand mat doesn't do a good job here, so woven cloth would be better. You can get woven tapes that may be a bit easier to work with than wide cloth.
-
Thanks all for the great info. The closing plate is missing on my car. I'm assuming it's just a sheet of steel? What thickness?
At this point I'm only laying up glass mat on the inside, hopefully to stabilize the cracking which doesn't appear to be getting worse. I'll add a few extra layers to the lip.
-
70, the thickness of the close outs don't need to be steel or very thick. The entire w/w is probably only 1/8 thick glass fiber.
On the repair, place aluminum tape to the outside skin tape to protect the painted surface. Later you can cut into your inner repair to complete the repair at your leisure.
Dakazman
-
The closing plate has a slight kink across it width ways (from memory as its been a while since i was underneath!!) to allow it to change from the level the body is at to the bottom edge of the chassis and the front to rear edges (sides) are folded 90 degrees to give a little more rigidity.
You could get away with putting a flat sheet in place as a temporary measure if you are using the car regularly...?!
-
There's a drawing of the closing plate here.
http://www.lotus-europa.com/manuals/misc/Closing%20Plate%20Europa%20S2.pdf
-
Great information. Time to get back to work!
-
Oops, that close out. I thought you meant the close out to the door pin area.
Dakazman
-
The drawing that I linked to appears to show the thickness of the closing plate as 3/8 inch. Can that be right? My car is also missing the closing plate, so I can't check, but 3/8" seems far too heavy. Not very Lotus-like.
This diagram of the TC closing plate indicates 17 or 18 gauge. Big difference.
http://www.lotus-europa.com/manuals/files/tc_closing_plate/closing_plate.pdf
-
The closing plate has a slight kink across it width ways (from memory as its been a while since i was underneath!!) to allow it to change from the level the body is at to the bottom edge of the chassis and the front to rear edges (sides) are folded 90 degrees to give a little more rigidity.
You could get away with putting a flat sheet in place as a temporary measure if you are using the car regularly...?!
I use about 4mm thick ally sheet. No folds necessary and lighter, but not in Chunky's budget.
-
I think the 3/8 refers to the fold on the sides.
Might fabricate one out of aluminum, 1/8 inch thick should be enough?
-
I measured mine at about 1/16" thick. I got it with my Spyder frame (pre-space frame style) but I suspect it's pretty similar to the original. It has a chassis punched hole about two inches in diameter for draining water. Other than that hole and a lip on either side for stiffness, mine is flat. I think, like a a lot of things on Europas, you have a fair amount of latitude in replicating this part.
-
Oh yes, 1970EuropaGuy, the 3/8" is the height of the folds at the sides. It makes sense now.
-
I would include the folded edges if you are fabricating your own as the rigidity gained from them would make a fair difference - remember that the body end of the plate is fixing into fairly thin fibreglass (that is quite a few years old now!) and the bolts, even with repair washers to spread the load, are all that is transferring the loads into the plate...
Also, aluminium for the plate is ok providing the gauge is increased but remember that it doesn't like being in close proximity to steel and vice versa - anyone with a Land Rover will know all about what happens in a surprisingly short amount of time...!
-
Also, aluminium for the plate is ok providing the gauge is increased but remember that it doesn't like being in close proximity to steel and vice versa - anyone with a Land Rover will know all about what happens in a surprisingly short amount of time...!
What about steel bolts into cast aluminium? That's what holds the gearbox to the engine.
-
What about steel bolts into cast aluminium? That's what holds the gearbox to the engine.
Zinc plated steel bolts. It would be a bigger problem without the zinc, I think.
-
Footnote
formed from 17 ga stainless steel (original is probably 18 ga mild steel)
all holes (7) are 0.275”
Dakazman
-
I hadn't thought about the aluminum steel reaction. Good point.
I'll source some stainless.
-
3/8” is dimensions of the folded edge, not the material.
-
The drawing that I linked to appears to show the thickness of the closing plate as 3/8 inch. Can that be right? My car is also missing the closing plate, so I can't check, but 3/8" seems far too heavy. Not very Lotus-like.
This diagram of the TC closing plate indicates 17 or 18 gauge. Big difference.
http://www.lotus-europa.com/manuals/files/tc_closing_plate/closing_plate.pdf
I'm pretty sure the 3/8" dimension on the first drawing is the height of the fold on each edge of the plate for stiffening.
-
I think the 3/8" is referring to the strengthening lip at either end of the plate, not the sheet thickness.
I made mine from 1.2mm 304 stainless, plenty strong enough, will never rust and most importantly it looks shiny.... ;)
Edit to add....
whoops, that's what you get for immediately clicking "reply" without checking for another page !
-
Your correct europaTC.and others.
The confusion is that there are 3 seperate drawings posted on this thread .
Closing_plate
closing plate europa S-2-1
Closing plate europa S 2
Dimensions are all the same. Only the Closing_plate has the footnotes on the material type and thicknesses.
Gauge size.
As for bolts , always use antisieze lubricant on all bolts and nuts. I like silver goop on aluminum high temp and other areas.
Dakazman
-
What size front tires are or were on the car? I'm thinking that 185/60 or wider tires will cause rubbing or actual cracking of the inner wheel well area which if severe enough will crack the out side of the fender. It's happened to two of my S2s. You can check for tire to fender contact by turning the the front wheel to full lock and have somebody press down on the corner of the body and check for contact. The PO of my S2 was aware of the issue and cut out the inner fender lip where the tire was rubbing. Unfortunately running Toyo R888 185/6013 tires there is still some rubbing and the drivers side front fender now has a small crack and a big chip.
I've cracked the lip of the front wheel arch, directly above the centre-line of the wheel and tire, a couple of times. My original wheel-well closing plates are present. In my case it takes just a sharp bump, like the bump between the road and my driveway, with the wheels turned, and the top of the tire can contact the lip. I try to take this kind of situation slowly.
The original steel wheels on an S2 were 13x4-1/2 inches with an offset of 1-9/16 inch. The original tires were 155x13 and had a tread width of about 4 inches. I still have one, a Dunlop SP. There was no number for the profile but I believe it was 82 on tires of this period. A 155/82x13 tire has a height of 5.0 inches and a rolling diameter of 23.0 inches. I'm running 165/70x13 Michelins on the front on 5-1/2 inch rims with an offset of 1-5/8 inch. These tires have a tread width of about 5 inches, are 4-1/2 inches high, and have a rolling diameter of just over 22 inches. The wheels alone have the effect of pushing the outside of the tire 9/16 of an inch further out than the originals. Add half an inch for the greater tread width, and it seems to me that the outside of my tread is roughly an inch further out than the originals would have been, though the gap between the tread and the wheel arch should be a 1/2 inch greater than original.
Have my front springs settled half an inch over the years? Quite likely. That, and the increased width of my wheel/tire combination are likely the villains when it comes to my tires nibbling the lip of the wheel arch.
These tires rub slightly on the inside of the wheel-wells at full lock, more noticeably in reverse than going slowly forwards, and more noticeably with a passenger than with me alone. I think the villain here is simply the wider tires.