Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: dakazman on Monday,May 22, 2017, 06:32:32 AM
-
After years of sitting in my garage and working on it from time to time, first part going back on.
I sorted thru bags of parts , engine 821-30( needs liners ,need some help locating ) suspension,
Interior, body etc.. a lot of parts here .
Lol just found out last time I posted on yahoo was back in 2007...time flies.
Posted pictures on yahoo / 0453r reassembly/ dakazman
First part - steering rack.
This will be my log.
Dakazman
Dave Kaczmarek
-
Since I didn't see your first post, :Welcome: Dave!
I'm looking forward to seeing your progress. Working on the rack is pretty straight forward. The manual says that when you install the tie rods, they should take seven or so pounds to move - I'm not sure of the wording but I think you get the idea. They aren't kidding. I thought if they were tight enough to be snug but free swinging, it would be ok. I was wrong. I rebuilt the rack again and just guessed at how tight they were - envisioning the force to lift a gallon of water - and it worked fine, but a spring scale is the preferred method of testing it.
Good luck!
-
:Welcome: Welcome to the forum, Dave. Looking forward to seeing your project come alive. Cheers.
-
While the parts were ready to hang, bolts needed replacement so off to buy some stainless steel
ones from lowes, well one sheared off with only being snugged up.
I see they were made in China. 😭. So off to a hardware store to find some American grade 5 bolts.
I also used some anti seize on the leg thru mounts since that is where a lot of corrosion was.
The bolts are 3 3/8 x 1/4 28tpi . Some minor hiccup was setting the angle of the steering column , which was not in the maintenance manual, just the 11/16 sparring.
Well pictures to come when I get a chance to resize them in a windows computer.
Tried to resize in photoshop express on an apple 6 plus, but no help wouldn't load .
Dakazman
-
Yup, hardware store SS bolts are crap: cosmetic use only.
-
OK posting some Pics>>>
Dakazman
-
Pretty! I especially like the steering rack! Too bad you won't be able to see it when the car's put back together.
-
Do I see a can of never seize ? If so, you are doing it right!
-
Also hung the motor mounts , some brake lines, starting on trailing arms.
Maybe inner shifter linkage next. Object to clear off rack .
I need to start ordering parts next ,the racing bushing kit from rd.
More pics to come ,
Dakazman
-
It's great you're working on her, I haven't touched either of mine for 8 years, been busy with lots of projects and getting old. I do have spare parts, been collecting since 1974.
Whit
TC 2098R & S1 0478
-
:Welcome: Whit! Hopefully one of your projects isn't getting old! :)
-
Getting old here also...black is what I'm going for , almost finished my el Camino.
Looks like finding a donor car for an 821-30 engine will be rough. Selling my Mazda 13 b engine on eBay now complete with eec and complete harness. Air box ,dash, oil cooler,ac unit,etc. I was going to go with a Kennedy hookup but changed my mind. Probably because of the swap to a dual turbo setup.
Dakazman
-
Do I see a can of never seize ? If so, you are doing it right!
Certified lotus, yes it is...good eyes.
Lived in that area for many year,does Watchung sound familiar?
Great driving roads up there.
Dakazman
-
Hopefully one of your projects isn't getting old!
Who's the dope who said that? Everybody knows your first project is to keep getting older!
Oh, that was me! Oops!
Don't be a stranger, Whit, and hopefully you'll be young enough to enjoy your Europas for a long time!
-
Do I see a can of never seize ? If so, you are doing it right!
Certified lotus, yes it is...good eyes.
Lived in that area for many year,does Watchung sound familiar?
Great driving roads up there.
Dakazman
Ahhh, you know the area. Yes great driving roads right out of my driveway. A friend of mine and I went driving in our Elan's yesterday and he said the same thing.
-
Going back to 1970 there was a lotus Europa dealership on Rt 22 in Scotch Plains, N.J.
That is where I saw my first time, purchased my basket case in 1985. Disassembled and striped,
Repaired all the spiderwebs in glass some time ago but it got pushed to the back burner.
Well more pics to come ,
Dakazman
-
That was Tom's Pit Stop in Scotch Plains, where I bought my TC in 1974.
I grew up (?) in Stirling, and went to WHRHS.
-
Tom's Pit Stop is where I saw my first Europa. I think I was 11 or 12 at the time. I grew up in Plainfield and would ride my bike to Tom's. I've always wanted a Europa ever since. Finally bought one this year.
-
I also wanted a Europa since I was a kid. Was looking seriously in 2005 when the local Lotus dealer (Sports and Specialist Cars) convinced me to buy a new Elise instead. Went thru that phase of "new" Lotus' and finally decided I still wanted a Europa. So here I am in the midst of my frame off rebuild.
My friend Ted had both an Elise and a JPS Europa (lucky guy)
-
Hey certified. Great pictures of Teds Bookends.
Cwtech and Brian , right Toms pit stop...he would have several on the front lawn.
Small world.
Dakazman
-
At first, I thought the Elise was way to garish for me, but I've warmed up to it. I got a chance to sit in one a while back. I expected it to be a bit difficult, but I didn't expect it to be nearly impossible. It would have been much easier with the top off, but the hard top was installed. It probably took a couple of minutes to get in. Once in, it was ok. Getting out wasn't trivial either. They're interesting cars but there's no danger of my getting one. On the other hand, an Elan... (by why not a Miata?)
-
busy week here,
progress report. pictures first heater /defrost box rebuild
-
ok some radius arm stuff also cleaned...but bushing for wishbones cam in and 2 engines from California coming
an 821-30 wedge and an 843 hemi.
dakazman
-
also dug out the box with my interior parts ...
talk to you all next week>>>
busy,
dakazman
-
Great progress! If you decide to get a new dash, I would recommend Prestige AutoWood (http://www.prestigeautowood.com/). I don't have any interest in his business, but he does great work!
-
Hey guys Great week , I received two motors from a great guy from California
A hemi and a wedge . Trying to find a good machinists ... had a simple job so I thought was to cut the rear drums and the front rotors but was turned away because there is no written Specs on this in the maintenance manual. Frustrating....
-
Rotor are cheap, stupid cheap. Just buy new ones. Same as a Spitfire.
Drums are the same as a GT6. Early GT6 for the S1/2 and TC (1.25"), late GT6 for the TCS (1.5"). A little harder to find and they are not balanced when you do. Trust me, get them balanced.
If the drum is not scored, you can just sand them. The problem with turning the drums is that when you get the big cuts (no more than 0.060"), the shoes no longer fit well. In the old days, we would arc the shoes to suit but there are not many shops so equipped these days.
-
Thanks ordered front rotors , may go with the upgrade and put discs on back .
I'll check back with progress and pics soon
Dakazman
-
Still working on numerous parts, but I received a 843 hemi crossflow engine and need some help ordering parts and identifying engine. I see mecaparts has some parts I believe but find it hard to navigate the site. Any help would be appreciated
Thank
Dakazman
-
These two pdfs go into what fits where with the Renault crossflow engines:
http://www.lotus-europa.com/manuals/s1misc/PFEngineering.pdf
http://www.lotus-europa.com/manuals/s1misc/s1hemi.pdf
843s use the same bearings, etc but use different sleeves with an o-ring seal.
-
Thanks , here's some more pics
-
I see it is an 843 but how do we determine the - #...
13/15/17 gordini is labeled , gordini.?
Dakazman
-
Only early 807 engines had the high compression, large valves and large ports that people associate with a "Gordini" engine -- BTW, Gordini actually had nothing to do with the 8-- series engines. An 843 can be brought up to "Gordini" spec by fitting larger valves, porting the head, fitting h-c pistons, etc.
-
My 821-30 engines also coming along and getting it ready for machinist, but I need to order gasket for liners , paper type. The shop will set the liners and send out cranks and cams. yes 2 each of the 821's.
Heads now completely torn down and accessing conditions. The original engine block will be reinstalled with parts from both. Only after rebuild will I consider undertaking the 843 , but will start looking for the parts.
-
Just finished the headlight assemblies and decorated garage. Lol
-
Other items in work...paint on the corvette and el Camino.
-
That will keep you off the streets!
-
Just received an original air cleaner and was wondering if anyone could tell me what an original cutout looks like. Or PDF an drawing of a tracing😁
Thanks in advance
Dakazman
-
Finished the lower plate in the air cleaner and readied new plate for welding back in.
On a separate note purchased a rear luggage compartment found on eBay after 25 years
It needed a few repairs but coming along. Other items completed were radiator fan assembly and demister fan
-
As stated earlier I finally found a tray for aft compartment, here some pics of
The progress of filling all the holes and cracks. Primed today and I will post those soon.
Wheel wells and tunnel pics and progress. Wheel well undercoating was terrible to remove.
Newer Honda wheel well material will be attached to keep road noise down.
-
Body in prime.
Dakazman
-
Also front turn indicators need to be redone because they were glassed with fabric and they are
Lopsided. So I made the inserts and will install correctly this week.
Dakazman
-
Looks like a lot of work ahead of you! Thanks for the pictures! Keep them coming!
-
Wow! You've really been on a roll. Looking great!
-
New turn signal holders. Rought install.
Dakazman
-
I wish they had put them there originally.
-
Great work! You have nice momentum and that is what keeps a project moving.
-
My momentum is because of the help and information I get from all the talented people here.
All glass work except interior dash and firewall done. My firewall will be removable from interior so that fuel cells can be accessed easier. Lol maybe even smuggler’s compartments .
The longer ,cleaner , lines from front view are undisputable😀, however I believe it is weaker, so no sitting please.
Dakazman
-
:BEER3:
I just primed my baby I couldn’t stand the engine compartment and spare tire are so I prepared that for paint also 80 hours later this is what it looks like.
Dakazman
-
Missed one😀
-
Oooh, that looks nice! Well done! Can you come over and prep mine?
-
She's looking great! Do I remember correctly that you'll be running a Renault motor? What size tires will you be running?
-
I saw a thread on tire size and they are on my list to buy.
I have panasport 13x8 for rear and 13x7 rims for front.
Hopefully soon I’ll get to rolling frame around . Waiting for rear bearings from
Kelvedon lotus which is next on my buy list.
Dakazman
-
BDA, yes,Renault original stock 821-30 engine.
Dakazman
-
Blocking it out is going nicely, these pictures are the wet look.
Dakazman
-
Very nice! Don't forget to reinforce the upper corners of the windscreen area.
-
I am in admiration of people who do their own body work.
-
Thanks Bda and certified. I read about those reinforcements and thought it sounded like a good idea.
I will respray primer and add contrast agent to paint before sanding again.
Then getting back to glassing dash support back in and building firewall.
Thanks certified for the pictures.
Dakazman
-
Dry guide coat applied . Blocking shows some low spots but overall
Coming along nicely. The guide coat is great stuff and takes the
Guess work out and poor eye sight . Lol. Just good and bad.
Looks like 1 or two more coats of primer.
The weather finally in mid 70s and dry ,perfect for painting.
Dakazman
-
Dash support back in , rear and rearluggage bin prepped .
Washed again and ready for more primer tomorrow
I need some ideas for firewalls preferably removable.
Material and location? Also is my favorite glass mixing tray
Lol it cleans up easy after drying just bend and it’s clean.
Dakazman
-
Great progress, Dakazman!
It seems the usual material used for new firewalls is marine grade plywood covered in fiberglass. I'm not aware of anybody making a removable firewall but some people make a door for access to the front of the engine.
-
Great progress, Dakazman!
It seems the usual material used for new firewalls is marine grade plywood covered in fiberglass. I'm not aware of anybody making a removable firewall but some people make a door for access to the front of the engine.
I used 12mm ply, covered with fibreglass when replacing the soaked thick cardboard originally used.
Richard at Banks said he just glass fibre covers any bad original firewall. That is what I plan to do to 4129R this weekend.
As it is a "firewall", any removable panel should not compromise the passage of flame/smoke. Difficult to seal the perimeter of the removable bit.
-
Well done again!
How about Aerogel insulation sheets? My only concern is that Aerogel itself is hygroscopic but I think when it’s impregnated into sheets it isn’t much of a problem. Different types sheeting are available depending on the level of thermal performance required.
-
I sandwiched the original firewall with .030 aluminum then aluminum honeycomb heat shield.
-
I sandwiched the original firewall with .030 aluminum then aluminum honeycomb heat shield.
Now that is a FIREwall! :)
-
I sandwiched the original firewall with .030 aluminum then aluminum honeycomb heat shield.
Not exactly “adding lightness” :FUNNY:
-
I sandwiched the original firewall with .030 aluminum then aluminum honeycomb heat shield.
That is a masterpiece 😀👍
That’s where I was leaning, aluminum and aircraft mechanics get along nicely. I only have a beef with getting to the fuel tank/ tanks. When I purchased the car the fuel tank was cut out of the bottom of the car. I am not going thru that repair again so that’s why I will split your design into 3 pieces.
Aluminum t- channel uprights and glass angle around perimeter.
PS taking the day off . 😄 Became a Grandfather for the forth time last night
To a baby girl , Madison.
Dakazman
-
Congratulations on your granddaughter, dakazman!
-
Dakazman,
Congratulations to you and your family!
Mark
-
Thank you
Baby and first time mommy healthy and doing fine😀.
Dakazman
-
The alum and the heat shield only added around 5 pounds. Very light weight stuff
-
I like the look and layout of he heat shield material. Is the aluminum sheet on the engine side or under the heat shield? I’m assuming it’s on the engine side , hence the word sandwich.
The original “firewall” straw type sound board for material left much to be desired at least in my
Vechicle. Your addition is the closest to a true firewall.
Dakazman
-
A fiberglass car will burn so quickly it doesn’t really matter what you add to the “firewall”. If you detect a fire in your car, get out! And fast.
How do I know? I’ve seen two Lotus Exige’s burn at the track. Even a complete fire suppression system in one didn’t stop it from burning.
All I’m adding to my “firewall” is a sheet of heat insulation on the engine side as I took out the old horse hair mat. It will be lighter.
Congrats on being a grandfather (again)!
-
Thanks certified,
I held back on stating that. Its not that I believe it is a firewall but just a barrier for
Carbon monoxide, dirt , dust, water , fire , sound.
Dakazman
-
After reading a pfd by Dave on firewall I have a new approach.
See pic 1 , view from engine compartment. Glass flanges going on.
Secondly, final black going on see bonnet. Bring up the level of engine compartment and front luggage compartment and spare tire area.
Dakazman
-
Thanks for the pictures, dakazman! That black looks great and it sounds like you have some interesting ideas about your firewall. I'm looking forward to pictures of it when you're done!
-
I used a lightweight 5mm thick honeycombe fibreglassed on both sides bonded into the body then a thin sheet of aluminium alloy riveted on the engine side
-
Thanks buzzer and bad.
Primed the body / front and back luggage trays, the front was terrible, so many small divers in glass
Engine compartment looking good the black is 9900 base black , any other black looks light in it .
The bad part is it needs to be cleared 30 minutes after spraying . Cleanup on two guns afterward, is well worth it . The cardboard cutouts were for my perspective of a clean compartment. The firewall will still be in its original place. The addition of two removable side engine panels will hide a lot of unfinished areas. I placed the fuel tank in and took measurements of the panel behind seat .
Dakazman
-
First coat of paint and clear on luggage compartment.
Forward compartment ,engine compartment and spare tire area coming along ..
I can’t stop .. helppppppp.
Dakazman
-
Progress is addictive! It feels good! Keep going!
-
Ok firewall supports installed and the panels coming along.
Then on the lighter side , are there drain holes in the forward
Luggage compartment and if not should I add two?
Dakazman
-
The front luggage compartment is supposed to be dry so you can put luggage in there!
-
Then on the lighter side , are there drain holes in the forward
Luggage compartment and if not should I add two?
to follow on from BDA, not only will the front compartment probably be the driest part on your Lotus (don't laugh, "Dry" and "Lotus" can work together :) ) but it's also supposed to be sealed around the edges to act as a plenum chamber to pressurise the fresh air and heater vents into the car. So in theory anything other than the blower inlet and cabin outlets would reduce the efficiency of the design (now you can laugh.... ;) )
Brian
-
Thanks guys, I was just wondering how dry it stays. I saw the seals and gaskets in many pictures
But the monsoons we get here I thought it might be a good idea to check with others who actually drive their car. I also found I forgot to add the drain under the headlight assemblies .
Dakazman
-
It stays dry because of the lip in the bodyshell around the edges. As long as you have a decent gasket in the compartment lock you will be fine.
But talking of leaks from that end of the car I did have an odd one where the lock fits into the bodyshell just below the windscreen. There should be a little rubber moulding behind the metal plate/slot into the bulkhead which seals the interior and mine had worn away over the years. Water drips down the bodywork, lands on the locking plate from the lock mechanism and then wanders inside your car - a Lotus is always interesting.....
-
But talking of leaks from that end of the car I did have an odd one where the lock fits into the bodyshell just below the windscreen. There should be a little rubber moulding behind the metal plate/slot into the bulkhead which seals the interior and mine had worn away over the years. Water drips down the bodywork, lands on the locking plate from the lock mechanism and then wanders inside your car - a Lotus is always interesting.....
I always wondered why that black rubber was there. Mystery explained.
Another mystery is an aluminium plate on the edge of the bonnet (hood) opening just by the radiator fan. It was only fitted to 1974 models.
-
That was to keep water from draining from the rain gutter on to the fan motor. The US club, Lotus Ltd., used to sell them back in the day. I suppose they or something similar was sold in the UK also.
-
That was to keep water from draining from the rain gutter on to the fan motor. The US club, Lotus Ltd., used to sell them back in the day. I suppose they or something similar was sold in the UK also.
Thanks for the explanation.
All that extra weight. Add the weight of the water in the front by where the spare wheel has been taken out, and the power:weight ratio has been ruined.
All these extra things to stop water getting in the bonnet lock hole, or dripping on to the radiator fan, when the windscreen and the doors leak like a sieve.
Plus water get on the the cylinder head where the front two plugs are, and the casting between 2 & 3 is not drilled to drain to the rear, like it is open at the back behind #4 plug.
-
The car leaks pretty much everywhere. I've seen some put an aluminum cover over the valley between the two cams on the TC to keep the water out a little at least.
-
Quote
The car leaks pretty much everywhere.
Lol that’s exactly what I’m looking for, a sore spot....someone
Drilled a hole in the little stiffener just above the drivers leg in the forward luggage bin , I repaired that. I would love to here more.
Dakazman
-
In my own experience, both of my luggage compartments stay dry. My doors leak though. Some have theorized that the modern door seals are different enough from the original that that is a cause. I would also suspect that most of us (certainly myself included) have not rehung our doors as accurately as they were hung at the factory. When mine was new, there was a slight leak in the passenger door. Now it is "a bit more." It's all part of the fun of owning a vintage Lotus!
I have seen several cars when they were nearly new with stick-on foam rubber in the rain gutter of the bonnet or around the front luggage compartment so some have had a problem there.
The guy who installed my windshield would not guarantee that it would not leak. Thankfully, it doesn't and never has.
I would wait to see if and where you have any leaks. I would only use a drill for draining body work but would stick with seals to keep the water out of where you don't want it. Here's a catalog that might be useful (https://www.steelerubber.com/universal-parts).
-
BDA, I fully understand leaks ... I own a 79 corvette with glass t tops that have leaked since I purchased the car in 1998 I replaced all seals and envelopes purchased a set of fiberglass tops
All leak when it rain 10 inches an hour . (Usually on my wife’s side) As I stated , I have never driven a Europa and do love all the input.
Dakazman
-
Interesting that your 'vette leaks on your wife's side! I think you now have to make double sure that your wife's side of the Lotus doesn't leak!
-
Checking in , firewall ,sanding and painting moving along.
Center Firewall panel molded from ScotchWeld EC 3524 which is a fire retardant compound
that I will coat with black carbon fiber. The two remaining panels behind the seats will be done the same way. Attached is the data sheet of the compound. The “close out panels will be carbon fiber.
See the cardboard template.
Body has been sanded down to 600 grit so to see any remaining defects,and I did find a hairline crack just below the sail area probably caused by someone leaning on it . I also made a newbie
mistake and used a grinder with a whip hose that I pulled and tore a nice gouge in the door jamb .
One last coat of primer should do it .
Painting the black panels are awesome looking but that's just my opinion, but it'st nice to see a final product... almost.
Dakazman
-
That's looking great! Is that stuff good for sound deadening? That would be an important consideration.
-
Yes it absorbs sound, weight of balsa and is completely waterproof . I will still put up a sound barrier and carpet as it originally had. —-It is not easy to work with.—-
Dakazman
-
Doors,aft luggage tray in black and moving along .other pieces and body in last coat of primer
And sanding to 800 for paint... super jet black g9900s. And cleared within 30 minutes.
That’s me in the paint😀
Dakazman
-
Impressive work and momentum! I’m envious of your available time to get things done.
-
Certified
I’ve been put out to pasture from my job because of a small disability.
I’m working with mostly only my right arm . I had a torn rotator cup and needed anchors put in ,
Weight restrictions put on by doctor is why I have not been allowed to return to work. A technician
Must be able to lift 70 lbs ...I can’t torque wheel bearings to 600 ft lbs for sure..lol I have trouble with 6lbs on the left side. I remain optimistic and waiting for an offer with my company in another capacity. So I’m in my garage daily keeping busy.
Dakazman
-
Sorry about your disability. It doesn't seem to have impeded your progress at all! That black is super deep! Very pretty! But are you ready for an unairconditioned black car in Florida during the summer?! Or are you planning on installing A/C?
-
I drove a pickup for many years without air , I will have ac is this car and have read about the demands on the electrical system and accessories, and cost. I’m still a long way off for that system.
After paint the harness will go in, lights . Building up doors is another whole project that I see and from what I read I think I’ll go with the stainless door pins .
I can’t decide weather to put the cooling tubes in frame or shifter linkage first it seems the tubes take up a lot of room transitioning in and the shifter rods might get in the way . On the other hand I need to buy the stainless tubes because of just the fact that the ones I have are almost 50 years old .
All these upgrades..... I’ll be done by next week. . lol
Dakazman
-
Dakazman, seems like the work your doing on your Europa is the best type of physical therapy one could experience. Plus your enjoying your rehabilitation 8)
-
What Certified said,
It sounds like you're going to have a super car when you're done!
-
First coat on body...yeah 👍
Dakazman
-
Nice!
-
Impressive work without a paint booth!
-
That’s the beauty of base coat / clear coat base dries so quickly it just needs a tack cloth before clearing. After clear coat you sand 600 or higher. Repeat till satisfied on base . Then apply several clear coats , buff and sand till you can’lt lift anything...
Dakazman
-
Dakazman: Beautiful job on your rebuild so far. I am jealous. I have had a 1970 S2 ( 0063R ) for twenty years and am
just now getting ready to rebuild it. I have it stripped and the next job will be body removal. I will be reading your posts to
get tips and ideas on what needs doing. Keep up the good work and thanks for sharing with the group.
-
Jtkerka.
Welcome to the forum. Glad to see another s2 coming back from the grave. Lol .
I will keep you up to date . Remember to take a lot of pictures, it will help you document your progress and help putting it back together. Please introduce yourself to all and tell us more about your ride. 20 years sitting but I see some work accomplished. What type engine ...etc,etc.
There is a lot of great info here and links to many more vendor sites .
Dakazman
-
:Welcome: , jtkerka!
Don't forget to ask any questions you might have. Several of us have been were you are now. And like dakazman said, we like pictures!!
-
First piece semi completed my 3 step method plus some 3000 glaze. Pictures are not wet just the finishing u
-
That second picture pretty much says it all! Great work! :beerchug:
-
Hers a door
-
That black paint is just miles deep! Very nicely done! :beerchug:
-
That’s the corona base G9900 black . It’s the base for all dark colors the deepest black made.
When sanded out and using the 3 step 3 m process to finish it looks like a black mirror.
I used a foam cutting pad next will be a foam finishing pad.
Dakazman
-
It really is nice work. I know black can polish up well and that putting the work in will give great results, but yours is the best I've seen. I would be very, very proud of a finish as good as that.
Brian
-
Amazing work Dakazman!
-
Thanks guys I really appreciate your comments. I will keep posting pictures and today I should have the body ready to buff out. Hopefully I can get it put back together without scratching it ....
Dakazman
-
Body panels coming along , arm getting sore ... lol.
Keeping it short because after the last software update on my apple phone it reboots at will showing a full battery then next minute 0 charge
Here’s some pics .
Dakazman
-
Door at 5000 grit and buffed 😀. Now for the inner section
Dakazmang
-
Spectacular!
-
That car is going to blind people in the sunshine!
-
Hard to take a good picture of black paint 😳 most of car has no orange peel and no swirl or scratches. I need to do edges and fed compartment and engine section.
Merry Christmas to all .
Enjoy the pics!
-
You painted your car without a booth?! Amazing!
Merry Christmas to you, too!
-
Yes , No booth . Spray color , clear coat within 30 minutes , let dry approx 20-30 minutes bring outside to stop the smell . Work the next day sanding . Painted my Vette and my Camino and others the same way.
Dakazman
-
I do like the 'vette. :)
Ok, I know I'm on the wrong side of the pond for these but I've loved the shape ever since my uncle sent over a book on the cars for a Christmas present when I was a kid. It's big feature was the Mako Shark version and we had nothing like that over here at the time - that image is still fresh today !
Question - are you using a mechanical polisher or is it all hand polishing ? Whatever you're doing it's just stunning.....
-
All mechanical ,except for edges and tight areas. After painting wait the recommended time to cure . Then
Sand high spots out as you do with the primer but with 800 to 1000 initial cut. i use mostly all velcro pads and dics.
Very important FREQUENTLY check the sanded area with a rubber squeegee pad . As the glossy areas disappear step up the sanding grit 1500,2000 buff with coumpound and redetermine if more sanding is required, . Meaning do you see any inperfections you are not happy with,now is wipingtime to keep sanding ...sometines going back to 1000 and bring it back up to 2000..then rebuff with a cutting pad at a slow to moderate speed. More on that later . Remember slow and wet wiping area as you make a pass with a orbital sander.
Now if your happy with area time now to step it up ,attach a sanding pad sponge pad on sander which i like to keep on sander as to protect the edges of a panel against burn through.
Attach a 3000 pad, 4000, and 5000 ,sand an area in slow passes for approximately 4 good passes each. 3m has a great product that is expensive 10.00 dollars each in the 3000 and 5000 but all you need is two for a complete car.
The velcro equivalent is .80 cents. Will post a pics on equipment mentioned
Dakazman
-
Here are some tools.
Merry Christmas
Dakazman
-
Thanks for posting the pictures of your tools, it's an area that I know zero about but would like to learn more.
We're similar in our approaches to painting cars, although I try to get as good as possible a finish from the gun, invariably there are sections that need polishing. With my Elan I have a good finish with reflections almost as good as yours (red doesn't have the same effect though), but that's because it's a small car and quite curvy, so the paint flows well. And with a small car it's easy to hand polish. I do a similar process to yourself, I used up to 1200 to get it matt & then cutting compounds - G3 paste, a fine "T-cut" grade and finally polish.
With the Europa and the large flat areas I have always needed to polish and I must admit, I get tired doing it by hand. The car is ok but I put enough paint on that I know it could be better, hence the question on tools. I've been hesitant and wary of burning through the paint, but what you're doing has convinced me to look again.
I can see you have an air tool but is the one at the back electric ? I prefer electric as my compressor is only 9cfm (and noisy) which is probably borderline for pro tools, so if you have any advice on what I should look for I'd be obliged.
Brian
-
The one above the 2000 grit is the only January :BBQ: electric tool. It is not god for small , tight areas however .
This was the most difficult car to spray the entire car without overspray. I thought I would just spray a section at a time but taping areas would be time consuming. So I took the best start to finish path.
Yes I agree to get a good flow to the finish coat and I can do that most of the time without running the paint.
Doing small areas with the Trizact pads by hand or by machine will protect against burning thru because of the sponge backing, and I also place the sponge backup pad in picture on sander Velcro pad to prevent sander from digging in when changing directions of the sanding.
There are numerous foam pads for cutting, polishing and finishing . McGuire’s has a great video on you tube where the polish out a car for 8 hours with 6 guys ,(boring), but we/ I can fast forward and get to see what the pros do.
Dakazman
-
does the use of foam pads prevent it digging in or overheating ? Interesting if so, but as I said it's an entirely new game to me. I think I'll spend some time browsing youtube and see what's there.
Merry Christmas.....
-
Yes it does help in both. Slow and easy with light passes
Door jamb and sail panel polished.
Merry Christmas
Dave K
-
No burn thru on door interior. Window section was sanded by hand.
I left a lot of defects in this area that I usually take out
Dakazman
-
Polished out and finished edges
Dakazman
-
Outstanding! You're going to blind other drivers in the Florida summer sun!
-
Thanks BDA,
I’ll try to drive it only at night. Anyway enjoy some more blinding pics.😁
Dakazman
-
I was a little bored today so I played with the aft luggage compartment. I may have overworked it a bit since it was blown off the hood of my El Camino and down driveway .I couldn’t run fast enough. I guess I’ll be practicing by blending skills . It is only on the bottom corner and bottom side and will paint when the weather warms up
Dakazman
-
You are definitely the paint guru of this forum dakazman, but now you're just showing off. ;) Don't most people put carpet in the bottom of their luggage tray?
-
Your on a roll, keep up the great work!
-
Cleaned up my attic and reunited some parts stored for years , windows ,door trim ,windshield wiper assembly and all the rubber seals . Cannot find any of my emblems except for the forward lotus badge.
It’s a 4 Month waiting line on my bumpers that I delivered for chroming . I need to add a few escutcheons from the wiper assembly .
Surf guitar 58 😀 I guess I was showing off a bit , the compartment I pictured on page 3 show the sad shape of the tray , and the tray has been a struggle to finish. After the shock of seeing it flying away also. . Thank you for your comments . I strive for perfection but find it better to finish and go back to an item. I have seen a lot of really beautiful examples that I might achieve that level .
Here are the blisters I repaired and waiting to paint and blend in.
Dakazman
-
Amazing job, clearly I'm just jealous! :trophy:
-
Finally got my iPhone to stop hesitating long enough to post these pics of the blisters.
Now just waiting for the temperature to hit 65+. I haven’t much luck blending the clearcoat in,
With the use of a blender agent but will post pics.
Dakazman
-
Bummer! Somehow I have confidence you'll turn that into another black mirror!
-
Hi again, and apologies in advance for going off topic (but I'm still gonna ask ;) )
After seeing all this work you've convinced me to have a go with modern kit, so I've bought myself a dual action polisher, called a DAS6Pro over here, I don't know if you have the same things over there. It's got variable speeds and I've got a 5" & 3" backing plate with Hexlogic Heavy/Medium/Finish velcro pads - basically I've been trying to copy what you showed a page or so back.
The last polisher I had (several years ago) vibrated so much that I had aching wrists after a few minutes and the polishing mops were tied on with string so you can see this is a big learning curve for me. Hence some questions on technique.....
First question is how fast ? This polisher has a range from 2500 to 6500 rpm and the dial gives levels 1-6 with 1 being slowest. That's quite a range so if yours has similar speed control I'd appreciate any guidance you could give on what speed for what operation or pad. I know there is plenty of paint to go at but I'm wary of overdoing it so I've only used settings 1&2 so far.
Second - from the picture you posted, are you using your polisher for the 1000/2000 grit paper stage ? I've previously done that by hand with soapy water (and it takes ages) but are there pads you can get that do the same job with a dry polisher like my new toy ?
Third - I bought a package kit which has 3 Menzerna compounds, Heavy Cut 400, Medium cut 2500 and Super Finish Plus. 3 Hexlogic pads, Orange Medium cut, White medium finish, black finish pad. This kit was aimed at folks trying to bring back a modern car paint before resale, but given that I'm going to try & copy what you do from a matt finish, does this sound ok or should I have some intermediate pad/compounds ? I would normally use G3 first by hand but that's a paste, not a liquid.
TIA, and I promise not to derail the thread again with more questions..... ;)
Brian
-
STOP,
Save that heavy cut 400 coumpound, that is very abrasive and may be used , wet and slow .
Dakazman
-
STOP,
Save that heavy cut 400 coumpound, that is very abrasive and may be used , wet and slow .
I googled your polisher , very nice addition to your tool chest. Stay slow and wet , 3 max till you get comfortable with your cutting agents and pads, and your ability to control it . It is a learning process for you .
Remember to get the wax off first it will clog up your sanding pads fast .
Your Second question , yes sanding pads wet, to start a 20 year old paint job 1500 never dry. Wipe off till you see all gloss gone after wiping with squeegee pad. It could take five or so passes. Test by hand, then apply that knowledge to your polisher to the rest of an area. Then sand with 2000,3000, 4000 5000 . It shortens up compouding and polishing exponentially. All done wet . Fill a bucket and keep pads in it as you move around the car. You can mix it up a bit .
Dont push down, let the disc do the job,or abrasive compound /polish
Dakazman
-
Thanks for the tips on paper grits. I've never used such fine papers, I need to get some more learning/searching done !
I'm very wary on pressing hard, one of the MR2's we owned had been "polished" before we got it and there were a couple of areas which looked to me as if they'd been melted, sort of pock marked. That wouldn't polish out, new paint was the only way to fix it and hence I don't want to end up the same way with this.
Having said that, it's remarkably smooth tool to operate even on it's 1st setting. I'm not sure why it needs 6500, it gets a good polish at low speeds, but then again I'm working on areas which I have already polished by hand so there's a good base.
Thanks again, not only for your comments but the inspiration to jump in to something new. Anything else crops up you think I should know, drop me a line....
Brian
-
Hi Brian,
Let us know on a new thread , Flashy cars.. , you can diy..lol. .looking foward to some pics. Some people say all show no go but I will strive for a balance.
Dakazman
ps. My new phone on the way , and now waiting on a 4 month wait for my bumpers to be re chromed.
-
Tore down my seats today and won a prize for rust removal. The shells will need some work. $900.00 bill for rechroming bumpers will slow down progress a little.
Trying to get some painting done but the weather is not cooperating. I will post more pics soon on progress.
Dakazman
-
$900.00 bill for rechroming bumpers will slow down progress a little.
Dakazman
Mine cost £240 each plus £120 if they needed straightening out.
They came back as good as new, but they had to weld little tabs on the back of the bumpers to attach the electrodes to, and they had not taken those tabs off (about 1/2" square).
-
4129r no straightening, just a large EPA disposal fee.
Looks like i will be doing some fabrication work on the seat bottom trays.I will also record demensions to completely rebuild.
Dakazman
-
I’m always amazed at how rusted the seats and tracks are when they are INSIDE a hardtop car. By the way, RD sells new metal shells if you don’t want to deal with fabricating your own.
-
It is ironic, isn't it. On the other hand, there are convertibles that are more weather proof than a Europa.
-
I have repaired about 4 shells using angle for the edges pop riveted in place, and sheet metal similarly pop riveted. I then bash the aluminium pop rivets as flat as possible for maximum grip.
Then I prime the sheets before sending them to my trimmer who will shortly complete set #7, the last set for me.
-
7 sets OMG,
Never say , the last ... your knowledge will help others finish there project , so its the same only different.
dakazman
-
I have some dimensions on seat frame and foam for rebuild on a federal s2.
-
Seat panels as requested!
-
Just checking size, hope this helps your progress.
Dakazman
-
This is good info for the S2 owners and the basic principles apply to the TC/TCS owners as well.
I realise it's more work, but when you've finished the seats it would be good to have this info collated into a pdf file as an article for the Technical Section. That way it doesn't get lost in a rebuild thread and you'll be helping future members ?
(thinks - we really should look at a wiki for this stuff.....)
-
I will redraw the pdf's . They were more of a sketch, so i apologize for that.Also add some missing dimensions and hidden edges,cut lines , stiffeners. Pictures Too.
dakazman
-
dakazman,
Thanks for posting all the sketches and pics, they'll help immensely with my build.
Rod
-
Rod ,
Glad to help , keep us posted on your projects materials , vendors,etc.
Dakazman
-
I’m looking forward to seeing how your refurbishment turns out.
-
Quick question guys ,
Do either of the door hinge kits come with the bobbins in the upper and lower door?
Dakazman
-
Both r.d. enterprises (stainless steel copies of the original hinges) and Banks (brass hinge kit of a completely different design) hinge kits contain only hinge bits. The assumption is that the bobbins in the body and the door are in good shape. In fact, the hinges I got from Banks assumed that my body bobbins were worn and the pin part that sits in the body bobbins was too thick so I had to have them turned down a bit so if you get them check the fit first. If there is a problem with your bobbins, you'll have to take care of that first.
I originally bought r.d.'s first before I had heard of the Bank's kit. The Bank's kit seemed to be easier to set up so I used them. Since I only have experience with the Bank's kit, I can't say which is better/easier. The Bank's kit has the advantage that it allows you to take the door off and you'll only have to readjust the height of the door. I'm happy with the Bank's hinges.
-
Thanks BDA,
I was leaning toward the stainless but now may go with the brass since I Have a lot of 1” x3” brass stock to make the bobbins so there won’t be any dissimilar metal corrosion in doors however the stock bobbins are still installed in the body.
My body bobbins are not worn and a 1/2 rod is a perfect fit.
Dakazman
-
You bring up a good point about corrosion since aluminum and brass are pretty far apart on a galvanic chart and given the humidity in Florida, that could be an issue. I think there's probably enough relative movement that it shouldn't be a problem. A coating of grease would help with door operation and potential corrosion. Theoretically, stainless steel rubbing together could gall. I wonder if the risks of corrosion are greater than corrosion?
In eighteen years, I haven't found any corrosion.
-
I agree, grease Will help with also being 10 miles to the ocean. ITs a nightmare on my woodworking tools. constantly using Johnson paste wax on any bare metal. I left my centering punches out once and they were covered in rust in a week.
Dakazman
-
Yup, I can relate. I used to live in New Orleans!
-
Found the parts that were holding my doors on ... don’t laugh to hard.
Dakazman
-
Ten minutes with a wire brush, maybe some new washers and a length of stainless 1/2" rod (304 would be fine) and you're good to go..... ;)
-
Those aren’t so bad. Like EuropaTC said, a little polishing up and your good to go.
-
The brass banks kit also allows you to easily set the height of the door. As BDA says they are a tight fit in the bobbins but I just used emery cloth to just take a bit off the brass pins. And I think they are easier to use when taking a door off and on.
-
Toying with a design of my own to hang door using a tray to place door on and lock in place with the rod ,Using eccentric bobbins for in and out . Checking out some rolller bearings for base.
Its been way to cold for me ... 37 degrees 57 with a wind chill, ok you can laugh but it was just 95 here . I managed to repair a rotted out receptacle outside the feed my wife's washing machine. Still
I sanded and cut out decay on my seat tray. I'll bend a new piece of steel and weld
in. Planing an all aluminum tray later.
Dakazman
to
-
I'd be interested in what you come up with!
-
Warmed back up to 70 . Just perFet but not for painting due to rain.
BDA, Put that on the back burner and worked on the seat trays. One ready to weld up and the other just cut out decay.
-
Started another project, door window trim refurbishing. Removed all the old hard rubber and burnished out corrosion and scratches . Sanded then buffed, 3 hours later almost good for installation.
I say almost because they will need some welding of the cracks.
Quick question...when installed in door is the lower window, mid trim crossbar visible or hidden by the window trim felt?
I need to find a good person to weld aluminum. I don’t do aluminum , I know my limits. Lol.
Dakazman
-
Burnished up nice. They will be soft an easily scratched now as the original finish was anodised, so you need to be super careful in installation.
The lower trim is external and visible the window felt trim just clips to the inside of the trim.
Where is the ally cracked/broken. Mine was a broken on the piece of angle which had failed. I actually ground off what was left of the old bracket, made up a new piece anc screwed and glued it together I was concerned welding would do more damage. I managed to drill and tap the frame with 2 fixings.
Used epoxy and screwed it together. Making sure the screws didn’t purtrude into the sliding channel.
When refitting the frame it is better to install the quarter light frame and glass at the same time. You can fit it afterwards but I found it was more difficult.
-
Thanks buzzer,
I realize they were anodized, very hard to break thru to repolish so it was live with the countless scores and pits . I can’t imagine how a car could have so much damage and wear and tear with only 86,000 miles on it . Probably more like 186,000, and an owner who totally neglected any maintenance.
The welds that are snapped are on the exterior forward crossbrace,see pics,. There is a better connection on the inner forward crossbrace . That is what I will fabricate and bring to welder.
Dakazman
-
Worked on the worse of the two quarter glass trim and now I need to polish the better side .
The main window trim ,showing both interior sides, one completed and a must do .
Dakazman
-
Some progress in the engine bay 😀
Dakazman
-
That's amazing! Are you going to be able to look at anything in the engine compartment with a light on it? It's clear you don't have enough to do! Making an engine compartment look good is one thing but making it look as good as the exterior of the car is quite another!
-
Thanks BDA , wait till you see the dimpled stainless backgrounds in place😀
The engine cover is all most done also . I tried using a blending in the clear but every time I buffed it out I saw the blend line . One other door showed a small hairline crack that I saw at certain angles . That to is near done.
Dakazman
-
Fantastic!! Dakazman that looks like it should have come that way from the factory!! I thought about doing that with mine...now I must!
-
Here some more to take in 😀
Dakazman
-
Drool....... :trophy: :trophy: :trophy:
-
Finally finished the engine cover. Heavy pollen slowed the repainted panel.
Back to good as new 😀
Dakazman
-
More black mirrors! You're not going to want to drive it for fear of getting a scratch or scuff on that beautiful paint!
-
Like I said I only build them , my girls rip them apart😏. This went with her when she got married.
All free. I refinished the factory paint finish.
Dakazman
-
BDA, but would really drive me crazy is when others hang on the doors to get in and out or even trying to sit on it....
Rock chips , dead animals ok but stupidity..🤬
Scraped up this mirror for some needed repairs. Easier now than after hanging.
Dakazman
-
Decals I made up:
https://jbcollier.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-xZ9fMZd/A
-
JB need 2 each , how much?
Dakazman
-
Free.
They are just Dymo labels. Useful to have for labelling relays, fuses, etc. You might want to pick up a printer.
If not, I'd cheerfully send you a set if you pm me your mailing address.
-
Thanks JB , my wife has a printer that will do that also , it also cuts out letters and images. I forgot all about it . All owners should post , “no lean” in that location, and put in the lotus manual. :lotus:
Dakazman
-
Like I said I only build them , my girls rip them apart😏. This went with her when she got married.
All free. I refinished the factory paint finish.
Dakazman
Nice dowry! I've got an eligible bachelor son. Just sayin'. ::)
-
Just playing around lately on my build and fitting some stainless in the engine compartment.
Tell me what you think ...!
It’s been 85 degrees Fahrenheit here and needed to get my lawn fertilized and pool area cleaned up.
Now cleaning windows , this retirement crap is killing me... lol
Dakazman
-
That looks amazing!!! :beerchug: She's definitely going to be a looker!
:lotus:
-
Thanks BDA! I thought it might be too much... that’s why I posted it.
Finished a few other jobs and now I can see the top of my workbench again.
Dakazman
-
HReadied the body for its last coat of clear and my arm is falling off.😀
Covered one of the firewall sections with carbon fiber and will add the stainless on the engine side.
Thought I would start replacing all brake lines but found out the lines are not metric and have a bubble flare . I found out I need to research these connections a little further before buying lines .
I have a flaring tool and bender so I m thinking of cutting these lines apart and adding the correct fittings. Any info would be appreciated.
Dakazman
-
Looks really great Dakazman. I don’t have the patience for body work and always admire someone that has that and the skill. :beerchug:
-
Can’t wait to see the shops outcome on yours.
Dakazman
-
Thought I would start replacing all brake lines but found out the lines are not metric and have a bubble flare . I found out I need to research these connections a little further before buying lines .
I have a flaring tool and bender so I m thinking of cutting these lines apart and adding the correct fittings. Any info would be appreciated.
Dakazman
There's a list of what is needed to re-do the brake lines and fittings for an S2 on LEC.
http://lotus-europa.com/manuals/misc/brakes/S2_Order2.html
-
The painting of the Europa has been a challenge and full of aggravating nuisances . One step at a time
And finally I can see the the finish line for paint unless I decide to add the black cherry stripes.LOL
Can’t wait to start assembly...
Dakazman
-
Thanks Jojo 😀
-
Looking good D-man! Can't wait to see the finished product!
Tom
-
Fabulous! Certified is right about body work challenging one's patience but when you're working to achieve the finish you've been producing, that becomes a huge understatement! I like the CF, too.
I can't wait for you to start putting her together, too.
-
Re: brake lines
https://jbcollier.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-wcspJsG/A
Both types of flares are used on the Europa. It is not possible to get a good bubble flare from the usual flaring tools found in North America. A special flare tool is the best way to go. I mostly used a hideously expensive professional tool but this works well and is priced right:
https://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-on-car-flaring-tool-for-3-16-tubing.html
-
This is the brake flairing tool I have. Does everything you will need for making brake lines.
I use NiCopp Brake line coil 3/16” in 25ft lengths to make hydraulic lines. It is seamless copper nickel 90-10 tubing that bends easily and doesn’t rust. You can get it at JEGS.
-
Jeggs is probably the best route. Right after cleaning up after this paint job.
Also needed a starter for Vette .. ouch! $$$ GM 12361146. Also daughter has a project for me. :headbanger:
This is my kit I’ve had for decades 😀 Now I need to remember my bend allowance formula 😀
Thanks again guys,
Dakazman
-
Hi Dazkaman,
If you've made brake pipes with that style of kit then in my books you deserve a medal ! :)
I used to have one like that and always had trouble using it. A few years back I bought a kit similar to the one JB showed and it is so simple to use it's just amazing. Perfect flares every time and the one I have can be used working underneath the car as well. I bought mine from Ebay but there are many suppliers and this is what it looks like;
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brake-Pipe-Flaring-Tool-for-3-16-Copper-Kunifer-Steel-Brake-Pipes-SAE-Double/272815053600?hash=item3f850b5b20:g:cIMAAOSw5HJXK4f~ (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brake-Pipe-Flaring-Tool-for-3-16-Copper-Kunifer-Steel-Brake-Pipes-SAE-Double/272815053600?hash=item3f850b5b20:g:cIMAAOSw5HJXK4f~)
Well worth the money !
Brian
-
That’s set is about 50$ usd . I paid 3x that for the snap on blue point set 30 years ago, however you got my attention that it works under the car . My set tight spaces is not your friend and requires good eyesight . lol. I would like to see it work. I’ll you tube it later.
At least I’m not replacing these 😥
Love upgrading my tools.
Dakazman
-
My electrical nightmares.....😀
Replace wire 124756634... were on delay how long Kaz?
Dakazman
-
That's actually beautiful! When I do wiring, it seems that no matter how careful I am, it ends up looking like spaghetti!
-
Oh yes , miss it all ready.
-
tsk, tsk, Dakazman, you're not supposed to post pictures of your private jet on here........ :)
Ok, back to brake tools. There are lots of variations on the one I posted earlier, mine is slightly different on the handle part but essentially the same operation. Here are a couple of Youtube videos showing how it works, the first is a professional sales video, the second is a bloke in a garage and it's definitely NOT a professional video. But it is very down to earth and shows just how simple the tool is to use in a real world workshop.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncMRlomyqTs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncMRlomyqTs)
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEBh3kNvlMw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEBh3kNvlMw)
As for using on the car, I've used mine to make flares underneath the car where the long pipe goes from front to rear with the pipe in situ when I fitted residual pressure valves at the front crossmember.
Brian
-
Brian , i was hoping no one would pick up on that...LOL
Forgetting a tool was the nightmare there and running up and down steps.
Yes,Brake tool...
SOLD,,..
.that's how i thought it would work. Putting in my order today.
Dakazman
-
Things are coming together lately and after 4 months waiting The bumpers and some miscellaneous
Parts were finished. I could not be more satisfied with the outcome.
Dakazman
-
Those bumpers look great!
:lotus:
-
Nice chrome plating! Did you replate all the chrome parts? I only did the bumpers and am hopeful I can hand polish all the other parts (nothing was pitted) but I have a feeling the bumpers will standout.
-
Certified
I did the windshield wiper close outs and as pictured the interior light assembly.
The hinges for the engine cover will be new . The door handles should polish up, like yours
They weren’t pitted.
Dave
-
Finished the final clear coating to the body and repairs to minor imperfections , now to sand and buff and polish again.
Tomorrow the final coat to my 84 El Camino if the weather holds perfect.
Dave
-
Geez, dakazman! You even made your trunk tray into a black mirror finish!
You've done amazing work! :beerchug:
-
Outstanding shine D-man! Your sanding arm must be getting a great workout.
-
BDA, I had some extra clear , did you see the spare tire area?
Surf that’s not sanded yet!
If all goes well and I don’t get any “ burnies “ I can start putting the frame and body parts on.
Harness , dash, seats , tubing , brake lines etc etc....
Dave
-
What did you do to get the rough side of the fiberglass so smooth?
-
BDA, I had some extra clear , did you see the spare tire area?
Don't know how I missed it! Youza!,
-
Dakazman, can I send you my next Lotus restoration project? Excellent work!
-
Certified,
Another.., Sure send it. Any progress reports on your paint?
BDA, I read somewhere tomorrow is a special day for you ???
Staying up late to be first to post.
Dave
-
I'm not sure what you're talking about (I have an idea) but I guess I'll find out tomorrow... :)
-
Gideon,
Sorry I missed your question,”What did you do to get the rough side of the fiberglass so smooth?
Mostly ( metal roller) rolled on polyester resin on chopped strand mat , mainly to repair a lot of spider cracks , tears , holes . After sanding it looked good so I continued on . The small indents were filled with icing . Sealed with sealer, Primed and painted.
The thickness is still about 1/8 range.
Another benefit of smoothing is the fibers are less moisture entering the glass ,freezing and causing fissures. It also smells cleaner and holds less dirt. Mostly I was tired of getting fiberglass cuts from the sharp strands.
Dave
-
It's going to be an exceptional car. I'd love to take a closer look some day.
-
Gideon , I did post some pics on Instagram Under Christine Kaczmarek. I will try to get more people from there to stop at lotusEuropa.org. I like that they have a instant translator on each post...
Maybe one day I’ll drive back up there , Jersey roads outside of Morristown are beautiful in the fall.
Dave
-
Final sanding and buffing
So far so good, bringing the finish down slower this time and buffing to see what was missed.
I need to check when I first started with the color . Most days I put in 7 hours with only taking days off to work on the honey do list...which never seems to end . It looks like most of the other pictures but trust me there is no major problems this time.
Dave
-
Dave that looks incredible!!! Keep up the good work!!!
-
More amazing work Dave! She is definitely going to be a looker!
-
Hi Dave,
Wow! 8)
What a great looking build, inspirational stuff!
Mark
-
Inspirational Dave. Now I want a black Europa!
-
A lot of hard work, and it shows! Congrats! :beerchug:
Tom
-
Thanks guys for all the nice compliments . I realized everyone needs to hear, great work.
Time can give you time to finish,but it’s up to us in the end. I just made that up...lol.
Dave
Aka da shine man, dakazman...etc😀
-
After another 8 hours of buffing / sanding / buffing / polishing...
Coming along nicely so I pushed it outside to see in full sun.
Dave
-
I'm picturing a ring of armed guards protecting this car from errant shopping carts every time you go to the grocery store. ;D
t
-
Lol
I didn’t think of that very real threat. I already am putting the car cover on it bc our cat likes jumping up on cars and motorcycles with its claws out. I missed putting a cover on the El Camino after buffing and now have scratches in it . 😂
Dave
-
Hey Tom got the answers, do you see my wife , well will just bring her truck.
Dave
-
Brilliant! Just jack up the Europa so shopping carts slide clear underneath! How many turns on the AVO Shocks adjustment rings get you up that high? :pirate:
t
-
Tires and wheels all most together which means I might qualify as a roller.
I wanted to have the same manufacturer on front and back so I went with federals 185 60 13 up front on the panasport 6” rims and 205 60 13 on 7” on the back but just as the rear was supposed to be shipped they found out I had a blemish in the sidewalk and canceled the rear tire order .with no suitable replacement available. so, I found a set of firestone’s And received shipment today. Mounting tomorrow.
Now I also bridge the tire controversy, see pic below for explanation.!
Dakazman
-
... a roller, eh! Cool! Let's see it roll! :beerchug:
-
Congrats on the roller D-man! :pirate:
I read somewhere in here that the 185/60-13 + 205/60-13 combo on stock 5.5” Cosmo rims fit a non-modified TCS wheel well. But I also seem to remember you have flared wheel wells. Anyone care to confirm that this combo fits an unmodified TCS?
So was the blemish on your rear tires on the last pair in existence? Or was there just a ridiculously long back ordering time? I like the tread on the Federals.
-
I just got a pair of the 205/60s federal tires out of California. Sidewall was damaged in transport and they sent me another right away. I found mine on eBay. Are the Federal tires out of production?
-
megaautoparts:
Good day,
I really do regret to inform you that we are not able to ship the item you purchased from us.
We value our customers and safety is our priority.
You happened to have purchased the last order we had available, but upon the inspection process they were found to have defective sidewalls and "outdated".
We will never sell an item or ship an item if the quality and fitment are not perfect or that could risk our customer's lives.
We checked with manufacturers but these are currently out of stock and we had the last ones
I can have it fully refunded it you like or I can check to see if we have or not have anything similar
We will cancel the order if there is no response so we don't hold on to your money so let us know when you can! thank you
-G.M.
That’s the message I received....
Not rolling yet Tom, need some bushings for shocks and other misc items , I’ll be ordering soon from rd. Rolling without engine also😥.
-
Are you going to use a twin link rear suspension? If not, you ain't rolling without an engine (unless you make something special). We'll be patient...
-
BDA,
It rolled when the PO removed trans and that’s how I bought it . It didn’t track straight for long distances , As the caster/camber would pull the rear tires inwards. A true roller ,,. No.
Yes it will be a little longer before a true roller.
Dave
-
Rear tires mounted . Another small step finished.
Dave
-
Back to the mechanical aspect...
Hey guys , just received some spax shocks and would like to know the correct orientation for installation.look at the top shock Bush ...should it be forward or aft? waiting on the drop link and sway bar bushings From Dave bean.
Second question is how to decipher the part number to correct bolts.
Dakazman
-
Pictures would not go thru even though I downsized them .
-
Bolt number breakdown.
-
For fitting the shock, just orient it so there is no binding. You might shim to keep it oriented correctly but that's a secondary issue.
Page 7 of the S2 workshop manual explains the general hardware part number scheme.
XUFB0602 is hex (X), fine thread (UF), bolt (B), 3/8" (2 digits 06 x 1/16 diameter), 1/8" (2 digiti 02 x 1/16 length). I think this is an error and should be XUFB0620 which would mean it's 1 1/4" long. I never worried about the bolt part number. I used AN bolts wherever I could so I had to measure all the grip length for pretty much each of them. You can measure the grip length and add enough for washers and the nut if needed.
-
Thanks BDA,
I need to get the parts manual printed up.
Couldn’t find that reference in the two workshop manuals I have . I also ordered Dave beans s2 part catalog but I don’t know if it breaks down the bolts.
Dakazman
-
They are online here: http://www.lotus-europa.com/manuals/index.htm
-
Mine are bush forward.
-
Thanks Bobw,
I was going with that after I thought of proper ways of installing any hardware is ,down,back or in.
So the bush head forward is correct.
.
BDA I use that link but I like paper 😀. I’m bringing that PDF to staples..
Dakazman
-
Good news,
Lock assembly bases are aluminum.
At first sight I thought they were chrome that was pitted,however when cleaning my assemblies up
Found to be aluminum which after filing out pits,sanding and buffed turned out looking new . So if yours is painted our pitted there is hope . I priced out a lock assembly ..yikes.
Passing it on
Dakazman
-
They'll look great next to the black mirror that will be your car!
-
Thanks BDA,
These small items take a lot of time to restore. One step at a time. I thought it would be a little boring to post but details are details.
Dakazman
-
Installed some new bushings in the droplinks , not to bad to accomplish but the top bushings are no longer available at Dave bean . They do ship a replacement that requires some finessing and installed and cut to fit. They use the 6004 in its place. Love the Dave Bean catalog, it also has slot of tips.
This gets my goat! An unused NEW tie rod end rubber bushing discinagrated. Another setback.
However I did learn that the steering column does disconnect when extended.
Washed car!!!
Dakazman
-
Dakazman, if the joint itself is good (and it should be) you can buy replacement rubber boots for these things. I don't have any US suppliers but they are very common on UK Ebay, just put "replacement rubber boot ball joint" in and Ill bet you'll find some over your side of the pond. They are very cheap and easy to fit.
Brian
-
Exactly the same thing happened to me when I fitted new rod ends twelve years ago when I started my rebuild. Noticed the splits just before the car's first MOT test this year!. Nothing lasts any more ;-) This is the size I used for the track rod ends, got them from Ebay about £4. Please check the rubber seal around the bottom trunnons, I found them split too, got new ones from Richard at Banks.
Cheers
Stu
-
Thanks guys 👍👍. I didn’t even think they would sell them. That will save me some money.
I have enough to keep me going. Keep in touch.
Dakazman
-
I've seen them on eBay. r.d. also sells them and I'm sure DBE does as well.
-
I just received the Europa catalog from DBE, a lot of eye candy and I need one of each.
I’ll add it to my next order.! Summit racing has boots but the size my be incorrect.
Dakazman
-
I need to step up some of the time consuming small low cost jobs , for instance giving this box of items a rebuild and some TLC. Documenting another list of parts etc. and wait for the truck full of money to stop at my house. LOL.
Dakazman
-
What are you going to do about your dash? I never tire from recommending http://www.prestigeautowood.com/. He does fabulous work, has a good selection of veneers, and he's not afraid of doing custom touches.
When the truck with the money stops at your house, can you please send him to mine? ;D
-
Good tips BDA,
I sure will send it up to you and some of the members how tirelessly answer every and any posts day by day.
I am going to build a dash myself . Woodworking in one of many skills taught to me by father and grandfathers. I still have a Delta lathe, radial arm, drill press and unisaw built in the 1940’s. I also read your posts on various
Veneers vs solid wood construction. I have time now to work these items since painting is on hold now that the temps and humidity are to much to contend with.
Dakazman
-
Woodworker, too! You really are a renaissance man!
You've probably seen where I've mentioned this before but remember to finish both sides and all the edges to keep moisture out of the wood.
-
Yes , I did hear finish both sides, how do you feel about adding a thin sheet of metal behind gauges and switches for better grounding ?
I also did all the electrical and plumbing, foundation masonary , framing, windows,finishing work ,tile flooring , built all the bathroom vanities and laminated,
Sheetrock finishing, painting...but I don’t try not to mention it.
Dakazman
-
You and Chuck Nukem with your house building!
I don't think you need that metal. IIRC, everything has a ground wire, but I can see that it might be handy to have a ground running across the entire dash. In a sense there will be one anyway because the pad that bolts onto the bottom of the dash is grounded on my car but having spade lugs on the dash might be useful. I have heard of people who got a single plug and connected everything on the dash to that plug so you could plug and unplug the entire dash. It seems interesting but I'm not sure it's that practical. If you were constantly taking your dash out, it might make sense but otherwise...
Knock yourself out and take plenty of pictures (and post them, of course!)
-
In the Mosquito that I am working on (wooden aircraft) they ran a network of 1/4" wide copper strips fastened to the inside skin with tiny nails. When ever a ground was required it was just soldered on.
-
Working on a Mosquito! That is so cool! That must be a fascinating project!
(I don't mean to change the subject, but I couldn't help noting that.)
-
Me too BDA!
That is a great project to be apart of. Kodos Gary t...
Dakazman
-
I know that feeling all too well. The never ending parts ordering that impacts your monthly budget. I make a big list and divide into time frames to order based on need/time basis and dollar cost per month. When you spread it out for 12 to 18 months it’s not so bad. And I keep an accurate accounting of all my expenses for each car I rebuild.
-
Not to hi jack the thread but is there an update from the paint shop?
-
Who got the pucks out...out of my front calipers. My originals and a set I picked up on eBay ready to be rebuilt. This will be a first for me so if anyone has any tips on cleaning, resleeve and reinstall please chime in.
Dakazman
-
I see you have split the calipers. Do you have the correct square-cut seals? You cannot reuse the old ones, nor fit o-rings.
-
The seals are still available from, amongst others, Canley classics in the UK.
https://www.canleyclassics.com/suspension-steering-and-brakes/stainless-steel-brake-caliper-pistons
Serge did a nice YouTube video on rebuilding calipers.
Regards,
-
Thanks JB , I did read that you couldn’t use the seals. I did use a ms o ring on the two rusted calipers but that was to let hydraulics work and pushed the pucks out after soaking.
Bodzer, Thanks. Just ordered 8 . I have the caliper rebuild kits .
Dakazman
-
After blasting, paint , installing new seals . Waiting for the square seals. I decided to purchase four pistons due to deep corrosion . Another purchase was the bleeder screws which were crushed from over torquing
Dakazman
-
Went through the same rebuild as you Dakazman. Use plenty of lubricating grease during your reassembly (the red type that you can use with brake fluid).
-
Thanks certified will do.
Started on the wiring harness and dash separation and rebuilding another heater unit .
Oh what fun finding all the p.o’s debacles, I cannot even call them repairs. I’m also building a
Harness layout board so to build harnesses, at least for an s2 federal.
-
British Wiring sells a new harness for $580. I have bought harnesses from them before (as well as visiting their shop). They are extremely well made and you will be hard pressed to match the quality and have all the right connectors.
-
That will be a nice profit then. I counted 20 or so different colors I need to purchase. Normally I deal in one or two. I’m a little picky when it comes to wires.
Dakazman
-
Ah yes, I had forgotten what you did for a living. Nice work. Your certainly well qualified to build your own harness! Looking forward to the updates.
-
At one time some French cars used only white wire with identifying numbers printed at each end. It worked but the numbers tended to fade and disappear over time which made electrical troubleshooting a more involved process on a 15 year old car. I prefer systems where wire colours and stripes identify specific circuits. On a British car, green is a fused ignition feed and green with a white stripe a turn signal feed. Makes troubleshooting pretty easy.
-
Lucas did us all a huge favor with their wiring color standard. As JB says, if you only preserve the green/white/brown/black part of it you will be miles ahead when troubleshooting.
I helped a friend with a Caterham with an electrical issue (you know he was scraping the bottom of the barrel when he called me!) and the PO had apparently felt it necessary to replace half the wires in the front of the car with red wires. It was a mess and much harder to find out what the problem was. We looked at a rear turn signal and the lamp was grounded with a green wire! Unfortunately, Caterham doesn't publish a wiring diagram. He really needs to rewire the entire car with the proper colored wires!
-
JB ,and BDA,
I will repair with correct color coding entire length.
I agree, aircraft wiring is labeled every 6” with the wiring numbers, impractical and to costly for
Cars. Color coding works well is this application.
But some people should not work on wiring! See pictures. My favorite was the red to white to blue repair, and the termination around the fuse. I can send about 12 more what not to do photo ‘soft more amusement later.This harness is in the condition that I purchased the car 25 years ago for $1,000.
Dakazman
-
+ 1,000,000%
My best how-not-to-repair-wiring story:
Some how a local Toyota dealer briefly was also a Rolls Royce dealer. An 80s Shadow came in with a rhythmic clicking under the dash. The "mechanic" found the problem removed the noisy item and bypassed it by joining the two wires together. Well, it was a self-resetting circuit breaker -- i.e.:a very expensive fuse. The car got 500 metres down the road and burst into flames, total loss.
I have lost count of how many times well-meaning owners have hooked up their jumper cables or batteries backwards.
-
Some how a local Toyota dealer briefly was also a Rolls Royce dealer.
Well, at least we know how it ceased to be a Rolls Royce dealer
-
JB, great story, I almost thought you were joking.
Bainford, Lol, like your humor.
Dakazman
-
I would love to see a wire harness drawing (schedule of wiring?) that shows the actual gauge, length and routing of each wire the for the Fed TCS (or any Europa, for that matter). The schematic only gets you part way there. I sorted my wiring to the point that the essentials work and I can get my MA inspection sticker, but there are still dead-ended wires hanging everywhere.
My favorite car electrical story is the guy who used a .22 caliber bullet in his under dash fuse block. (Fits perfectly, btw.) This was reported in the Darwin Awards. He didn't kill himself, but he did take himself out of the gene pool, if you know what I mean, thus securing his place in the annals of Darwinism.
Tom
-
British Wiring sells a new harness for $580. I have bought harnesses from them before (as well as visiting their shop). They are extremely well made and you will be hard pressed to match the quality and have all the right connectors.
Are these harnesses an exact replica of the OEM, including wire gauge? Presumably they are made to order; can 'one gauge larger' be specified?
I suppose these are questions I should ask British Wiring directly. When I eventually tackle the job of upgrading/improving my electrical system I think I would like to 'up-size' the wire gauge in some parts of the circuit for a little piece of mind. Perhaps it isn't necessary to do so, but I occasionally wonder if some parts of the system utilises marginal sized wiring for the task at hand, given some of the other weak points in the electrical system.
-
British Wiring asks if you uprated your alternator, starter, etc so they can supply the proper gauge wire in the harness. They will custom make anything you like (for a price).
-
I’m so glad I decided to inspect the complete harness. Completed the tear down and marked all breakouts, flagged the concerns, and did some preliminary cost assessment and I’am finding out for what certified stated is well worth it .
I am identifying some buried wire runs, cut and hanging runs.
A big , Thank You for the color coded schematic of the federal S2.
Dakazman
-
Finding faults that have been introduced by attempts of one of the previous owners to 'repair' a thing are often the most difficult to find.
From time to time I'm working on mechanical pinball machines which are filled up with tons of relays and colour coded wiring.
My most difficult to trace down electronic mystery was a non working relay in a Bally Gator of the sixties.
It took quite some time to find out that someone has replaced the hinged part of the relay with a new one made of stainless steel.
Unfortunately stainless steel is no ferro magnetic material so the new part was quite unimpressed by the magnetic field created by the coil.
I have no idea why the part had been replaced and the new part looked nicely made.
Klaus
-
Lol , Yes non magnetic.
My wife, fond of her magnetic note holders was sorry when she purchased a new stainless steel refrigerator and went to place them on it only to end up on the floor. Now it’s tape everywhere...
In your case it probably stood out when it was the only non rusted part in the machine.
Surf, the harness is basically one long strand so the length of a wire is from/to following the harness layout routes and noted on the colored schematic , front bulkhead,rear bulkhead.
Aircraft wiring has an individual wire part number on every wire. With that said,when ordering the wire
You must state the each.ea., means feet. So if you say 1 ea. You’ll get one foot. Not so good if the plane is full of passengers that are waiting to leave on time.
Dakazman
-
Found an extra heater on eBay I couldn’t pass up. Cleaned up nicely in my spare time. Lol.
Dakazman
-
I started on the dash and mock-up. The original dash has a salvageable core . Reglueing inlay in sections. On the original I striped it down and removed veneer and will be looking for the stock veneer . I’ll go back and read some of the recent post on the original stock type and stain.
Laid out the harness board a little different showing front center and rear sections.
The mock up is to update interior switching, gauges but keep layout.
Dakazman
-
Keep the progress going Dakazman! You keeping many of us motivated! (I was working on my Elan today getting ready for the road trip to LOG38).
-
Certified ,good luck at log38. Maybe we will both be at 39 with our europa’s.
I was looking into this concours judging. This paragraph jumped out at me and I laughed.(belt high).
So I guess my build would be a low score 100 point car . Originally sand color , now black. I still need to read more about these rule system .
“.Heimrath kneels down and feels the lower half of the car with his fingers—it’s too smooth, too. “In the assembly plant, they would buff only what you could see—basically above the beltline and the body,” he continues.
“Nobody at the plant cared about the bottom. If you look at an original car, there’s no paint under here”—Heimrath gestures at the rocker panels—“they’re basically just raw Heimrath kneels down and feels the lower half of the car with his fingers—it’s too smooth, too. “In the assembly plant, they would buff only what you could see—basically above the beltline and the body,” he continues.
“Nobody at the plant cared about the bottom. If you look at an original car, there’s no paint under here”—Heimrath gestures at the rocker panels—“they’re basically just raw fibreglass.”
Dakazman
-
So you need crappy paint to win a concours? Sorry D-man, you’re screwed! :FUNNY:
t
-
Lol Surf,
Well then the fender flares would also be a point reduction? I wanted a Scca battery kill switch , also a reduction, dash another deduction? Now I know why I stay away from contests. Ordered a European walnut veneer today and excited for it to come in .
Also while going thru the original service manual found some old receipts from original owner that was from the Massachusetts area , from a place called tingles.ouch what a bill that was... Then the car moved to South Carolina, then Georgia and finally to me in Florida.
Dakazman
-
Tingles used to be one of the "Usual Suspects" of suppliers. He retired a while ago and he is really a good guy.
I know that generally an "original" car does better at sale time than a modified car. Relating that fact to the recently revealed Bullitt Mustang. Should it be restored? To what level? The way it looked in the movie? A pristine example? Just freshened and repainted?
So, should a real concours Europa have the crappy fit and finish that they were delivered with?
Surf is right, you'd probably loose points on your paint job! But be aware that at all LOGs have a "People's Choice Concours" where people vote their preference and that's where you'd get your just desserts!
-
Thanks BDA,
Oh , I remember the crappy finishing of 70s on cars other than a Lotus. They were bad..,
I just need to read more about this new to me , judging . I read that if you take a class of judging you receive points..., and lose points for newly chromed items... I’m glad there is a People’s Choice . Whew ,
I can’t wait to see some pictures from log38. I think some will be on Instagram link and maybe even Facebook.
Dakazman
-
A good friend of mine does high end restoration of very expensive sports cars. He just finished a 100 point car. The level of detail and knowledge needed is simply amazing to do a proper restoration.
I’m not interested in a concourse quality show car. I want to drive mine. By the way, I still win plenty of awards at car shows with my Elan S1. I’m hoping same when I finish my Europa.
-
Tingles Lotus Center in Tewksbury MA was relatively close to where I live. Unfortunately they are no more. Aged out, I guess. There is another place near me called Burnett's Garage that specializes in MGs and Triumphs. Great, I said, gotta get to know these guys. They took one look at the Europa and shook their heads. "That's way too exotic for us" the old guy said. "It shares half its parts with a Triumph!" I said. "Sorry, but we just can't work on that." he said. Sheesh! :headbanger:
-
Yes, Don Tingle retired a few years back.
If they are afraid to work out a Europa, I wouldn't take my Triumph or MG there! But speaking of people being afraid to work on a Europa, I've been trying for months to find someone to replace my windshield and almost nobody wants to touch it even though I told them I already had the new windshield!
-
BDA - is the new windshield identical in construction and thickness to the old one, or has it been updated? Is the old one damaged?
-
My current windshield is the original windshield. It still has the paper sticker in the upper left hand corner from new. Unfortunately, it attracted a stone on the highway and so developed a star in the upper right hand corner. I normally wouldn't worry about it (at least till it grew) but I'm planning on having a tint put on the top since I don't have visors in my car. The heat gun they use in applying the tine would likely cause the crack in the star to grow. The star is too close to the edge for the star repair tool to be used so it's really not reparable - at least while it's on the car.
My replacement windshield is a Plinkington so it should be an exact replacement (We'll see on Thursday when the guy I finally found will be replacing it but I'm not worried. Plinkington windshields are correct by all accounts and they were the OE supplier back in the day).
The odd thing is that when I was building the car back in 1998, I called a windshield guy to install my windshield. He said he could do it but wouldn't guarantee that it wouldn't leak. I thanked him and then called another guy. He said he could do it so I made the appointment. When he was about half done, I told him about the first guy and he said that he wouldn't guarantee it wouldn't leak either! Well, he was half done so I wasn't going to tell him to pack up and leave. It turned out that I've never had a problem with leaks. This time, I've probably called two dozen places before I found one who would do it.
-
Ah, I see. I just wondered if the new replacement might be lighter or stronger than the original.
-
Getting some parts in for the brake halves still waiting on my he stainless pistons.
European walnut veneer came in and looks amazing. Does anyone have the correct stain color name?
I’ post some pictures of the lot of 3 panels.
I just also want to pass on a vendor not mentioned here before on a wealth of electronics, wiring, connections, backup cameras, gauges,switches...etc . Del City found them on the internet and ordered and received a free catalog of some great products . Not affiliated at all but thought you may like.
Dakazman
-
A quick price check on Del City has Ancor marine grade 16 ga wire (stuff I use a lot of on the boat) for $.28/ft. West Marine sells the exact same stuff for $.59/ft, or more than double the price of Del. Nice find D-man, thanks for the tip!
-
In the same vein, AES is an electrical supplier in the UK that has the best prices and stock that I have found for Lucas parts. They don't seem to be on the usual lists of suppliers.
https://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/
-
Gideon, I’ll have to check it out further, at first glance I did not see a catalog link.
Promised a picture of the veneer..It was a lot of 3 in the size that I needed. Which one to choose?
Dakazman
-
If you are really going for an over-the-top look you could attempt a bookmatched veneer. Cut and flip 2 strips lengthwise and butt together in the middle. More Daniel Starke than Colin Chapman, but hey, why not? :beerchug:
Tom
-
Sorry surf , this was an uphill battle to repair original. About 32 hours in on it now and still not done .
Glued veneer early yesterday and trimming still. I need to find the decals for all the switches. Someone had them. Then seal with glaze coat.
Dakazman
-
I believe r.d. has them.
-
Thanks BDA,
You were right about sealing the dash, I paid more attention to the side laminate where the moisture separated the plywood, causing more glue to be pumped in. Especially around both vents and were found when the plies went under my fingernails. Laughing now but man that hurts.
Another item you were correct on was wiring colors Many of my white and black wires actually are , were) Striped wire paint white , a previous color of the car and black wires that were in the engine compartment and the radiator area. Cleaning up slowly and will post progress.
Dakazman
-
Double dash time , original and one that I can play with some ideas. Del city has to many toys!
Dakazman
-
Dash brackets,
I documented the dimensions of all brackets and will post soon in case anyone needs to fabricate them. They would be very simple to reproduce most. I also will have the flasher holder dimensions and a replacement aluminum angle to swap out the knee guard cushion bracket.
Dakazman
-
Dash has a second coat of polyurethane, I will wait for the decals to arrive from R&D before sealing any further.
A BIG ,Thank You, to all the posting of info and members on this site .
I’m been taking it easy lately because it 100 degrees with the same humidity level. Most of all a completed honey do list.😀....
dakazman
Ps. Here are some toys I may add to the other dash. Thumbs up /down?
-
The dash looks good and I assume the "license plate lamp" will be used to illuminate the dash which is a good idea. The led tipped toggle switches are pretty nice, too. The only thing I would change is I'd try to find an LED indicator (all lights, really).
-
Hey BDA .,
A little darker than I thought it would be but oh well.
I’m not going to use the license plate lamp in the interior..., lol , license plate ,yes. Del city catalog is packed with goodies Talked to George at R&D very informative, also ordered a Europa emblem for the engine cover.
I have an intake manifold coming from Germany for the cross flow engine, just for a single Weber carb., that should be here any day now.😀😀 . Also picked up a distributor for same, so much for my budget.
Dakazman
-
G'day, Dakazman,
Dash looks great to me . . but just a tip.
If you're going to paint the edges of the switch holes dark brown like the factory, now is the time to do it before you apply further coats of poly.
That way, you can sand off any slip-ups on the face and achieve a very crisp line.
On the licence plate light, it appears the one pictured is intended to be mounted vertically, not horizontally?
Cheers,
Gavin
-
Looking good Dakazman! Your certainly motivated and making nice progress.
-
Number plate lamp. I don’t know about US licence plate sizes but I think the light you a showing might stick down to far and cover a bit of the plate. This link:
https://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-98424-number-plate-light-number-plate-lamp-special-with-clear-lens-hella-2ka-001-378-001.aspx
Is the original Lotus/Hella lamp without bulb so you can fit a festoon LED.
Don’t do what I did, I changed all my lamps for LEDs including the alternator/battery light. This light will not go out when you rev up as the load on the alternator is not high enough to switch on charging. You should keep or get a 2W tungsten bulb.
Cheers, Stuart
-
It’s a good idea to fit a shunt resistor to the alternator warning light. That way it will charge even if the bulb blows — or you fit an LED bulb.
-
They , del city have an assortment of plate lights, side lights , brake lines , backup cameras, switches and more. I only posted a few candy items . I have not purchased any item yet but compiling a list .
Please do not jump on these but order there catalog.
Dash received the second coat of polyurethane yesterday and I sanded with 400 grit, 1st coat with 220 . I did not use an exacto knife at any point. The grain varied way to much . The dremmel works the best with a fine cutting tool appropriately 1/4 inch away from cutout. Then I used a larger sanding disc on the dremmel to shave to the plywood slowly. Stepping down the sanding docs diameter to shave smaller holes. Always from the underside up. Final trimming was done with very fine files.
Gauges and switches were fitted again. The high and lows can be seen as glossy and flat areas.
I will go go with another coat of varnish to deminish the glossy areas before applying decals.
Dakazman
Beer is optional after 5.
-
Does heinaken work well as a solvent? 😀
-
Gary t
Lol .
Continued with cleaning gauges, I watched Serge’s video on it also. My tach and speedo had some sort of black sealant between glass and chrome bezel that I will need the reinstall once I come up with a part. I could use a large, thick O ring . Mil spec . Cleaned up nicely! I will need to find some test procedures on them. Need more time in a day! Lol....
Dakazman
-
FYI - there are some videos on YouTube for testing Smiths gauges.
-
The “black sealant” you found is an o-ring in an advanced state of decomposition. Not unusual after all that time. The usual British parts suppliers have them.
-
Thanks guys, I’ll look into the videos and O ring info now that I’m heading in the right direction.
Still waiting for my brake calipers , apparently I forgot to place the order for another 2. Now that that is solved, I’ll post that job completion pictures.
Also Putting back together another heater unit after refurbished and painted. Idea was to sell it but now I just may keep it.
Sanded dash 2nd coat with 400 grit , most of the hi/lows are gone. 3rd coat going on.
Dakazman
-
Gauges cleaned up nicely :D. I ordered a smiths water temp gauge so all will match. The SW was an eye sore.
The dash decals arrived but with no instructions on placement, so I’ll be researching that tonight along with the testing of all mentioned. Back to sanding dash, later..
Dakazman
-
More nice work, D-man! :beerchug:
-
Found the gauge testing procedures on :
http://www.lotus-europa.com/manuals/misc/electrical/gauges.html
The S2 federal wiring diagram is incorrect on the lotus documents page. I doubt one one the previous owners installed some wiring inside the harness assembly. The addition, (modification) is two switches for the flv fan and the radiator. The onnees manual does not show this also , yet I have two switches.
With that said I checked some of the notes, s/n 7001xxxxxxxon print, hmmmm, I’m 7006xxx so it , the diagram should be correct. Did someone add an extra switch ?
I also am adding a picture of an s2 federal 1970 dash facia layout, any comments and corrections would be appreciated. I am using the individual words that are on the decals so feel free to correct the placement. Location also , top/bottom.
Dakazman
-
Very common to add an extra switch for the rad fan.
-
Thanks again JB,
I thought it might have been done by the factory, but they forgot to add a federal change.
I’m also very comfortable with the layout now , remember I have never driven or rode in one. Reading the owners manual and the lotus documents page on Electric’s gave me more to think about. Modified voltage regulator for one and something to protect coil if hazard and turn indicator left on.
Dakazman
-
The early cars did have a switch to turn on the rad fan. The heater fan is a single speed fan but the switch is three position: off — heater fan on — heater and rad fan on. Not sure when they deleted it but S1s and early S2s had it.
Unfortunately, they also used the rad fan from the R16. It’s a puller fan so they wired it backwards (that’s why you get the black power/red ground in the wiring diagram). No way to reverse the fan blades so it pushes way less air than it pulls. Ok-ish in cool moist UK, rubbish in hot, dry anywhere else.
-
Once again, I’m glad to be digging in and researching these cars. That top 3 position flasher switch is listed as a spare switch on 1470 else models and 4 stages of optional equipment.
I found one picture of a dash that shows placement of the decals on dash but still not legible. Hope some people chime in so I can seal the real decals in place.
Dakazman
-
Started the Breaking down of steering column . Found the headlight switch overheated. I will try to disassemble and repair. I need some guidance on removing the bushings from the upper column. R&D does stock them, and remove the upper shaft.
Secondly I would like to remove the ignition assembly unit and remove it from the shaft. It was used for a ground. How is this assembly secured to the shaft? We’re they shear bolts? How to change out the ignition switch? Chapter H does not cover this.
Dakazman
-
Yup, shear-bolts. I have had good luck using a punch to loosen them.
The ignition switch is basically the same as a late model Spitfire. Usually there is a grub screw holding the electrical switch in place.
-
Finished disassembly of the column except for the lock assembly removal.
The lower bushing comes out of the upper outer column first while having the inner shaft fully up. In my case I needed to clean off with a wire brush, the shaft itself . Then gently push the rubber raised part of the bushing under the housing. A little wd40 helped them move. The shaft will now come out the bottom of the outer column. Then then top Bushing comes out the same way. There was corrosion inside the bushing even with their brass inserts.
The key housing assembly, not shown in figure 1 section h, has threaded shear bolts!!! Drilled into head and extracted same . See pictures.
Still trying to figure out the lock assembly...see pics ..locksmith maybe???
Dakazman , now for some media blasting. Ps , I wonder where mag light got there idea for a torch or flashlight..😀
-
Pictures
-
Finished blasting, should I just polish it up?
Dakazman
-
Playing around a little yesterday and today with some little pieces while I had the tooling out.
Just some backer board laid up with Matt glass on one side and some leftovers on the other . Door inserts on the cheap.
-
Along with that I started on the turn indicator switch the looked over heated.
Removed spring on lower side . Drill out rivet flange. Tap out gently. Circuit board is cracked and so it may have an open in the circuit! I have some circuit board and some copper sheet , it might work.
Dakazman
-
I met a guy at the LOG in Asheville who put a relay on all the major circuits - window switch, headlights, etc. presumably, turn signals and emergency flashers were included in his list. It sounded like a good idea.
-
Luckily,Found this problem before steering column cracked completely. At some point in its lifetime it was loose in the forward mount. Just a little heads up . Bring it to a welder soon since I never learned to weld aluminum. Maybe one day!
Dakazman
-
Sounds like a good idea, as long as you document what you do to your car and pass it along when you sell it. Or post your build here on this site .
JB s air conditioner system I will definitely copy soon.
Dakazman
-
I didn't do it on my car and I didn't look at the details of what he did. He said it was easy to do and that it didn't look much different from stock (presumably except for the existence of a few relays). I didn't quiz him on it but I presume he took the battery voltage from after the ammeter. I guess the switched side is what deserves the fuse.
-
BDA, I briefly looked at a diode relay pfd on the document page. It certainly would be beneficial. I counted the strands of wire to determine the gage, all were 28 strands. Another paperweight I would like to get rid of is db10.
I finally received the stainless calipers today and installed. I totally forgot to order 2 others bc I was unsure if they were correct, the two separate orders added to my cost. I purchased two more brake assemblies to resell but just may keep. Yikes, I’m becoming a hoarder! With that said I reconditioned a heater unit witch was also completed and a water temp gage.
I decided to just identify the basic items on the dash and sealed them in place, after several more coats I can start resembling.
Dakazman
-
I know what you mean about hoarding parts. When I think about when I built my car, I marvel that I was able to store all that stuff in a way that I could find it again and keep track of it so I didn't have too many dupes!
Great job on the temp gauge. I'm surprised it doesn't have numbers. I thought they all did.
The dash is really looking good! That grain is pretty.
Keep up the good work!
-
BDA,
The water temp gage is from a mg , I picked it up off eBay because it matched the other Smiths’ gauges and had the same rounded bezel instead of a peak 45 degree .
Dakazman
-
Progress ...at last!
Sanded , rubbed out with paste wax and buffed. Just the test inserts but dash is sanded and rubbed.
Dakazman
Ps, a Japanese owners car in white😀
-
You do great work Dakazman! Too bad we don’t live closer to each other.....
-
G'day, Dakazman,
Are you going to paint the edges of the switch holes dark brown like the factory?
The edge of the ply will be visible otherwise.
Cheers,
Gavin
-
Hey Gavin,
Thanks for telling me what color the edges were, I almost did black👍👍,which I thought would be to much of a contrast. Thanks again
Dakazman
-
Certified, thank you!
So many details to research, parts that I thought I could just throw back in turn out to need some attention. Trying to stay focused and not doing modifications to a point. Still to humid and hot to paint even small parts . Another month or two and that should change.
Dakazman
-
I almost did black . .
I did mine black because I had the pigment on hand and couldn't be fagged chasing down some brown.
Ooops . . :))
-
Progression of door cards, door pulls in 5518 stainless and mold of tach/speedo.
Dakazman
-
That's going to look nice!
-
More glass work on these two items , then a mold. The original plastic is way to flimsy so I made it out of glass and can paint or apply a covering . I’m thinking gloss black on entire console.😀
Dakazman
-
Looks good, Dman! Since you have molds, you can make $$ making them for people! :)
-
Still just puttering around this week working on the molds ,steering column, w/w closeouts but building the circuit board was fun. Also picked up a manifold for my cross flow engine.😀
-
Steering column and turn switch coming along with the turn switch passing all tests. The dash was finally painted black on the inside edge of glove box and speedo/ tach. A few other firewall plates were also made with stainless steel plate.
Dakazman
-
Rebuilding /fabricating numerous parts and finally hung the wiring harness.
Routed and untangled as I secured it to a mock-up board . Next I will transpose the breakouts in the runs and unwrap the rest of the harness, check wire by wire with schematic and replace runs that are inconsistent.
Add a few extras for future use also afterward . Starting to notice a drop in the humidity so painting season will soon start. I’m glad I missed my deadline because the clear coat on my car really constricted and shows some hi and lows in the glass fibers. The engine cover also needs repairs bc I stored it upside down for about two weeks and the support structure bent upwards , resulting in seeing a big x from the top side.
Dakazman
-
Do yourself a favour and fit a reduction gear starter. Works much, much better.
-
I agree with JB. The only disadvantage is that the gear reduction turns the motor much slower getting oil pressure from cranking the starter takes longer. That's a minor point, though.
-
Your wiring harness is a work of art D-man! Beautiful, but intimidating! As I recall you do/did aircraft wiring for a living. Did you include any innovations or upgrades over the original design, like extra wires for fog lights or a back-up camera, or heavier gauge wire for up-rated components? Would this pass FAA inspection? :beerchug:
Tom
-
Lol
Definitely FAA inspection, just the basics now. Wire size , color, improvements all later. I will also add the battery and all components to it.
Dakazman
-
Going over the federal s2 print and I did find some flaws in the db10 relay somewhat minor but could add to your trouble shooting if looking for the reason your rear hazards aren’t working. The second can be added simply with a footnote on the wire junction plug stating all junctions are 8” away from db10 and the second is dB 10 term 3 and 7do not show a junction which is as pictured. I also noted that on the other prints for the special and others that have this relay db10 term 4 does not show the junction, but I cannot verify there is one , but it’s only logical.
Another minor note is the hazard relay black wire is actually green/brown out of relay plug with a junction to black.
Dakazman
-
I’m going cross eyed looking at this schematic but nearing the end of checking item ,run color and double checking these finds. I need to pass some of these points out there. Feel free to check into these and maybe we can verify them correct as an original harness goes. Also for workability.
The need to add the window washer pump and switch to the federal s2? Consisting of the blue/red and a black ground wire to momentary push button switch to a power source ..not attached on my harness correctly bc I believe the po hooked up two grounds to the switch one red and one black.
The brake fluid level sensor red/black wire has a junction behind dash is not documented on schematic, and for clarity add a short ground legend instead of running it all the way to a chassis ground on the other side of the sheet. Just my 2cents.
The interior light pink/black wire to junction block , marked on sheet needs to have the corresponding side to be labeled “PW” .
Lastly is a question about the courtesy light switches, are they door jamb switches?
I will rearrange the mock-up board and add some other items that I have laying around. Hope I can find a buzzer in the boxes that came with the car.
JB and BDA I will use a tear reduction starter but I just wanted to put a starter on the board.
Dakazman
-
PW is Purple White, not Pink White.
No Europa came with an electric washer pump. Easy to add but the wee manual pump works well, too.
Yes, courtesy light switches are in the door-jam. There is also a switch on the lamp itself.
Tear-reduction... I like it !
-
You do good work Dakazman! I had never thought of putting the wiring on a board to trace out. Will remember that. I have 8x blow ups made of the wiring diagrams and mount them on foam core so they are easy to read and handle.
Yes on the gear reduction starters. I have one in each of my cars.
I had to replace the door jam courtesy light switches as mine had rusted. RD has them, although they have a different thread size (which isn’t an issue unless your building a concours car for judging).
-
Minor correction to JB's post. I believe the TCs had electrical washer pumps. At the least, the Specials had them - mine did.
-
Thanks JB , the washer pouch looked original , see pictures, however the wires were not in the originally wrapped harness and i show it entering thru the firewall grommet. Another decision to make as too keep or toss. If I keep I will correctly add into harness and document on a addendum to to schematic.
Yes I said pink/white, purple/white , PW still needs to be added as clarification what color wire your looking for when hooking up the PB term.
Certified, where on the jamb does the switch go ? See pictures dash/switch/wire run from aft forward?
Dave
-
Thanks BDA, I’ll look into that schematic. I just post a pic of the wash bag.
Dave
-
That's an aftermarket washer switch, US supply.
Thanks for the correction with regard to the specials. Makes sense as they had the more modern switch gear with all the functions controlled by column stalks.
Can't help with the door switch as I have an early car.
-
Feeling a little dumb here, but is the OEM washer a manual pump activated by pushing inwards on the right side column stalk? I've never driven my car in the rain or filled the washer reservoir, so that's news to me. Every day is a learning experience.
Just a thought, if that is the case, a neat upgrade would be a cheap pressure switch connected to the stalk pump to switch on an electric washer pump, probably through a relay.
Tom
[Correction] Oops, I missed BDA's post. Yes, I think my TCS has an electric pump also.
-
The TCS (and probably the TC) uses the Spitfire signal/wiper stalks. You push on the stalk to squirt the washer and the wipers are multi speed and "intermittent" - when you push up on the stalk, the wipers cycle once. They are actually pretty nice.
-
For the record, 1265R (type 65, built '71) had an electric washer pump behind the dashboard. From memory, the wiring looked original and was wrapped in the harness, unlike the couple of obvious electrical modifications made by the PO which were amateurish and used all red wire of the wrong gauge.
-
All Europas used "Triumph" column switches. Only the specials used the later, plastic multi-switches.
Might have been neatly done but no S2s came with an electric washer pump.
-
Just a thought, if that is the case, a neat upgrade would be a cheap pressure switch connected to the stalk pump to switch on an electric washer pump, probably through a relay.
Interesting, as I read this thread I was thinking how cool it would be to convert my Special from electric to manual pump. ;)
How well do the manual pumps work? Are they difficult to operate? I'm going to have to look into these.
-
Interesting, as I read this thread I was thinking how cool it would be to convert my Special from electric to manual pump. ;)
How well do the manual pumps work? Are they difficult to operate? I'm going to have to look into these.
The manual pump works reasonably well in that it will push some water onto the screen and even far enough up to be useful. But that's about it. To operate you obviously have to take a hand from the steering wheel to the dash and until you're completely at one with the car, you'll probably take your eyes off the road.
If you really, really want one then they were fitted to lots of UK cars in the 60s, Ford Cortina for example. You'd need both the switch & pump behind it plus the chrome bezels to fit it properly. You might even need to modify the dash ? I'm not sure without looking at the TC & TCS handbooks.
Brian
-
I see, the parts list shows an electric washer pump for TCS-Fed only, suggesting euro-TCS's had the manual pump.
Bainford, I like the way you think!
Is the washer fluid "colostomy bag" a readily available replacement part? I don't see them on rdent.com. The part number appears in the Dave Bean price list, but that doesn't mean they have stocked that part in the last century.
t
-
I've seen the washer bags at different places. I suspect r.d. has them but you'd have to call them. Bean probably has them, too. Moss has them (https://mossmotors.com/washer-pouch?assoc=33256) though these are not clear.
-
Virtually every British parts supplier offers a washer bag with the pump built in.
-
When I went looking for a washer bag, I saw a lot with an attached pump. The TCS Federal (just looked it up in the parts manual and that was the only model with the electric pump), has the pump mounted on the back of the dash board so the original bag was just a bag. I do think having the pump at the bag is a better idea, though. If it needs to be replaced, it is MUCH easier to get to and it should pump better, too.
-
I just tested my pump and bag . Good news no leaks and the water pumps out a a good rate .
But,
It sounds like a angry swarm of humming bees , definitely not going into car . But I will add the wiring into the harness. Now I’ll just have to buy the manual type system parts.
Dakazman
-
The additional hole on the driver's door jamb is for another door switch that goes to the logic box used on the Type 74.
(http://www.lotuseuropa.org/gallery/albums/album13/Logic_Box.sized.jpg)
-
Lotus Joe,
Are you referring to this question ‘“Certified, where on the jamb does the switch go ? See pictures dash/switch/wire run from aft forward?
The dash mount bracket attaches to the far aft hole , that leaves one for the door switch and the other for the wiring harness for the power window motor and door speakers. I have an s2 fed.
Are you saying type 74 have 4 holes in jamb? Or am I missing something?
Dakazman
Rearranged my mock up board a little further so to make a little more room to work on.
-
I dug out the dashboard when I got home, feeling sure that I could remember an electric washer pump. But it turns out that I had mistaken the manual washer pump for an electric one. The wiring was original, but it's only for the wipers. J.B. was right (as usual).
-
That’s guys , Gideon correct on JB getting it correct. Made some mods and this is what I expect.
Dakazman
-
Amazing work, Dman! It sure looks like you're planning on adding new electrical components (did you already tell us about that?)!
-
So, Captain Aerospace, is there a better alternative to wrapping wire bundles in black electrical tape that gets all nasty and brittle (or gooey) after a few years?
t
-
I wouldn't be surprised if there was a better alternative to black wiring loom tape, but you should know that the tape for wiring looms is not electrical tape. It has no gum on it so it doesn't get gooey.
-
Guys , I was joking with the mod pic!
BDA is correct but I don’t know what the automotive people call it. It’s just black wrap.
Surf , I like permacel products, P421 and others at https://www.e-aircraftsupply.com/aircraft_products/file/aircraft-products.aspx
Also http://www.firesleeveandtape.com/dms2186-mcdonnel-douglas-boeing-electrical-insulating-mil-spec-tape.html
excellent tape that will bond to itself and stretches .
-
Guys , I was joking with the mod pic!
Well, I'm glad to hear that! Your picture was impressive but I thought somebody should remind you that white wires are hot with ignition on and unfused! :)
-
Surf,
I’m considering using wire looms available all over, mostly free at salvage yards. Mainly just in front of bulkhead and in engine compartment and rearward. The tape the looms closed .
BDA, you were certainly correct about the coloring gr lg and black as grounds are killing me. I will order the white wires, black,red as you mentioned and a lot of green
Dakazman
-
That "conduit" is good stuff. I wish I had used it - I don't remember now why I didn't. I used spiral plastic cover which protects the wires REALLY well but it is impossible to add a circuit without wrapping the new wires separately.
I have to admit that for a lot of my added circuits are white, brown, black, or green so I didn't follow the standard as well as I probably could, but I think that's a lot better than not following it at all since it tells you basically what's going on.
Speaking of the Lucas standard, I was working with a guy on his Caterham 7. One of the tail light ground wires was not black and it didn't look like something the PO might have butchered (there was a lot of wiring the PO did butcher)! I was amazed!
-
Lotus Joe,
Are you referring to this question ‘“Certified, where on the jamb does the switch go ? See pictures dash/switch/wire run from aft forward?
The dash mount bracket attaches to the far aft hole , that leaves one for the door switch and the other for the wiring harness for the power window motor and door speakers. I have an s2 fed.
Are you saying type 74 have 4 holes in jamb? Or am I missing something?
Dakazman
Rearranged my mock up board a little further so to make a little more room to work on.
I'm referring to the two holes on the driver side (Left) of a late model type 74. As you say one is for the interior light switch and the other is for the logic box switch. And then there is the third which is used for the door window motor. In the case of the S-2 the additional hole was used for the key buzzer.
-
Joe thank you for the answers but now I have more questions. I have a type 65.It also has that same switch.
I have the aluminum guide that mounts in jamb facing outward that contain the window and speaker wires and I assume the stem protrudes into the huge hole in the door . Is there any grommet in the door assembly? See pictures.
I also show the dash mount bolt that was used as a ground , it mounts in the far aft jamb hole .
See picture. They used it as a ground for the buzzer circuit. Don’t figure. Don’t even look at the
Wiring to the switch assembly...😟 it was butchered.
That leaves one hole for the curtesy switch or the door switch, buzzer.
Dave
-
It’s been awhile since I posted to this thread but now finishing the paint job . One reason was a po repair to the fender where a mirror or antenna was located it looked tight at the time so I left in in .
The problem was it was not repaired from the lower side anchoring it in so it lifted . Second reason was my fault when maneuvering it into garage hit the stucco/cement 😢.repaired a bit ago but did not paint . A little annoyed covered the car and worked on something else.
All good now ! Time to get started again.
Dakazman
-
Big Thank You to Johnmi,
Today I received an original manifold for my wedge engine. John it was worth the wait even though I thought It was lost forever.
-
It’s was 72 degrees here today, no humidity and no wind , so out came the cleaning equipment and painting equipment... the results are just about as perfect as I can ask for .
Tomorrow i’l start sand and buffing up the parts.
Dakazman
-
Really nice! That's deep black paint!
-
I was originally going to paint my Europa black but I changed my mind when I found all the factory hand written notes on the interior of the car (after I pulled the interior out) that said yellow in several places.
So I’ll look at your Black Europa with envy Dave.
-
BDA, It is the base in any black color , but this is just that G9900/ activator and the proper temp thinner. Next to any black , It will make them look brownish.
Certified, I did not see any markings inside mine , just engraved buid nbr on both doors. Build plate shows Sand ... not a chance of that happening. Sorry guys who have that color.
Dakazman
-
Back again and happy with the reflections of the finish this time . Black mirrors show every flaw.
Slowly block sanding and now at 3000 grit wet . 4000 and 5000 to go .
Dakazman
-
You do such good work Dave.
-
Thanks certified, finding time to work on it in between the honey do’s is frustrating but probably better on my sanding arm . your car is looking amazing. Any stripes going on yours?
Dakazman
-
I don’t think I’m going to stripe my car. I’ve been back an forth on it and have seen a number of cars with no stripes that I like. But I won’t really know until I have it reassembled and sitting in my driveway.
How about you, are you going to stripe?
-
I was and still thinking about a single wide gold stripe down the center of car but that would mean adding another several coats of clear over the entire car. I have the gold paint and enough clear coat but then again , I would like to finish and drive it . I still need to finish up the engine and the rest .
Confused yet ...
So ,I have time to think about and still move forward on the rest of it . Once I start mounting items on the body, Paint is DONE.
Dave
-
Sanded the doors today down to 5000 grit . Compounding and polished up using the 3m 3step process. The results of a second set of clear coats is amazing. Well I’ll let you judge.
Dakazman
-
I’m impressed!
-
More black mirrors! :beerchug:
-
I think you could call that "shiny"...... :)
Brian
-
Amazing! Well done.
-
NICE
-
What a great result, looks better than most paintshops deliver.
Are you not a little worried to damage your beautyfull work, when you replace the doors?
I am thinking, when I will be painting mine, I will do it with the doors hinged (and opened)
But seeing your results I am getting more confident that good results can be reached.
I am now in the proces of sanding my Saab V4 1967 (also fiberglass) and so my Europa has to wait a little.
The lotus I bought is already stripped from its old paint, but someone sprayed primer thats already falling off.
Probably wrong paint or bad prep/ cleaning.
-
Great job, the paint looks fantastic.
-
Nice reflection on your workmanship D-man! :beerchug:
Tom
-
Thanks again guys . I thought I would be posting some more pictures today but I rebuilt a neighbors wheelchair instead , vintage of course, but no painting required. The company and beers are great.
Spring is here so the wife found more outside projects to turn my attention to. Lol 🥰. 82 degrees here today and the trees are starting to bloom. Last chance to trim the trees.
Bert, when I got the car one door was hanging off and one was on but hard to open. I will have clear Mylar tape on the doors and jamb area when reassembling for sure. My son in law and I painted his 150 truck in one day with some small dent work . So it was sanded primed / sealed/ color and cleared in the same day.
-
That's quicker and better than Earl Scheib!
-
BDA, yes, my MGA was painted there but I taped it up . $39.95 paint special.
Circa 1973. I have to post some of my 3m slides that I converted to digital.
Tom, yes, bending the reflection is what I s all about. 😝
Dave
-
Spring is here so the wife found more outside projects to turn my attention to. Lol 🥰. 82 degrees here today and the trees are starting to bloom. Last chance to trim the trees.
Don't rub it in for us Northern neighbors! Spring is supposed to be here, the weather had other ideas. Beer time anyway. :beerchug:
My MGB is somewhere lost in the barn. At least I can putter on my Lotus.
-
70, I didn’t mean to rub it in . The first pick shows it snowing.., looks beautiful . Your garage looks to be separate from your garage . My wife would love to have me away from the house. I can’t believe how much stuff must be in garage, a Mgb? So your going to be on barnfind one day? 😂 Thanks for the snow pics , fun to play in but I hatted to work in it.
Dakazman
Dave Kaz
-
70, I didn’t mean to rub it in . The first pick shows it snowing.., looks beautiful . Your garage looks to be separate from your garage . My wife would love to have me away from the house. I can’t believe how much stuff must be in garage, a Mgb? So your going to be on barnfind one day? 😂 Thanks for the snow pics , fun to play in but I hatted to work in it.
Dakazman
Dave Kaz
Joking of course! The barn is my future workshop. I have very limited power down there now but maybe this year I'll move it to the top of my list. My wife wants a new kitchen and door handles (today's job). Got to balance it.
Talking of barn finds, I got a lead on a large barn a few hours from me that might have a few Loti and numerous other goodies in it. Almost scared to check it out although one of my buddies with money wants to come with me. Weather permitting we will get the ugliest car we own and hit the road.
My wife thinks I'm a grumpy old guy but this is the first year in 10 that I've been home this time of year. Oh well, spring is coming and I have a Lotus road trip planned to Portland at the end of March.
-
70’,
I love treasure hunts , good picking, keep us posted.
Dakazman
-
Some of you know the pain that I have gone thru to finally finish this piece of the puzzle. Worked on it for part of the day and although it still needs some work is looking great.
While I was cleaning up , I noticed the vette now needs some attention.
Dakazman
-
Focus... focus... first things first!
Looks great!
-
Thanks BBA , my focus will be on my the Europa . I just purchased the remaining items that I needed for the body cosmetics, bumper bolts, nomenclature , etc. . The wife’s to do list are a completely different subject...lol. I also received the final part for my Original motor. The 821-30 intake but..., the 843 hemi is close behind. I may even decide to assemble it myself, mainly because the nearby machinist will do the work but not assemble it.
I all can do is the best I can do. I believe I have the capability of the assembly but have time to make those decisions . So hemi / wedge we’ll see.
Other in work projects are the harness, console, instrument bezel, seat frames, brake lines, ...etc,etc. Nor complaining but just step by step.
Dakazman
-
I need a rest after finishing my wife’s list of honey do’s , I sand most of the body To 5000 , my goal without burning thru that layer of clear.? I did it...😀. Almost,🙁but the fix is easy since it’s on the panel with the gas cap. I can type it out and respray and sand out.
Can’t wait to polish this out since my good arm is starting to say ,...enough.😀
-
Polishing up some intakes for the hemi head engine, dual Weber’s configuration. Trying out some new tools I made to do the job.
But I’ll post them after I resize them.
Dakazman
-
I need to split up some progress today. An original 821-30 manifold from the UK was overhauled.
Cut down and repainted .
-
The tooling projects are as shown.
First is a valve spring compression tool that I Place in my drill press and lock it down so I can install or remove the keepers. I only wish I had a gauge to check spring pressure.
Third picture is a sanding rod made by cutting a slot down the center and placing a sanding belt thru it.
Dakazman
-
Interesting stuff, D'man! I remember shimming valve springs back when I was racing but I don't remember how I determined how much to shim! Boy, that was a long time ago!
-
Staying on focus , trying to put an end to the Painting. JB mentioned a perfect job changes in a few months , he is so correct but hopefully 2 layers of complete painting and finishing will stay like this.
Sanded to 5000 and compounded with 3m , 3 step process step 1 orange pad . now at step 2, polishing white / black pad . step 3 no accomplished yet but it’s more polishing with a blue pad.
Then glaze , after 6 months wax.
Dakazman
-
Wow! I would be afraid to put it back together. Put it under lights in your living room.
-
I’m drooling Dave. I really wanted a black Europa and now I’m very envious. Really nice work!
-
Amazing stuff, D'man! Love those black mirrors! :beerchug:
-
Thanks guys,
If all goes well , the plan is to have the members instruct me to what item to install next. From a list of things that will move along the process. Just a thought. Example, mount headlights , mount bumpers , since they have been rechromed and just got the bolts. Or start on frame items...?put doors together , etc.
Dakazman
-
It looks like you guys are half frozen today! It’s 80 today down from 87 yesterday and tomorrow is a cool down to 71. I’m been trying to stay focused on the lotus however my wife want me to repair my 6ft block wall 150’ long. I stucco’d a base coat on it and now doing a final coat.
Finished polishing the doors and engine cover, my nemesis...🥴 6 flaws . Ready to start assembling the doors, engine cover mounts. I do not want to place the badges on till I wax the car in 6 months .time.
Stay warm up there!
-
More goodness, D'man!! Are you planning on driving it? It would be a shame to get dings in that paint!
-
BDA, I will be driving it to shows. Ok maybe not, I will give that job to my daughters. Lol.
I learned how to blend the clear so touch ups won’t be a problem. I’m still repainting the left inner engine wing section by the gas filler because of two blisters.
Certified, I did read you wanted black, trust me you made a great decision. I wish I went white ...
Dakazman
-
Dave, I’ve had two black Lotus’ and currently have two black audi’s And a black Toyota Tacoma. I don’t find black cars to be that much harder to keep clean, you just need to keep them washed......all the time :FUNNY:
-
It’s not the washing or upkeep but the amount of defects that stay hidden or less obvious with other colors . The other thing must be the electrical charge I’m generating is causing debris sticking to the finish. Mainly dog and cat hair, it seems it’s that time of the season for it. Not to mention everything is blooming and covers everything in green powder.
The other item is fresh paint should not have a car cover on it according to the manufacturer. No wax either for I believe 6 months but I’ll check the spec sheet again on that.
Dakazman
-
I think I posted early in your build blog I was amazed you were painting with out a booth. Even a temp one. The only time I attempted spraying body parts my friend and I built a temp paint booth to keep all the stuff that floats in the air off the fresh paint. Worked pretty well.
-
Yes you did mention it but the paint defects I’m talking about are small scratches I induced by being agresive in my paper grit choice , moisture in the air compressor line getting past two water separators. The other defect as I call it are just waves in the glass mold at certain views. Similar to a water spot on a mirror. Yes they are small and hard to photograph. The glaze will probably hide them but that makes the panel repair of a burn thru more difficult to break surface for adheasion of more paint.
The specs on Cromax clearcoat wax is 120 days so some pieces are ready for glaze and wax now😀👍👍. So I will start on those sections to test my process and materials.
Dakazman
-
Dave you wet sanding and polishing stamina is very immense. The hard work is paying off. I have a question about paint thickness. How many base coats and how many clear coats did you paint on the car? Will you have enough clear coat depth to polish in the future? As you mention burning through in a few spots? I really want to build up the knowledge so I feel comfortable when I go to paint my first car. It will happen soon!
Cheers,
Ross
-
Rosco, great question. The paint color thickness depends on a lot of different factors of that particular paint translucent paints get darker with every layer and that would look disastrous on a car . Solid colors don’t need to be thick only cover the correct primer or sealer. Prime/ seal / sanding level after complete. The base coat only needs to cover the primers. The base is normally dry in minutes and must be cleared in 15- 30 minutes. You only sand out base coat if you run it. All other particles come off with a tac cloth. Now that you have the base on the first coat of clear is just a light coating. It Will become tacky and hold the next layers (coats) of clear waiting the recommended time between coats
Is very important, to soon the next layer causes white bubbles to form between layers. Waiting to long or not applying another coat will give you less to work with (sand out orange peel) but once lightly sanded you can add another coat of clear . However you can only polish and finish the last layers of clear without blending additives. There are tips on you tube for how to blend a panel and polish out but they recommend repaint of panel.
Now that I’ve rambled on I hope I answer you . There are also single stage painting instructions .
That I won’t start talking about here.
Dakazman
-
Thanks for the info! That is helpful. It’s a start, I need to build up some courage and motivation then it will be painting time.
Ross
-
Ross , you can do it !
Do a small test piece, the engine storage compartment go instance . Sand down, do not use strippers, they stay in the fiberglass and tear their head later. Prime with a good epoxy primer and sand that to a mirror finish, then seal. Then paint , then finish. Watch painting and finishing videos.
Dakazman
Dave Kaz
-
Raining here , so I got a break from painting my house exterior.😁😁
So with some spare time I finally finished my engine cover , and one door glazed and waxed.
I have some parts ordered for the door windows so going around finding parts for that . Need a little more window trim polishing before installing that.
Dakazman
-
Dave, how did you polish you window frames?
-
Certified, they were first sanded down taking off the what was left of the anodized finish. First with 180 grit wet all the way to 2000 . The aluminum was then rebuffed with red and then white rouge.
The aluminum sealer was hand buffed .
Dave
-
Dave, we both have 70 S2's yours is a R code mine is a Q code 7001.020044Q. What is the build date of yours
-
Nice work as always Dave.
-
Thanks certified,
Glass repair!
I recently purchased an extra rear window off Ebay which had deep scratches from a orbital sander so since I had some extra time and dubbed , “the shine man” . We’ll I proceeded to sand out the scores of scratches with 220 on a small hand polisher from harbor freight. Stepped it up 400/800/1000/1500/2000/3000 while on a flat wet surface. Initial sanding with some cerium oxide on the 220 pad until I removed all the initial scratches. Next get the glass clear again. The progress went well getting clearer as I progressed . I failed in a previous attempt on my elcamino doing what I saw on YouTube sanding with a felt pad was futile but made minimal progress well over several hours.
My method almost done was done in about 1-1/2 hours. Just a guide bc I didn’t think it was possible.
Live and learn.
Dakazman
-
Dave, we both have 70 S2's yours is a R code mine is a Q code 7001.020044Q. What is the build date of yours
Sandyman, found a picture of my plates finally. See pics
-
Thanks. I am jealous. You got the big block! Mine is the 1470cc.
-
The blocks are very similar. Minor cylinder seating differences easily changed by a machine shop. Your engine is smaller because you have a short stroke crank.
-
I was just kidding. I plan to zetec and 5 speed mine in 2 to 3 years.
-
Just ending my test window repair and guides on YouTube.
Cerium oxide aided sanding will blend your scratches in glass . Working on it for two more hours today and at first glance it was clear. However it had a funhouse effect. Not to give up I sanded
again. With 2000 grit wet with cerium oxide as the compound I went over holding the 2 inch pad flat as I put moderately heavy pressure on the buffer at high speed.
Continued with 3000 and could see an immediate positive result . Went to 5000 , So judge for yourself. 4hours work plus materials or buy a new one. Small short scratches probably much less man hours.
Do not use the felt pad method .
Dakazman
-
All most,
Excited about my last order for some seals, gaskets bumper bolts and
Stainless steel door pin kit😀 can’t wait to see my shelves of parts going back on the car. The doors forward still need a little more work in the luggage area.
Still painting my house exterior but at least I won’t have to polish it..., lol.
Dakazman
-
21st century black beauty!
-
More great work Dave. I’m envious you are making such great progress. I’ll be in assembly mode with you soon (I hope).
-
Certified, your way way ahead, I feel am stalling and now have more parts ready to go and no time.
Good thing I’m not working. Now that the body is just about done I can get to the frame and engine. 😞after I finish painting the house. Lol.
BDA - BTW I started reading the engine section and learned about BDA engine racing heritage. It’s a great call sign for you. Hope you have one in your engine compartment.👍 I decided to forgo the gold strips since I will have all chrome and polished aluminum as trim . Tinting the windows also.
Dakazman
-
Dakazman that looks incredible!! I was thinking about sanding my engine bay like you have done. You have convinced me!
-
BDA - BTW I started reading the engine section and learned about BDA engine racing heritage. It’s a great call sign for you. Hope you have one in your engine compartment.👍 I decided to forgo the gold strips since I will have all chrome and polished aluminum as trim . Tinting the windows also.
Dakazman
Yup, there's one of those in the back of my car. I've posted some pictures in the gallery (check the main menu). They're a bit out of date but you'll get the idea.
-
Sanding and painting the engine bay after troweling on a mix of chopped strands of matting and resin.
It prevents all the road dirt and oils to be washed out easily. Another plus is less fiberglass splinters and it smells better.
Dakazman
-
Here, I'll give you a direct link to the picture of my engine compartment (http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;pic=13).
By the way, I really like how you finished your engine compartment. I started to try to smooth mine out and then figured, "It's an engine compartment!" I regret now that I didn't continue. It probably wouldn't have come out anywhere near as good as yours, but it would have been a lot better than it is.
-
BDA, WOW, I will do that .
At least now I’ll know what I’m looking at. I thought a twin cam was a twin cam when I looked at them. It’s nice to learn new things at 64.
Dakazman
-
I'm sure you will continue to learn new things going forward. I still am. My problem is the things I'm learning are things I should have learned long ago!
-
BDA, I couldn’t agree more. Add me also.
Posting another window renewal comment and picture. The cerium oxide solution with a orange compounding took out a few scratches and all the water stains. Leaving a squeaky clean surface without any damage and my PPG solarcool roof panels. I highly recommend using this s product.. These were on my vette which was getting neglected lately.
Dakazman
-
Mock up of a spare block 1308. 821-30 bolted in . Soon the gearbox and rear suspension so I can get an accurate perspective of other components.
Dakazman
-
Great!! Now we're getting past the black mirrors! Things are starting to move!
:lotus:
-
New toy in garage.
Took advantage of a sale at harbor freight $149 20 ton press that I’ve been watching for a long time.
I don’t know why a haven’t had one sooner. Can’t wait to install and remove some bearing races and some universal joints.
Dakazman
-
Congratulations, D'man! I've wanted a press for some time, but I just don't need one often enough to spend the money! I do lust for a parts washer but the problem is I don't have room for it! Of course, I don't have room for the press either...
-
The press is parked right next to my toolbox and the legs wrap around the wheels, taking up very little room. I friend who is building a 40 ford pickup just came across a parts washer for free but needed a pump. We’ll share 😆
Another job started yesterday was to rebuild a Weber dgv 32/36 . I all most pronounced it dead but found another rebuild kit at a reasonable price on some needed pieces. An eBay item shows a new one for about $159.00-299.00 . I came across a repair pdf on all models.
Dakazman
-
Congrats on your press! I only use mine a couple of times a month, but every time I use it I need it. You’ll be glad you bought it. One suggestion is to acquire all sorts of small steel plates and short pipes as they will become invaluable in pressing all kinds of objects (I keep mine in a heavy plastic bucket).
-
Dave, as JB has said on another thread, checking the backlash on the trans axle crown gear gives us a level of confidence about the rebuild durability. Pull the bell housing off. Check the backlash ( If not within specs.proceed). I made my own bearing retaining nut tool using a piece of 2 /1/2 in. od pipe with the notches ground out. I marked the existing position of the nut with a sharpie, followed the manual to remove nut. My backlash was within specs, so I just replaced the seal and replaced the nuts back to the mark. Good luck. Ps, frost up here last night.
-
Tested out the new press today and it worked effortlessly pressing out old u-joints. Funny thing is car and driver had another coupon for the same press 8 dollars cheaper 😀. Feel free to use it , good till August. As certified stated you will need an abundance of metal shapes and thicknesses.
The gearbox seals look like they weren’t leaking but who knows if after 25 years I can expect the same. I haven’t measured the lash before so I have some reading to do. I pulled out the primary shaft when moving it so that I as a shock, but it slid back in. I’ll keep all of you posted.
BDA, sharing this washer unit I missed posting yesterday.
-
I don't know about the Europa half-shafts but usually they are balanced assemblies. Mark them and fit the same shafts to the same yokes and axles in the same orientation.
If the Input shaft pulled out, the retaining pin has sheared and should be replaced. Can't remember if it possible to do that with splitting the main cases.
-
I set the back lash on the ring and pinion on my NG3. I expect it to similar but yours may include pinion depth which is not adjustable on the NG3. Here is a thread on my experiences that might be useful: http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=1960.0
-
Pinion depth on the 336 is set by shim and only needs adjusting if you change the ring and pinion.
-
Thanks sandy, JB, BDA. I missed posting the gearbox primary shaft. It doesn’t seem to have anything holding it in place. I may be calling it the primary by mistake. Just checked the parts manual and it does show a roll pin but I believe that is for the coupling. Shown as one piece in manual
JB, I thought they might Have been balanced shafts and wired them together .
Checking backlash is all new to me so I will proceed with caution and further studies.
My next job will be the rear bearings. I found I had a few sets.
Dakazman
-
Input shaft, first motion shaft, primary shaft are all ok with input shaft more likely to be understood. Looks like the input shaft has come loose from the press fit coupler. Get someone with transaxle out to get you the measurement of how far it should protrude. Then clean the shaft and coupler with mineral spirits/paint thinner/brake clean/etc and use green loctite for splines to hold it back in place.
-
Made a trip to the machinist today with a bunch of parts, immediately two of three cams were deemed junk pitted lobes and the other forward section near dowel pin rounded an dowel missing. one of two heads, junk. PO drill d out the stud hold the manifold on and missed center and angled so bad can not get centered again, not to mention a few broken drill bits lodged inside.
So one head and one cam ...one engine. Head being milled and some helicoils going in, and a tube extracted. Also my Chevy head going in for a valve seat and valve that was damaged when the pushrod bent after the rocker arm stud backed out.
I love my press . It’s surpassing all expectations. Certified, a stockpile of metal helps.
Dakazman
-
I’m feeling for you Dave after that trip to the machinist. It’s never the news your looking for. The bright side is you do have some salvageable parts!
Yes on the metal bits to use with your press. Go to a metal fabrication shop and ask them for scraps. They will have everything you could want.
-
Funny but about a three years ago I cleaned out tons of steel copper and aluminum. I still have my shed partially stocked up.
Since the machinist will not build up a motor, I will need to start buying the assembly tools and compounds. It will be a first for me, usually I do a short block and take it from there on American cars. The initial cleaning was done now is all the final inspections, fine tuning, tap and die sets out cleaning out my garage threads. Mounted the block from the rear on the rear on the engine stand.😀
A lot of studying to do reading the manual. So expect more questions.
Dakazman
-
I been reading the manual and cannot find the resurfacing dimension minimum on the flywheel.
Another problem I noticed is that one block I have needs to be milled on the mating surface to the head. Maybe 1-2 thousands inch. To clean up the corrosion. Is this permissible?
Dakazman
-
Cleaned up another block by soda blasting. Taped up journals on crank and blasted. Took the measurements of the mains and rods. Is the next step bolt all the mains and rods together and determine the correct bearings dimensions ?
Dakazman
-
Another problem I noticed is that one block I have needs to be milled on the mating surface to the head. Maybe 1-2 thousands inch. To clean up the corrosion. Is this permissible?
Dakazman
I would think milling the block a couple of thousandths would not be a problem as long as everything else is generally in spec.
Cleaned up another block by soda blasting. Taped up journals on crank and blasted. Took the measurements of the mains and rods. Is the next step bolt all the mains and rods together and determine the correct bearings dimensions ?
Dakazman
I think all you need to do is take the crank, rods, and block to your machine shop and let them order the proper bearings for you based on the dimensions of your crank and main journals. They should do any machining on all that that's necessary. It's unlikely that they'll need to monkey with the rod's big ends or main bores. They should tell you what size bearings you'll need. They may have to work on your piston bores, or crank journals.
Are you going to build the motor or have the machine shop do it?
-
I will build it the machinist will not. He basically just handed it back to me when I brought it down to his shop. Very strange, but was more re than happy to work on my Chevy head.
Dakazman
-
Some machinists are more comfortable working on American iron than foreign motors. Look around for a machinist who is comfortable working on something different.
-
I echo what BDA said. Some guys just don’t want to look up the specs on engines they don’t know. Plus there is the fact that replacement parts are tough to find if something goes wrong.
-
This guy has a great reputation and easy to talk to . It’s sort of a two way street, and I can understand his reluctance to work on the lotus engine.? I’m doing some basics and getting my tooling and sealants ready to order .
Dakazman
-
Bucket-shim overhead cam engines require precise care when overhauling. Shims are readily available in a certain range. You need to machine the seats and valves to suit. It is also very common to deck the head automatically. Not good. Only when needed otherwise the head gets under-sized in a hurry. If you only did push-rod engines, all this was quite a surprise. Nowadays, much less so.
-
I see what you mean. My spare donor engine had three cracked pistons and indents of the valves on the hi compression pistons. The main bearings were scored deeply but the rod bearings were all brand new. The valves and guides are perfect. That is the head that’s going on , when i get to that point.
If all else fails the hemi engine will come up your way to alpine. It to has its problem with one of the head bolt threads pulled out. I keep thinking to use one of the 821-30 blocks for the 843.
Dakazman
-
My bolt collection takes up room and sometimes it’s hard to find that perfect replacement. I worked home construction and excavation, mainly backhoes and the trailers. I also inherited a lot of items from my grandfathers and father that also were in the trades.
So addiction to new hardware is hereditary ,lol. Which pours over to collecting other items. No not pathways in your house either. If I watch that hoarders movie I throw away things the next day. Don’t get me started on computers and maintaining and upgrading them.
So here is my hoard.
-
Having to work slowly due to a pulled back muscle I decided to work on the head the machinist said was garbage. The studs were broken off and drill bit and extraction bits broken off and jammed. They were now off center. So I went to work and extracted the broken items . Next was to round off the hole so I could thread it, Place a bolt in it, cut them off and then redrill a new stud hole.
I’m up to installing bolt but couldn’t find two 7/16. 20 1” bolts.
If all goes well I will have a my original back.
Dakazman
-
Drilling out broken studs. My least favorite job. And don't ask me how many times I have broken the drill bit inside of the broken stud :deadhorse:
-
I received both of my heads back from the machinist 😀, I asked for his opinion again on the spare head after he deemed it garbage. He liked the idea of plugs 1/2 x 1 20tpi in head and was impressed I salvaged it. So he milled that head also. My search for bolts that size sold by a local Napa dealer had only grade 8 . I may have a hard time drilling/ tapping and installing studs for manifold. I need to do a test bolt first.
Some others items were to clean up rocker bolt holes, recut valve seats, clean lifters , pushrods , valves and springs. After some light lapping I’m ready to assemble head.
I’ll be checking the crank for correct bearings but it looks like I’ll just need standard. I will also need a ring set for 77 pistons.
On another front my vette engine head came back also and I installed it, getting thru the torquing sequence three times to bring it up to 65 ft lbs slowly was enough for one day. Still need to adjust valves and hook up lower header to pipes.
One day at a time!
Dakazman
-
U-joints installed awaiting flingers / seals , then pressing in bearings. As Dave Bean manual states.., patience. I used NAPA P341’s. I will replace the longer grease fittings for shorter ones, I just think they come to close to the housings. Monday I’ll receive my s/s water lines 😀 from R&D 😀.
Reinstalled my corvette head and torqued the rocker studs that were the reason for the bent pushrod.
Also installed.060 pushrods and polylocs. Ran out of time as two water pump studs holding the fan on were missing, so I’ll be off to pick up some tomorrow.
Dakazman
-
You certainly have been busy!
-
It’s been raining a lot so I got a time off from painting the exterior of the house. The wife picked out some paint for my youngest daughters room that now is an independent woman living on her own. Painted it and even cleaned the windows 😀
We now have 5 empty bedrooms.
Dakazman
-
FIVE empty bedrooms!! However busy you are now, probably can't compare to how busy you must have been!
-
Dave, I can’t show my wife your posts as you always squeezing in painting around the house between automotive work. I only paint when I’m in the mood to do so. Don’t ask when that is as only I know it.
-
Glen, That’s Okay. I also vacuum and babysit. Lol.
While waiting for more parts to arrive I assembled the rear drum brakes. Easy peasy! 😀
I can now comment on them. I found all my parts in the bins, ex ice cream containers, that were marked. Having all the parts I read the manual and said why wait. The first item was the adjustment screw assembly movement was nonexistent . Lubed it up and slowly worked everything loose . Cleaned and reassembled so now I can turn it with my fingers . I seriously recommend cleaning them.
Installing the shoes and springs took 2 minutes to have mounted. Layout the shoes in proper orientation, flip over , attach springs top &bottom to both sides . Lift and place the shoe with the emergency bracket in place while keeping spring tension on. Pull the lower on side shoe Into place.
Keep tension on and pull lower after side in place , the the top. Put the mounting pins, springs and clip in place .
I did find that the backing plates are marked on the inboard top side as to right and left side.
Dakazman
-
It never fails!
Another job to tackle, clutch job after 12 years. It’s amazing how big these parts are compared to the Europa. I know 400 hp compared to 86. Years ago I would have it out after working all night and in so to go back to work that night . It’s nice to be be retired.
-
You do have a thing about plastic cars, don't you D'man!
-
Good to know I’m not the only one bouncing around all my cars getting various projects done :beerchug:
-
Pulling engine tomorrow.😭
My nbr 4 cylinder fills up with water. Crack in liner. When the rocker stud loosed , bent pushrod pushed out the valve seat into piston. The same machinist built the Camino engine also. Now I’m thinking of pulling the covers and checking them also.
Dakazman
-
Ah Dave man that sucks, if your misery wants some company I have had to delay my Twin Cam Engine rebuild because my wife's 2011 Escalade no longer has any oil pressure and there were lots of shiny bits in the oil filter, just when I thought I was out of the woods getting rid of her Yukon with 430,000 kms. :'( I feel your pain... But I have the day job still.
Ross
-
I guess I'll add my story here. My wife's '06 MB C230 recently developed terminal sprocket cancer. The engine uses a sintered sprocket for the balance shaft. On a string of them, the heat treatment was poor. (two errors here in my mind: using a 90° V6 requires a balance shaft, they should have used a 60° V and if they were going to use a 90° V, they should have used real steel instead of sintered steel for the sprocket) MB offered to help reduce the cost of a $10,000 (MB rate) repair by a few thousand dollars IF you were a regular customer of their shop. We felt lucky to sell it to a wholesaler.
-
I all most don’t know what to say.
Rosco, that’s going to tie you up for a couple of months. Time is the real enemy. We’re mechanics because things break, we have the talent to make things right, which most people can’t do.
BDA, wow. Glad that you did get out! I was wondering why I saw a few cheap mb c230 . We all most purchased one for my daughter but on her test ride something started making a weird noise. She got a Honda Civic sport 4door.
I’m sure we will all still run into bad purchases that were no fault of ours. All the electronics items break at the worst possible time . I HATE throwing away items, I consider myself not a part of that throw away society. Sorry ranting again! It all comes down to a prayer I have copyright to,
For the joy after the sorrow
For the laughter after the tears
For the health, food, and shelter through the years
We thank thee oh lord.
Dakazman
-
It's not all of the V6 MB engines but just a subset of them. I think they got things squared away for the 2007 year but I'd still be wary. An MB dealer should be able to tell you if that car has the issue - and I think they will if you ask - but it's really soured me on the vaunted German car industry. It seems like the Japanese and Koreans make the best cars now.
Love the prayer!
-
Thanks BDA,
It more of a diner toast with family.
Dakazman
-
Busy weekend here , first lawn maintenance and tree trimming before hurricane season. Yes am late.
Yes it’s 99 degrees and 74% humidity.🥵
Corvette engine out ready for tare down and delivery to a new machinist. So after that time to get some stainless cooling tubes in along with the brake cable and whatever else goes in the tunnel.
Dakazman
-
Took the day off, way to hot. Bonus day babysitting both granddaughters😀
Dakazman
-
Got them in , the coolant lines were fun.
Dakazman
-
Delivered my Chevy block to the machinist for a sleeve needed in another cylinder , 7, caused by the oil scraper lower ring wedged under the piston. The last machinist clearly is as in a rush.
On the wedge engine, Fitted the crankshaft with the main bearings. The plastigage read .038mm.
I’ll take that information back to the machine shop to see what he thinks. I also reinstalled all the old valves, after cutting the seats and lapping the valves. If the engine shop gives me a thumbs up on the crank dimensions I’ll be installing the seal and gaskets on the rear main. I noticed hylomar has two types , an af , advanced formula, or a blue formula. Any advice?
Dakazman
-
I used to use the blue on my Hewland end cover. It doesn't harden and seemed to work pretty well but that's a part you take off a lot. Michel at Alpine America got me on "Right Stuff" which is really good for permanent joints. Of course, everyone has their own favorites.
-
0.038 is 1.5 thou in old money. Just within specs on the tight side. Pressurize the oil system before the first start. Break it in carefully!
I always fit new exhuast valves. I have seen too many exhaust valve heads hammered through pistons. It's cheap insurance.
-
Thanks BDA and JB,
—-Happy dance—-
I still need to get the Thrust bearings shim dimensions, finally open he set of gaskets from Steve V.
The manual has me installing the doors ear seals and cam next and I think I passed up the oil pump section. It should go faster now that I’ve disassembled the vette motor and have it’s internals all over my garages rapidly depleting storage spots. The El Camino is loaded with doors , engine cover and the rear bolt. I’ve been jockeying cars around so much my wife is saying it’s time to sell them. I just say correct starting with her van she can’t seem to part with. Lol. I just say I need another garage.
Dave
-
JB , it seems a shame to discard practically new valves. This is the second set I have cleaned up but if you really think I should replace them I will.
The second item is your thoughts on balancing the pistons, rods , and rings since it is not a chemise kit but an piston from another engine going in different liners. That’s were I’m headed. I read there’s matched sets and that’s what I perceive they mean?
Dakazman
Ps that’s the bad piston ring from the vette that caused the gouging in the liner.
-
If the exhaust valves are literally "practically new" then you can reuse them. Say, 20K miles or less and they have a good margin left after grinding their faces. If they just look "practically new" or, you don't know their history, replace the exhaust valves.
Liners and pistons are matched sets, not by weight, by diameter. The clearances are in the manual. Use extra long feeler gauges to check the clearance between the liner and piston skirt 90° from the piston pin axis. Check them all and match the tightest bores with the "smallest" pistons and so on to maintain the correct clearance.
Balancing is always a good idea. Research on how to do it correctly. Rods are balanced by total weight and the weights of the respective big and little ends. Don't just grind/cut anywhere to remove weight.
After you have equalized all your components weights, then bring them, and the crankshaft, front pulley (if there is one), flywheel and clutch to a machine shop for dynamic balancing.
-
Thanks again JB.
The installed set will come out. I cannot vouch for there mileage.
The set I have in the rack were in the donor engine I bought from Tom in LA. The engine was overhauled but it broke Two pistons. That is the engine I’m putting together on recommendation from the engine shop. Upon assembly prep I found the reason for its demise. The head bolt holes were not cleaned out , so proper torque was not applied to the head, Holding the liners.
I had a conversation with the machinist about the balancing however he cautioned me about the removal of a he wrist pins and bowing the pistons. He will not remove them by will balance them when I get them out. They need to come out to balance so I read the manual and practiced on the two blown pistons. They came out perfectly and didn’t bow or mushroom.
I have 5 good pistons, 4 liners, 8 rods and pins. 6 pistons still on the rods. That’s were i’am at.
I’m glad I’m going through this process. It’s a first, that’s why I’m doing baby steps.
Dakazman
-
Stifling Hot all week. My seat tracks came back from getting powder coated. I hope they can take the moisture better than paint.
-
Paint? I thought they were raw steel when they were installed the first time!
-
Dave, love the work your doing on your car but any part that has metal to metal contact should be electroplated, not painted. Just sayin.....
Then again, it’s your car and you should just party on :pirate:
-
I agree with you Glen, electroplating is better. This and the rim was a FREEBIE 😀. I did replace some digitizers in their IPhones in return. Too bad my friend doesn’t have a larger over. Lol.
I test out some dry slide and grease and check the wear.
Dave
-
Slowly progressing on my heads. This original head framed garbage by the machinist now may have some life left in it. I plugged the two stud holes with bolts torqued with some hi temp locktite. Then today I mounted the manifold and centered where to drill the new stud holes.
For the wedge experts out there is why aren’t the top two center manifold not drilled out to mount to the two top enter head-stud holes?
I got around to call Dave Bean , however their still on a long Independence Day vacation, to order some exhaust valves and keepers.
Dakazman
-
Progress Dave, progress.
-
A little more progress today between cutting lawns for my daughters.
Finished upon two rocker arm assemblies. All parts freely move but will go back in a stowage bag until I work out the heads and engine. The only question I have is about an actual tool for holding the pushrod adjustment screw?
The gasket set and old intake provided me the answer about drilling out thru the manifold that I picked up recently, that has no holes.
All valves in by I missed one stud hole repair. Now to polish!!!
You can see I’m dragging my feet a little about extracting the piston pins out of the pistons for there balancing. After examining the two other donor pistons That have the rods still on them have cracks in the skirt. So I only have 4 good pistons and I have them soaking in wd40 and whatever other penetrant I have. I see Dave Bean does have a complete set of p&L and waiting for them to get back from lunch for a price check. I also have to he name of the shop in France and there site is now easily read in English .
Another find was two different timing chain covers.
Dakazman
-
While I’m waiting for my flingers to get shipped from the uk to Dave Bean and a pair of new locking tabs, I thought about the one thing a day to do. I grabbed the speedo cable for some reason. Maybe to finish up the tunnel items. Then some engine parts.
While on the phone I found out D/B does not have any liners available.😮. Just 1mm oversized with pins and rods , to be installed in your liners all for $890.00. So on my set of pistons on the rods I will take a step back and decided to order a kitchen scale. Once I see the weight difference I will make another decision.
The 843 block is assembled with a good set of pistons and liners. After talking with Steve Veritas it ay be the route I go. It is also a great candidate for a forward pulley a/c compressor.
Dakazman
-
Pretty polished pieces, D'man!
Good luck with your motor rebuild!
-
While cleaning up the valve train I noticed we can make a nice tool for adjustments to to lifter clearance. Get a 1/4 Rod, cut a 5/32 slot in it and cover it with a 5/16 tube. Put a ‘t’ handle on it and your good to go. See pic 1-3.
I dug out the distributor today and things were moving on beautifully then 1c-clip broke. I continued the reassembly and launched two other c-clips . There must be an easier way to remove the center shaft completely to assemble the vacuum advance counterbalance clips. I probably won’t use this distributor anyway but I still want to rebuild it. Any help would be appreciated.
Dakazman
-
I have more C clips floating around my garage than I care to admit. My solution.....I bought a box of different sizes just in case. And guess what, I rarely loose one any more. Go figure.....
Nice work as always Dave!
-
I decided to go with the cross flow engine. The bottom end held water and Has no major concerns other than 2 cylinder head bolt were stripped out in the block. A measurement showed me there was 1” of threads still in the hole so they will get studs instead. I removed the cam and placed a 821 cam in. , the valves look great and measure 39 and 35. I have an intake that will get it up and running with little expense. A set a headers and checking to see if it fits in the frame with a triple pulley balancer.
Any other help would be appreciated. Thanks goes out to JB, Galvin and runningwild and
Califkid66.
Dakazman
-
It reads as though you are going to use an 821 cam with a crossflow head. If that's so, it won't work. The crossflows have a different valve order than the wedge engines.
Those are not high compression pistons, FYI.
-
G’day D’man,
A few observations:
Replacing head bolts with studs will make it difficult to install (and remove) the head.
I’d suggest looking to longer bolts or a thread repair solution.
If going with longer bolts, be sure there’s some extra room at the bottom of the hole. You don’t want the bolt to bottom out in the hole while you’re torquing it down.
Also, there appears to be a hollow locating dowel near the water pump end but none on the middle bolt hole as is usual.
Measure the head thickness to be sure if it’s serviceable, but it looks OK.
As JB points out, the 821 cam (or any wedge head based cam) won’t work in a cross-flow.
Here in Oz, we got the same version of the R17TS as they did in Europe rated variously at 120 or 125HP - brochure HP. This was the 844 engine of 1605cc & 10.25 compression using EFI.
Valve sizes in those are 42.1 inlet and 35.35 exhaust using different valve springs, con-rods etc.
Cam timing was 40/72/72/40.
I only mention this because it’s a tried and true base configuration for reasonable power without worrying about exotic fuels etc.
I can’t see the piston crowns properly, but do they have a slight dome?
What is the bore diameter?
What car did this engine come from originally?
There’s obviously some coolant circulation differences.
I don’t know for sure but cross-flow heads using a water pump located at the timing chain end also have some slightly different coolant passages as well. It’s possible the intended coolant flow is reversed . . or perhaps straight through from one end of the head to the other? . . dunno.
It’s not insurmountable, but that needs to be figured out.
Probably an electric water pump could sort it.
-
Thanks so much guys,
Dang it, on the cam ! I guess I’ll call Alpine, runningwild said he brought back two blanks . I thought I could use the cam and have it recut. Guess not now.
I am certainly learning a lot . Galvin gave me and califkid homework Lol. I also will read both of your post again several times . The cleaned the engine today a will pull off some caps and check the bearings . Are the tappets two pieces like the twin cams? If so how do the shims come off?
Galvin, Pegasus racing has the studs I was talking about and are made to be taken out , and they or just 1, I will check the stats again on a insert and the depth.
Sorry for jumping around. I’ll keep everyone posted.
On the wedge, I got a kitchen scale today and weighed the total piston-connecting rods . I know it’s not the right way but just curious. They weighed in 141/151/150/138 grams . So they will need to be taken apart.
-
The tappets are the same one piece items as in the wedge head - perhaps exactly the same?
Do you have the original tappets from the cross-flow?
It’s best practice to have tappets go back into their original places.
Tappets don’t seem to suffer much wear but if swapping tappets in from a foreigner, be sure to check dimensions - it’s a mandatory precaution. Note there were also oversize tappets available.
The tappets will need to be refaced to go with the new cam as a matter of course.
-
Yes, same (one piece) tappets for the wedge and crossflow. Please have them reground properly. They are slightly dished. It matches the slight taper ground into the cam and is there to rotate the tappet for long life.
Thread repair inserts work very well on an alloy block, highly recommended over fitting studs.
-
Galvin,
Yes I do and I have them all in order as well as all the head bolts in order. The Engine came from California guy. I will take better pics of it’s unidentifiable markings. The piston size is 79mm.
JB and Galvin,
I did notice the dish on the tappets on the wedge engines. I will unpack them today.
One last question and my thoughts were to put the wedge head on with the 821 cam. Would hat work?
Dakazman
-
One last question and my thoughts were to put the wedge head on with the 821 cam. Would hat work?
Doubtful.
The pistons shown in your pics are for a cross-flow engine, hence the valve reliefs on both sides.
The wedge head has different valve angles & combustion chamber shape. I'd expect the pistons would make contact with the wedge head itself and probably the valves as well.
Cheers,
Gavin
-
Can't say for sure but I would agree with Gavin. Wedge and crossflow engines use many of the same parts but I would use matching, and higher compression, pistons myself.
-
Okay, I asked the question, that’s what is forum is about. It proves we have the talent here . It may not be the answer Or any but I feel it’s in my best interest. Thanks ya’all’. 😀
I will put in the hemi after I acquire a cam. Engine can go in with every expectation of running. The wife will be happy. I can still search for a chemise from France.
I have a lot of answers and pictures I’ll post later . It was a productive day.😀
-
Cam info, RG6 grind specs 1-picture
Engine ID - two pictures
Head thickness- 2 pictures ( what is minimum?)
Bolt and tappet order- two pics
I may just need a 9 1/2”
Intake and exhaust - w pics
Bearings and tappet condition - 2pics
Valve train before and after. - 3 pics
Hemi vs wedge piston
Good progress. Thanks all!
-
Always hard to judge from posted photos but a couple of the lifters/followers look pooched.
-
JB,
would this be the correct cam mp0371 for the crossflow? see attached pic.
And mp0314 chemise for the wedge , 821-30 fed.? I have the 77 bore 84 stroke.
Thanks in advance
Dakazman
-
The 843 is measuring out to a 78.8/84 mm bore /stroke. Mecaparts show an 77.8/84 and a 78 and 79/84 . All at approximately 1600 cc.
I did some googling of my block numbers and found it to be inconclusive as to model. I read comments from an Alpine to a Fuego... the cam search begins with a call to cat cams and Alpine both may have blanks. I just need one.😀
Dakazman
-
G’day D’man,
I believe you said previously that the bores were 79mm which means it’s capacity, assuming the stock 84mm stroke, is 1647cc.
On the assumption that it’s a NA 843 engine, I’d suggest the liner spigot bore in the block is 84mm and likely uses O-rings for the liner seal.
Many items on the Mecaparts site are suitable for blocks that use a 82.5mm spigot bore and paper seals. The Alpine A110 VA etc. (ignoring the 1300cc versions) and Renault 12 Gordini are all variants of the “807 family” of cross-flow engines using the 82.5mm spigot bore.
For example:
78mm bore x 84mm stroke calculates to 1605cc
77.8mm bore x 84mm stroke calculates to 1596cc
77mm bore x 84mm stroke calculates to 1565cc - MP0314
That said, they do have some A110 SX 1647cc pistons sets further down which look to offer a stratospheric compression ratio. - MP0372
BTW, I couldn’t find the MP0361 cam in your pic?
Did you mean MP0371 ?
-
G’day Galvin, THANKS Again!
Yes to the 371. I should have snapped a pic of it .
I rounded up since I don’t put much confidence $19.00 digital caliper. Until I went to the web site and and saw that they are very accurate to find parts ordering. This is a first time down this road for me.
Funny thing is now I have more time to build it , the hemi for speed. 😀👍👍
I “grew a pair”, and removed the piston and rod assemblies for my 821-30. I weighed each part 12 grams off , separately but like you guys said Bring it to the machinist ... he just didn’t want to disassemble it crack or bow the pistons. Nor does he assemble anything. He just does sub assemblies. He calls himself an engine shop. Now he will do the balancing.
I still will continue building both but it seems the original is gonna get done sooner. Which is fine with me . I’ll pull it out as soon as the hemi is done.
Dakazman
-
Yep, digital callipers are fine for lots of things but you’ll need a couple of micrometers for assembling this engine.
OK, your guy is a machinist only; that’s fine and not unusual.
Just need to understand his perspective. He doesn’t want to take responsibility for the build with all the decisions & ramifications which flow from that. Therefore, he doesn’t want to get tangled up in potentially damaging your pistons during disassembly. That’s fine.
The 821 piston looks somewhat pitted.
Are the 843 pistons flat on top or are they slightly domed? . . . I suspect they’re flat.
I may have missed an earlier post but have you indicated a budget?
How fast do you want to go?
As you’ve already found, there are a number of ways to skin this cat.
-
Yes the 843 pistons are flat . And I do have a few size micrometers but not that size. If I were working I had access to all types of devices. I do miss that.
Yes they do look a little pitted, hmmmm, you think I can take out the 843 and bore out the 821 to accommodate them?
Then order higher compression for the 843 along with the cam of course.
I keep myself on a budget unless it is holding me up , there is always something else I can do with 8 vehicles. I get reminded that it’s a hobby not a job.
Dave
-
Hi Dave,
Do you mean bore out the 821 block to accept the existing 843 liners?
I’m unclear where you’re going with this?
First thing to do is assess the current status.
Re the 843:
The crank appears to be serviceable.
Unknown wear on the pistons/liners, valves etc. & many other items.
Unknown coolant circulation.
Missing camshaft.
N.B. - Lots of caveats here because diagnosing things over the internet via strangers looking at pics needs to be taken into account also.
Suggest taking the important parts to your machinist and have him measure stuff & do an assessment. They usually don’t charge much for this and it’s vital.
Skinning the cheapest cat:
Assuming everything measures OK, reassemble pistons/liner, new bearings etc. Refurbish/renew whatever is needed, install a mild cam, Weber/Dellorto 40’s, headers and go. I’d expect this to be surprisingly decent.
Skinning the cat differently:
Using the 821 block, build a 17TS spec. engine as I mentioned earlier.
Install the larger valves, Weber/Dellorto 40’s & headers, same as before.
Skinning a bigger cat:
The 843 uses the 84mm spigot so there’s little available off the shelf in terms of just dropping in a set of pistons/liners as is usual. However, why not take advantage of that?
Have some custom 80mm pistons x 10.25 compression made and bore out the 843 liners to suit. That should provide about 1689cc’s.
Install a 17TS cam & larger valves, Weber/Dellorto 45’s & headers etc.
All these “cats” would be entirely streetable. This last option is probably the best bang for buck and perhaps cheaper than building a 17TS.
Thoughts JB?
-
G’Day Galvin,
The 843 just went on standby. I will pursue the ultimate big cat for that engine . Like califkid I need to buy some engine manuals. Second , buy the correct cam and gasket set.
I just got back from the machinist , he said not to worry about the pitting or for that matter balancing it after I told him what the difference was. His selection of verbs muttered something like, just put it together. So I went home and put all the pistons back together. So that will be cat 1 and it could be back together in two weeks . I say that only because I have to wait for Steve to send me the alignment tools. I have all the parts to get it done.
The other 821 will be your different cat , JB mentioned I should change out the exhaust anyway.
However it will be after the 843.
Dave :lotus:
-
I know nothing about these engines so I’m just reading with interest.
-
Thanks to Galvin and JB runningwild and others who have these eye catching, jaw dropping engines right next to the look of the twin cams and the Ford Focus black tops. I have to get pass these Renault numbers.
I googled a 17ts and found a manual that shows the cam page perfectly with other if numbers in the ledgend. This would pick up a nice ac compressor.
Dakazman
-
Playing around with the liners today and getting the orientation correct and double checking the manual to make sure I get it right. I have a question about the hylomar sealant application location.
Is it applied while setting the liners in the block, in the area corresponding to the location I marked on the liner? Or is it smeared around the base after liner installed? Disregard that red line it’s the base of stand.
Another question, is there a minimum thickness on the flywheel, I look d everywhere even on the diameter of it. That’s where I found the brake rotor minimum.
Another setback is someone charged up my credit card and now I have to wait 4-day wait for my new card and purchase stuff. Just that I don’t want to us my wife’s card. All my prepay junk needs to be changed also 🤬
Dakazman
-
Dave, my Europa manual says that you should not grind the flywheel only replace it. Check with others as this may only apply to the1.5 L engine.
Sandy
-
You would use sealer where the o-ring seats against the cylinder and block. Sealer applied after assembly would do nothing, and would be difficult to do.
Flywheels can be resurfaced but I seem to recall it is a stepped surface. Make sure the machine shop realizes that. Only resurface flywheels that are scored. Rust can be easily cleaned up with sandpaper.
-
Thanks JB,
I’m doing the wedge motor with the paper seals so it goes on both sides of the paper?
Also should I shoot for the higher or lower spec of .005-.0075 . What is more successful?
Dakazman
-
Make sure the sleeves are shimmed correctly before applying sealer. Just needs to be in the range. Some people shim a little higher but I would stick within the recommended specs. Remember to check protrusion at several points. Swap sleeves and bores so the "long" sleeves go into the "low" bores.
-
Aughhhh I get it . That’s why I’m dry running the entire process over an over.
Thanks again!
Dave
-
While cleaning up the valve train I noticed we can make a nice tool for adjustments to to lifter clearance. Get a 1/4 Rod, cut a 5/32 slot in it and cover it with a 5/16 tube. Put a ‘t’ handle on it and your good to go.
Yes, I made one too.
Of course, as soon as that was finished, I found out there’s a commercial one. ::)
-
The works on the wedge engines but the crossflow needs to be longer. There are also two different lock nut sizes. I have two of the factory tools: a short one with the right socket size and a long one with the wrong size.
-
Galvin, I figured there would be a special tool. I m waiting for my new credit card to get here so I can start buying stuff . I asked Steve Verdi’s to send me the alignment tools for both type engines . Then looking for a good 17ts workshop manual. If the hemi head is within limits I could start with buying all new valves , etc.
JB
I’ll check the adjustments on the hemi and they are all the same when I broke them loose off the rail.
What is a right and wrong size?
I have two of the factory tools: a short one with the right socket size and a long one with the wrong size.
Cleaned the liner bases today and found out why they were all within specs ., they still had the paper liners on them. Lol.
Another shocking find is that these liner exterior are brass. No wonder I thought they were in good shape being that they were in a water cavity.
Dakazman
-
It wasn’t as easy as I thought but I made it with scrap bits I had laying around.
I made it longer than I planned but it should work.
The gearbox wrench is also coming along.
Dakazman
-
The liners are cast iron. Perhaps you’ve been cleaning them with a brass wire brush?
You can see where the corrosion has crept in around the edges of the liner.
As long as that’s all there is, I expect some Hylomar (or whatever) would work.
Be sure to check for corrosion where the liner seats on the block - very important.
-
Yes I just changed out the brush to a brass wheel. This was the first time using it and I also looked like a porcupine. It is a very fine bristle. Well that explains that. I’ll see what it does to some different bolts.
Thanks as always
Dakazman
-
Just getting that one thing a day done and so I installed the flywheel assembly. The 821-30 differs from the 843 in that it doesn’t have the index pin hole , even the crankshaft has one less hole. Install the ring set on the 1565cc 77 mm bore pistons.
Besides having tons on interruptions!!! I loaned someone out my piston ring compressor so that’s another item to my, buy-list.🥴
Hopefully I will have my credit card back up by Monday. 🤬
Dakazman
-
Galvin,
Getting back to that big cat, removed all the valves from the head and inspect it. As JB said it looks pooched. I will definitely order a complete set of both intake and exhaust sets to rival that gordini you lust for. 42 on exhaust , ? Intake valve?
Some milling is in the cards also.
The first picture shows a spring seat washer on nbr 3 exhaust that got pretty chewed up but yet the spring is not broken. The seat looks to be shot also .
My other question is what I believe is an oil passage for the dizzy (distributor) on the milling job you showed us is completely gone , is that a concern?
Dakazman
Ps, oil on spark plug thread! Loose or leaking shaft?
-
Finished up a gearbox wrench. Thanks for the plans. I’ll have to start reading the manual and talk with R&D to see what is available for the 336.
Dakazman
-
G’day D’man,
Valve sizes on the R17TS:
Inlet: 42.1mm
Exhaust: 35.35mm
No idea about the mangled spring seat washer but presumably that didn’t happen in service?
Before you start contemplating milling the head, I’d suggest you plan out your expectations.
I’m not sufficiently familiar with the 843 as used in the US but wasn’t it originally from a Fuego Turbo? I ask because if that’s the case, I’d suspect the stock compression to be somewhat low. Consequently, you’d end up skimming too much material from the head to get it up to something reasonable for a non-turbo.
As a first step it’s probably best to use JB’s method and discover the existing compression ratio.
It may well be that higher compression pistons and leaving the head alone is the way to go.
Yes, that groove looks to be an oil splash for the dizzy.
I’ve never seen discussions of problems arising from it’s disappearance, but it’d likely be a trivial job to re-cut a groove in a skimmed head.
As an aside, that 807-G4 engine is an 1800cc twin cam, 16valve, so it’s in a rather different league.
-
Slow day and no parts , except for my daughters tiberon that needs cv joints after 240,000 miles.
The long side came in ,left, but waiting for both.
No flingers for the rear axles...😡
No liner for the vette 😡
No credit card !🤬 which will s holding up my head tooling.
Tomorrow babysitting my granddaughter,😀 always a good time!
Dakazman
-
You have to take the good with the bad... Enjoy the granddaughter!
-
Plus I stay cool And usually nap afterwards.
Dave
-
Just remember it’s a hobby. Losing a day or two or three isn’t the end of the world. Enjoy the kids and naps 8)
-
Finalized my purchase of tooling for the head alignment so by Wednesday or Thursday I should have them in hand. Polishing up the engine a bit . I don’t know how far I’ll take it...lol.
Doing my cv joints on the Hyundai tiberon tomorrow for my daughter. 😀 Dads garage always Open.
Dakazman
-
Good job on the polishing there, D'man.
And luckily you've taken this photo now because it'll be difficult to zoom out sufficiently when the engine is installed. :))
-
G’day Galvin,... I just love that expression.
Crappie day here , 1 cv joint was not the correct part in a the box, Tuesday I’ll know for sure but it is not like the original. See pic. A clear 1/4 longer so it never meets the seal. So I reinstalled the old one. Love doing jobs thrice.
LOL, Thank you. My firewall installs from the cabin area, I may not even use that cover! The 843 cover with the front crankshaft pulley is what Ian thinking about installing since I saw Prfreens lotus with his A/C compressor running off in from the factory. I will be mounting the engine in the frame this week to check all the clearances.
Dakazman
-
It looks like adding the front crankshaft pulley from the 843 engine is out for two reasons. The 843 crankshaft is longer to accept the balancer/ pulley assembly. With that said if you could find a double or single pulley it would only sit on about a 1/2 of shaft of the 821 wedge. After eyeing up the block in the frame there is very little room with the water line and shifting assembly. Looks like it’s JBs mod for me if A/C is going in.
Dakazman
-
Dave - how do you plan to keep all that polished aluminum shiny?
-
Gideon, After sanding and then polishing it last a good 5 years. My motorcycle engine is a 1995. Polished twice. My vans wheels were clearcoat from the factory, but cracked off in only 10 years.
Afterward I use mothers mag polish or from Lowe’s , Starbritte stainless steel aluminum polish.
Pictures below just show the piece just sanded , no polish yet or brown, white , red rouge .
This is also florida, no salted roads here . Lol.
Have you seen aluminum truck tool boxes up north? They keep rather well. I have a friend who races drag boats and his whole outdrive is polished.
If your asking about that cover, my firewall removes from the inside of the car in three sections. Left center right.
Dakazman
-
Nice work Dave!
-
Very pretty, D'man!
-
It's going to be dazzling. Better pack shades, just in case 8)
-
Here’s the vision, lol. See pic not mine!!!
However I did buy aluminum ceramic paint for engine and gearbox. I just keep thinking what it would look like shaved down and polished. It may crack the block and gearbox.
As BDA Keeps telling me stay focused. This wedge engine will be painted along with the gearbox.
The tooling will be in my possession by Friday to assembly it and hopefully install in frame next week.
Dakazman
-
D'man, I see I no longer need to tell you to focus! :)
-
Lol
:beerchug:
Later of course!
Dakazman
-
Now I understand the attraction to polished metal.....
-
Aughhh... but a little faster.
-
Wow what a week, CV joints finished on my daughters car and her other car needs tires. 😧
My head alignment tools came in along with a workshop manual for r 15/17’s some info on an 843
But the main text is as on 807/810 engines. Torque on intakes differ from 10- 25 ft/lbs . I loved the chapter r section, tooling requirements.
I need to buy one more item , a crankshaft gear puller, why I missed this item I’ll never know...
So I fabricated a s/s bracket for the choke and something else...heater I think.
Dakazman
-
That looks like a heater knob for a TC. Judging from the pictures in the S2 owner's manual, the design changed at some point - maybe with the introduction of the TC or maybe before. I'm not sure. I assume you're going to use it regardless. If you don't have a choke cable, I think I found a source for one that matches here (https://www.angloparts.com/pdf_catalogues/Tools_accessories_catalogue.pdf Check out page 48 of the catalog. They also sell a knob set that I guess includes all the knobs of that style. Check out page 76 of the catalog).
-
Thanks BDA, I added that link to my favorites . The PO gave my some parts and I think I saw two other cable assemblies in my boxes of parts. Still so much to do, but space is an a premium. I also broke down and purchased a 750 rockchester carb for the ELKY. That will finally put it back on the road.
I was just going to leave the timing gear on the crankshaft but decided to follow the manual to a tee.
Tomorrow going to place the liners and pistons and lock down followed by a leak check not in the manual but skippy and JB have talked about.
Dakazman
-
Finished drilling up the holes and polished the bracket. I’ll keep it as is until I find the other cables I saw somewhere. This should last awhile, before and after.
Dakazman
-
That's really pretty D'man! It deserves a matching choke cable!
-
BDA, No choke cable assembly but I did find what I think is the washer cable. See pic.
While installing the liners I noticed a small correction to the manual for current times. The liner shins now come in three sizes not two as stated in the 821-30 fed manual. Luckily I had a 810/ 807 manual that showed the thicknesses. See pics. I know others have stated the three shim sizes in the gasket set, luckily Steve Veris includes them in his build. Hit the 006.7 mark on all cylinder liners bolts sides.
I will hopefully be installing the pistons and applying the halomar compound. I probably would have assembled this faster but I just want to get it right.
I also made a wish list of parts on the sjsportcars , however shipping to the USA kills that thought.
Dakazman
-
Nice fabrication work and polishing! I haven’t mastered the fine art of polishing metal. Too bad you don’t live closer I would be hanging out in your garage helping and “learning”.
Regarding old control knobs, I have been successful in repairing cable knobs that need new cables by cutting off the cable at the end of the metal that holds the knob on, filing it flat and drilling a hole for the new cable. Then silver solder the new cable in. Works like a charm.
-
Certified, I just finished reading your thread and posted pictures.
I attempted installing my pistons in the liners however after two hours I still can’t get one installed.
What I thought was going to be sliding them in gently the second ring would get stuck. The ring compressor I’m using is to large for these small pistons . Tomorrow is another day and I’ll run out a get a smaller diameter size.
Dakazman
-
I failed at a second attempt to install the pistons into the sleeves . I ordered a tapered ring compressor pliers set for the third attempt on Thursday.
So with little motivation I pulled out the fuel tank with h it’s 25 years of dust on it and started scraping the zbar off it. With my new scale laying there I couldn’t resist, 23 oz off and still didn’t get it all. The 3m rubber bristle pad was excellent for this job and removed the tarish remaining particles clear down to clean bare metal.
Weighing in at 10lbs 5oz or 4687 grams. I don’t know what the aluminum tanks weigh but it can’t be that much. I’ll also take some measurements for future projects.
Now what color to paint it?
Dakazman
-
Nice work as usual Dave. I left my tanks natural aluminum. Didn’t paint.
-
Certified, I think his tanks are steel in which case I'd propose you paint it either pink or lime green! ;D
-
Certified, I think his tanks are steel in which case I'd propose you paint it either pink or lime green!
Yes my one tank is steel.
Okay here’s some choices... aluminum or silver !
Dakazman
-
You're awfully picky, D'man! :)
-
Lol , BDA
I was on the angelo parts for hours today since it is 95 f and he feels like temp was 115 f. Thanks for that site. The other night I was on sjsportcars and racked up a shopping cart of 1300.00 which would complete the car. I also put in an order with r&d for the glovebox and some other parts to continue finishing up some things.
I briefly thought about red for tank . Lol Briefly !
Dakazman
-
My car's on the road. I've been on a few long trips in it including twice to Asheville (4 1/2 hours) and once to Birmingham (> 8 hours). I drive it almost any time Mrs. BDA doesn't come with me (she doesn't like riding in it for more than a mile). I will tell you that $1,300 wouldn't come close to "finishing" my car. It's never going to be finished. There is always something I'd want to do to it.
Red gas tank... Not as good a color as pink or lime green but it could have possibilities. :)
-
That’s the bare minimum to get it on the road, less engine . I think the prices were EURO but the shipping cost was more than the part, so I can fly there and pick it up cheaper. I’ll make the list again from R&D, but their website is laid out neatly with pictures of items in stock. Then I can get started with the cross flow engine.
If all goes well I should have I done by November when I’ll register it . Cars in Florida get registered on your birth month , so if you register a car before that ie now, you pay the entire amount again in November.
I really don’t drive much anymore 100 miles a day to 10 a week now .
Dakazman
-
I would paint them silver. I had thought about painting my tanks black but then thought the contrast of color in the engine bay might look nice. I’m glad I left mine the natural aluminum color.
-
After installing the piston into the liner the piston seems way to tight. Movement up and down.
Without the rings they moved very freely. End gap was good. Should I continue and rotate after liner locked down?
Dakazman
-
Normal for significantly more force to be required with the rings on. Especially when rings are fresh in newly honed bores. That said, the rings are the right ones? They have sufficient clearance in the ring groove?
-
Yes J.B. , all gaps good. Maybe I’m checking it wrong but I placed the top ring in the liner and measured the gap. According to the chart given in the instructions I as right in the mid range of normal/max. The rings were supplied by R&D.
Liners are newly honed. I’ve done a few motorcycle heads but this is tight. I even removed the piston and checked the surface for unusual wear marks ,but just the normal marks of tight rings.
With it on my workbench it moves with my weight. This also was the same piston that came out of this liner ,nbr 4. This is also the same result I’m getting from nbr 1 cup.
On the bright side the ring compressor works great , plier type.
Thanks JB
Dakazman
-
Good about the ring end gap. What about the depth of the rings and the ring groove depth?
-
With ring in groove gap from top of groove to ring within tolerance. Not in garage right now but both positions 1&2 were good.
I thought I mushroomed the pistons when I pressed in the rods pins but there wasn’t much of any dimensional changes.
I also pulled up some dimensions to Check from pdf below. ( pistons not as set ) I don’t know previous history of the original motor and a donor engine that I used the liners and piston combo.
Dakazman
-
Talked with the machinist today and all is ‘normal ‘, and I was given the nod to continue. I have a tight engine. I now have all the pistons installed in the liners . Great day.
While waiting I was sanding down the rear hubs to 1000. Yes polishing again! I may not need the flangers!
I Order my cam ( (jackshaft) from Renault16 today for the crossflow . Waiting on valves and seat order because I cannot confirm a seat for the size wanted.
Dakazman
-
I have a new respect for machinist who put things together correctly. I found some time to install the liners and pistons. I do want to say that this was my first Renault motor and now I know why I am not allowed to return to work as a technician, I am disabled and now it’s sinking in,the my upper arm strength is not there. Stubborn as I am I was able to get the pistons moving easily , very easily when connected to the crank and torqued . It’s been about two hours no and no leaks. (Water check).
I still have a lot to do , but this is a milestone for me.
Then again more polishing.😀
Dakazman
-
Rotating the crank with pistons and con rod connected should be very easy - or was in my experience. It looks like you done good! ;)
You will definitely have the shiniest Europa anywhere! ;D
-
Yes it rotates very easy now compared to a lone piston in a cylinder...lol. My shoulders can’t push. Don’t grow old! My advice...just sayin.
Timing chain on also!😀
Dakazman
-
... Don’t grow old! My advice...just sayin.😀
I don't know D'man, it's better than the alternative!
Congratulations on your timing chain! :)
-
Not turning is bad.
Here is some inspiration , a lotus esprit!
Shiny
Dakazman
-
Yes, not turning is bad but what I said is not growing old is bad! :D
-
Lol yep .
-
Keep up the great work Dave! Your making real progress, plus learning all about Renault engines :beerchug:
-
Pulling parts out of bags today and sorting miscellaneous engine bolts . While cleaning and getting into the chain tensioner inner oil paths and construction I noticed the difference the wedge and crossflow differ. The crossflow doesn’t have the outer cavity bolt and retainer, once engaged it is set and needs to be unbolted and reset to be installed again. It also slightly sticks out of the cavity when fully installed whereas the wedge type sits behind cavity tab until set .
The wedge engine has the bolt and retainer the covers are the Allen wrench reset . The main reason for posting this is that I found a significant amount of metal chips in one of the assemblies, 4 in total that I collected, in the last chance filter in the assembly spring. The donor engine had two blown piston and I will definitely clean out that engines oil galleries. If anyone is rebuilding their engine Or replacing the chain, disassemble the tensioner completely and clean that filter.
Dakazman
-
There are many different permutations of the timing chain tensioner. Which you depends on the year of manufacture, or, when it was last changed. Any new one bought will work in either engine.
-
Pieces coming along, pulled out a he distributor again and found the shaft release pin . I’ll s under the coil spring on the lower shaft. It made I so easy to work on and free it up. For only 60 k on it it was binding a bit. After removing the shaft the base found the base shims and phenolic washers wore into the base. Removed from he burrs and now perfect. I also found a spare distributor that is in worse shape but will be a good parts donor for now.
As normal I got a little carried away and polished more parts while sitting under a fan and relaxing with beer in hand.
Dakazman
-
I changed it up a bit today and worked on my pedal assembly that’s been in a bag for 20 years.
I have all the rough dimensions necessary to fabricate . It was a struggle but I think I can keep must of it except for the base plate. I fabricated one up but will wait to weld up. I’m taking the Time to electro plate the individual pieces. Thanks certified...lol another task to protect some items.
Plating with nickel and it’s a first.
Broke out the water pumps and will follow JB’S plan on adding bearings to the shaft . I need AC.
Another delay is because I’m dead center in the now Cat 3 hurricane Dorian path . Readying the generator and all the other prep on Saturday. Took some pics to remind me what I might soon drive.
Dakazman
-
You and your family stay safe in the hurricane, D'man!
-
Dave, I’m smiling that your electroplating! Glad to hear you caught on :beerchug: Your doing great work, and that black painted body looks fantastic.
Good luck with the hurricane. Stay safe.
-
I wanted to take the AC drive off the front pulley but I couldn’t figure how to mount the compressor for that location.
-
Proceeded with the pedal assembly bracket and grease fitting modification. It’s now up to a point to weld it up. I added three key ways cut into the length of the clutch pedal shaft. This should distribute the grease along the entire shaft.
What is a good orientation of the pedals foward and aft? 12 o’clock being the pedals straight up.
11 o’clock being pedal tips aft or towards the driver ?
Dakazman
-
Another 8 hours of work on the pedal assembly I’m down to one more weld on the clutch cable arm.
The holdup was designing a stop pad on the base . My base was without any clue of where the clutch pedal adjustment bolt landed. With a tedious amount of tack and weld I think I have a working pedal assembly. I would have finished but a huge rainstorm blowing in all directions made me close up the garage doors. Tomorrow is another day.
Dakazman
-
I received the new cam from Renault 16 during the week. Tappets on my mind so to build the 821wedge and the 843 crossflow. The machinist said to get a new set. I being stubborn said there
Must be a way to recondition the tappets. Drill press and 220-2000 sandpaper, with an added dose is oil. They are flat tappets. I only needed to remove the surface pitting. The po of the crossflow must have replaced my them. This is what the final product looks like . I will bring them back to the machinist to see what he says. One is for sure the 821 and the hemi.
Dakazman
-
They are not flat! They are ground with a "crown" on them. Usually in the 2° to 3° range. The cam lobes are ground tapered to match. They are also surface hardened. Don't try to refinish them by hand. It has to be jigged and accurately done.
I had mine redone and was very happy with the work. I can dig up info on the place if you like. It was a US shop.
Meca parts has new ones in stock again.
-
Thanks John, if it’s not much trouble, that would be great.
I did find these on Mecca parts but I was ,am confused if they are correct for both the 821 and the 843 . See pics. I wish they had dimensions on them also. They are very helpful vendor. I find it somewhat difficult finding parts on their site.
On another topic I still need to find the face gaskets / O-Rings for all my gauges . (Speedometer, tachometer, oil ,fuel etc. any leads?
Dakazman
-
https://elgincams.com
$80 (not including shipping) back in 2014. They ground, "parkerized" and polished the lifters.
Same lifters are used on all the Renault A-type engines.
Nisonger instruments for gauge parts, gauges and repair.
-
Thanks JB, called nisonger and ordered both sets of gasket sets . $ 32. total with shipping.
It was too early to can Elgin on the tappets
. I also made progress with a complete gasket set for the crossflow from Italy, A perfect fit. I also unpacked the cam from France and gave it a quick visual on the lobes comparing it to the original. Renault16 did not know the specs, but it looks to be the same profile. Another thing to learn, cam
Mapping.
Dakazman
-
Tappets sent out today😀. Elgin cams will cut them 10$ ea. So that’s fine went 2 sets.
Nosingers came thru with a delivery of all the gauge and bezel gaskets.
Machinist still not done with my vette motor sleeve . I’ll keep moving forward.
Dakazman
-
A little update on the motors :
Renault head has all new exhaust valves installed. 😀. The tappets still at elgin.🥴 some numbers of water pumps from autozone and NAPA are no longer available. I have 3 but wanted a new assembly to do JB’s AC Mod.
The crossflow has a new timing chain and gear assembly coming. Tappets at elgin.
My other wedge has a complete set of valves coming, or just a spare head.
Vette motor - Waiting on machinist .
Preparing order for gearbox parts.
Dakazman
-
Geez D'man! You really need to get a hobby or you'll be bored in your retirement! :FUNNY:
-
Lol 😂 :FUNNY:
I have respect for those who work and take on a project like this. At times I feel I’m going backwards.
D’man ( I might get use to this name)
-
Keep the faith D’Man
-
I was going to post this on shiny thread .
I think I’ve found it’s inner beauty . Still a long way to go.
Dakazman
-
Jesus. You are clearly more possessed on the rebuild of your car than I ever was. I want to see it in person when it’s done!
-
Waiting on parts and raining, I just got bored. I’m still plating everything in site too. :FUNNY:
The good news is a few parts came in for my Weber dgv32 carb . All the suggested parts JB and Galvin listed except for the larger intake valves for the crossflow. I need to have some questions answered about finding larger valve seats to go with the larger diameter valves. The flingers are not a
original part for the S2, so I can start putting the hubs together. One question is it easier to assemble the shafts first? (See pic, not my setup but shows that this might be easier)
My gearbox rebuilding plan is to open, replace the seals, inspect and clean . Some advice I received was to replace the front and rear bearings. The input shaft needs to be resecured. A’m wide open what to inspect for wear, which might be funny because of how rare parts are.
Dakazman
-
Sigh, my memory gets worse and worse. I don’t even remember recommending DGV parts! Somebody put me out of my misery.
Any good machine shop can source valve seats.
How many miles are on the transaxle?
-
Sorry JB,
I should have started a new paragraph. You didn’t suggest any parts for the dgv. Yahoo people said if it’s an original rebuild it.
For the Wedge and crossflow builds
The suggestions such as replace the exhaust valves-done
New intakes - in transit
New timing chain and gears - in transit
Tensioner- in transit
Tappets - at Elgin cams getting cut.
The picture above is not my axles . But to answer your question m car had approximately 60,000 on it. It seems easier to assembly the shafts as shown in picture. I have all new universals and bearings to start. I do not have the tooling I’ve seen to pull into the hub. But to make a little progress I would at least assemble the universals.
Dakazman
-
At 60k I would simply change the seals and fill with fresh oil. For me changing the output/axle seals means removing the bell housing and adjusting the CW/P backlash at the same time. This is often messed up by people changing the output seals in the past.
I assembled my half-shafts prior to assembling the rear hubs/uprights.
-
Sometimes you just have to cleanup. 😀
Dakazman
-
My fuel sender unit is on the way from banks, they have some kinks to work out , but they were fast to catch a lost email.
Testing some paint with the change in the weather. Clear on Harley fender and some sealer on the nose repair. It’s almost straight enough for paint.
Still waiting for the engine parts and engine shop.
Dakazman
-
Tested the limits of the base coat/ clear coat process outside in high humidity and a nice breeze.
I had to do a blend in the back panel , I had good results using a blender so I gave it a try.
The front clip was also blended into the bottom door sill pin area. Your really going to get down to see it. Wednesday is the day for he final coat after tomorrow’s sanding.
-
Looks amazing, D'man! I can't wait for you to start building it!
-
Another slow week here, the butterfly effect ...California wildfires are causing havoc to Elgin cams, I received an email stating my order is just waiting for delivery but without power printing invoices, and billing is backed up. I replied to the owner to stay safe and take his time.
Buffing a few items up to pass the time a little dremmel work and the bell housing will be done . No painting due to high humidity and afternoon rain storms.
Sorry guys , feels like temps in high 90’s, and I feel for those of you getting freezing temps all ready.
Dakazman
-
You didn't polish the bolts!!
-
You didn't polish the bolts!!
Yes, I was also very disappointed. :FUNNY:
-
Good eye, BDA!
Still getting this nickel plating down pat. The bolts wer some of my first plating tries and I was going thru a lot of anodes , probably not pure, dipped again.
Thanks
D’man
I get it ! Lol I missed a spot!😁
-
Those look much worth of the bell housing they go in! :)
-
Getting ready for some painting again. 😂I needed a test piece. Trimming decals now.
Dakazman
-
You have love JPS black and gold!
-
I love the black and gold livery. 11 especially, but the decals only came in 5 & 6 .
Dakazman
-
Waited for a perfect day to put the final coat of clear on the front clip, after the repair to the front turn indicators . All went well and maybe I can start assembling soon.
Dakazman
-
Nicely done, D'man! It occurs to me that black, as beautiful as it is, might not be the best color for a car in Florida! What are you planning to do for the interior? Please don't say black vinyl!! Or are you planning on an A/C?
-
A dark brown to Oxford leather interior. I am sending that portion out to Florida upholstery In Orlando. The entire ac control system was acquired from a Mazda RX 7. I even have the entire harness and all actuators. Plus the electrical schematic.
The compressor will run off the water pump like JB perfected. I may need to find another machinist that can get the job done expeditiously.
Dakazman
-
Sounds like she'll be a winner!! Hurry up an finish her!!
-
John,That is going to be one shinny car when it is finished. Are you going to supply welders helmets so we can see her on a sunny day?
Sandy
-
That’s the look of all the cool kids. :FUNNY:
After reading everyone’s horror stories I’m afraid to put it together. First thing will be bumpers and tags so that she knows her name...
Dakazman
-
Don’t put the tags on. Bad karma. Ask me how I know........ Wait until it’s back together and running & ready for the road.
-
Glen,
I don’t remember reading any bad karma stories but since you brought it up ... spill the beans!
I only want to hear if no one gets hurt or injured.
Dave
-
Dave, it’s somewhere in my rebuild post. The minute I put the plates on my work in progress rebuild everything started taking twice as long to get done. I’m not superstitious but it was very obvious........
I should have kept them in the drawer they were stored in for 2 years and only mounted when I was ready for my first test drive.
Just sayin........
-
I think it’s as soon as paint goes on it takes 10 times longer. There is definitely something that happens, maybe that’s why lotus only built 9,947 in 9 years. Maybe we can start a thread on stalling points on a build.
Dakazman
-
A lot of my time went into redesigning or reconfiguring things. Plus the constant test fitting “dry” and then final build. The entire rolling chassis with engine & trans went quickly. Once the body came back from painting it went together fairly quickly. It was the last 20% of my build that took 200% longer due to my attention to detail and not wanting to cut corners. I was pretty specific about some of the obstacles in my build post and how I might tackle them differently next time. Other things just take man hours. Having a “helper” really makes things go faster. I was very fortunate to have several people with high levels of mechanical knowledge work with me to finish the rebuild at the end. Without them I never would have made it to LOG39.
-
Waited two days before sanding down the newly painted surface. Many have asked how I get a mirror finish so I tried to take pictures of the process.
I started with hand sanding with 1500 wet. Lightly wipe and sand the surface to cut the top coat and give you a visual of the highs and lows. First pics. Then proceed sanding with the line of products I laid out. I usually use a sander but the surface is so level that it had a vacuum effect and stopped the sandèr. I use the pad shown so it will not burn thru edges.
A few hours later the entire front clip was sanded and ready for compounding and polishing with the 3m 3 step process, With the types of foam pads . Soon.👍👍
Dakazman
-
Compound and polishing up nicely. Still have a long way to go but very pleased. Maybe this time it will pass quality control😀🤣 :FUNNY:
Dakazman
-
Man, you are the polishing Maniac! Can’t wait to see your car completed Dave. It will sparkle! :trophy:
-
More black mirrors, D'man!! Hopefully the shine will reflect some of the radiant heat you get down there!
-
Thanks guys I’ll take a win on this . hopefully, but when door to door came out , I feel very confident that parts can start going on soon . The front storage area and spare tire area were painted so that may look a little better.
Dakazman
-
I got sidetracked today a bit and polished up the elcamino but managed to get to step 2 polishing the Lotus. My wife , quality control inspector was pleased with the finish.
Dakazman
-
I managed to finish up the rear hubs and now there ready for assembly. I had to keep the noise down so I don’t disturb the neighbors weekend 😠. A cold front came through last night and sent the temperature clear down to 75. 65 in the morning. It’s was great to shutoff the A/C for a day and open the windows.
No new engine news..🙁
Dakazman
-
Is there nothing on this car that won't give your reflection?!
Great looking stuff, D'man!
-
So I have to ask, how long will all that metal polishing last if you leave it alone? Will you apply some type of polish sealant to keep the finish?
Look really great Dave :beerchug:
-
Thanks guys,
The rims on my 2005 motorcycle were polished by the factory, I polished them again in 2011 and they still look great. I spray some rim cleaning solution, wash off and wipe dry . This industrial cleaner called aluma-new was used to etch aluminum bread trucks and airstreams back to an instant shine.
Sanding the porous surface to 2000 grit leaves the surface smooth so nothing gets into the aluminum and corrodes it. Same idea with aluminum mags .
Dakazman
-
Just finished sanding the head to 3000 . I’ll hit some areas with a dremmel but another thing off my list.😀
Dakazman
-
So how long did it take to polish the head with 3000 grit?
-
So.....total time to polish the head?
-
I’ll time it tomorrow, the hubs took about 20 minutes each on the buffer.
Dakazman
-
D'man, people are going to have to wear sunglasses around your car! :BEER3:
-
BDA, I hope so. Even on a cloudy day.😂
Certified,
Polishing for Another 5 minutes with brown rouge resulted in this finish. See pic. It only gets better from there. Second pic is a arsenal of tools.
Total work time on head 6-8 hours. Depending on all the interruptions... but that’s another story.Lol.
Dakazman
-
Not much progress today but I received a early bday present from Elgin cams😀 without any knowledge my tappets showed up at the door UPS/ COD! I couldn’t write the check fast enough.
Now I have something else to do other than polish and sanding.
Dakazman
-
Alright!! Tappets!! :beerchug::
-
:BEER3:
:beerchug: :beerchug: 😁
-
Now the fun begins.......
-
Yes fun, going over the manual on head assembly again but , I may go back to work ☹️
I did a new fangled video interview for a managers position. I learned one thing fast , I’m not an actor!
So that may slow me up!
Dakazman
-
I know,... I have a lot to do and painting could have been done in 5 minutes but I just wanted a one of 9000 car. The funny part is that this engine might not go in my car. I now have all the parts for the Crossflow except for th dual Weber’s , headers and starter. It was fun building this original motor but the need for speed is calling.
Dakazman
-
I have the answer for polished aluminum surfaces protection . I will get back you when I get a test sample. Here is their reply and operational temperatures .
Ouote,
You wrote: I have a highly polished antique engine . Will the protect product work and how long will it work?
Hi David,
ProtectaClear Coating is the coating for your motor parts. ProtectaClear is an easy to apply, one part clear protective coating that will seal and protect metal from sun, salt air, oxidation, corrosion, moisture, tarnish and other damaging elements. The amount of time it lasts depends upon the use and abuse that it gets
If you polished or cleaned with any acid based products, the surface will have to be neutralized before coating.
ProtectaClear is tough and durable and is practically invisible on polished metal. The coating is stable up to 500 degrees, and will gas off at 660 deg F. We have many car enthusiasts that use ProtectaClear on their cars, not only on engine and engine parts, but also on their trim and rims.
The metal to be protected will need to be completely clean and solvent wiped with either denatured alcohol, acetone or xylene before applying the coating. The solvent wipe will insure that the coating will adhere properly. Then, ProtectaClear can be applied by spraying, brushing or wiping it onto the surface. ProtectaClear is self leveling so any brush or wipe marks will level out when left alone to dry.
ProtectaClear will not chip, crack or peel and will never discolor, darken or yellow.
We will be happy to help you figure out what you would need for your project. ProtectaClear can be purchased by itself or in Kits with polishes and cleaners securely on our website or by calling our office at 800-304-0566 or +916-852-0200.
Please contact us if you have any additional questions. I am looking forward to hearing from you.
Thanks again for your interest.
Jennifer Allgood
Customer Service
Everbrite, Inc.
916-852-0200 Direct
800-304-0566 Toll-Free
Dakazman
-
For parts that don’t get hot you could use wheel wax. For the rest you could try something like ACF50, it’s an anti corrosion oil, safe to use on the engine, but it has to be reapplied annually. The advantage over products like Protectaclear is that it won’t start to peel off one day.
-
Gideon,
Thanks for that info. I’ll try any product and am still researching how off shore racers keep there superchargers polished. Luckily a veteran cigarette race boat builder moved in down the street. I am 95 percent finished polishing up the hard side of the engine, right side, with all it’s nooks and crannies.
Dakazman
-
Impressive results and work Dave. You have my undivided attention.
-
Certified, this side was only sanded to 1000. Mostly done with a dremmel a popsicle stick to get into the small crevices. I purchased a 50 pack of various pads from China that work very well for 7.59 shipped from China. And a 50 pack. of wire brushes.
Polishing with a dremmel is slow , tomorrow I’ll hit it with my 1/4 die grinder with various buffing wheels . It will bring out all the swirl marks.
For Polishing rouge use this Guide
https://blog.esslinger.com/guide-to-buffing-compounds-and-their-uses/
I worked badly smashed, dinged, scratches and bent trim on stainless steel for my elcamino.
Hammering, filing, sanding and polishing up so you cannot see any damage. That is an art.
Dakazman
-
Check out a product called Sharkhide. You just apply it with a rag. It is supposed to last a couple of years and then you can just wipe on another coat. You don't have to remove the old coat.
-
Thank RJ,
I forgot to hit post a few day ago . I will read the reviews on that product.
I took a break from doing yard work and sanding and polishing the engine to sanding and polishing up the body. I still need to sand the spare tire area and boot. Couldn’t pass up a chance to take a picture of the engine outside next to the body. I just had it outside filled with water to check the liner seals again since it’s been awhile I sealed them. They have been bolted down. Next rainy day the head is going on.
-
Shiny! Are you sanding and polishing the clear coat on the body to get it even more shiny?
-
Yes I am , I lightly scuff with 1500 wet after drying you see the high and lows in the surface. On a flat surface ideally use 3000 -5000 grit wet then compound and polish out the scratches from sanding.
Buff with foam pads yellow/ orange/ white/ black/ blue (course to fine) do not burn thru the clear.
There are many tutorials on YouTube. Yes u can start sanding with a sander but hand sanding is safer.
Even when polishing ,you can burn through . learn your setting on the buffer.
Dakazman
-
Polishing up nicely and soon I will start assembling 😅. I promise! Scratch removal compound applied.
Working as fast as I can but need to keep my quality control up to what I expect of myself. Going through these pictures you’ll see why.
-
She looks great D'man! I can't wait for you to stop polishing her and start putting her back together!
-
Made some progress today getting things ready for reassembly. Drilling and tapping the head for the studs for the original manifold. Installed plugs awhile back but never got around to finish. Tomorrow I should be able to set the head on after I re align the timing chain dissy. I was turning the engine and engine he dissy fell out of the block.
Another setback is the fuel quantity sender from lotus supplies was not the correct answer unit. Nice vent line and float arm to short. A test of the fuel tank sealer went perfectly and that will also be done.
Cut the template for my firewall and adding a few mounting brackets. The entire wall is in 3 sections and can be removed from the inside.
So back to sanding buffing and painting. 🤪
Dakazman
-
It looks like you're starting to make real progress (not that painting isn't progress!). But the real progress happens when you use wrenches! ;D
-
I’m just glad my shelves are getting cleaned off. There were several other jobs that I didn’t mention he most important is the rebuilding of the wiper motor assembly. It looks like that’s one of the first items installed under dash.
Along with the gas pedal... drilling new holes up into the forward boot will be fun too.
D
-
Done!
Really it’s done , I finished polishing it out yesterday. Now I can paint the remaining areas with a brush, satin black then start hanging parts . Fuel tank would have been first however the fuel sender was not for an s2 as described. See pics.
I’m also still waiting for my machinist to press a sleeve into the vette motor so I can put that engine back in. ☹️
Dakazman
-
Puts my car to shame ! Well done Dave!
-
Oh no ! Yours is beautiful also.
Dakazman
-
First item on!
Now She has the, Right direction. :FUNNY:
Now it’s going to be a little restraint on my part so I don’t make her to heavy to place on her frame.
Dakazman
-
Cake walk from here on Dave. Should have her up and running by early spring at the latest! (Well, that depends on how more polishing your doing).
-
Polishing up the Crossflow next but am still waiting for my machinist to press in the sleeve...🙁 on the Corvette engine. Those parts are all over my garage.
March or April is doable. Seats and the rear taillight assemblies need to get sent out . The tail lights second look at went from good enough to sad.
-
You are building it for "wrong-hand drive", right? :FUNNY:
Good luck with the rest of the lights! :beerchug:
The next milestone is to use wrenches! :)
-
BDA,
Today and tomorrow is a no noise day per the wife. I use an air ratchet and without a compressor going there is not much air. Digging my way into the wiper assembly somewhere in my garage that needs to be checked out. Also making a list of items I missed buying. Painted the underside yesterday.
Looking at it without a front bumper for the last time. It also looks like a spaceship without wheels.
From this angle you really see it aerodynamic shape.
Dave
-
You know you're really spoiled when you just have to use an air ratchet!! :)
A chrome bumper will look great on the black car!
-
The bumpers will go on . They were rechromed, all new chrome bolts from R&D also. Broke out the quiet 🤫 ratchet. :FUNNY:
I hope this is disassembled enough for the plating shop!
Question: what is the correct orientation of the license plate lights? The higher section aft to block the white light?
Question: in a straight line from the engine cover vent holes, what is the dimension to the center of the hinges?
Dakazman
-
Did you glass in your hinge holes? Sorry I can't help you with that since we have different engine covers.
I think you want the high section on the outside - I think it has a reflector. Take a look and see or light them up and see where the light goes.
Glad you also have a quiet ratchet! :))
-
Thanks again BDA, yes , they had severe stress cracks . I have an approximate location from the single stud but even that was filled.
Another question on the engine was JB Mentioned checking the oil pump . The dimensions are good but should I fill the cavity in the block and turn engine before initial startup?
Dakazman
-
If you didn't glass over the holes in the body, you should be able get a good location by putting the engine cover on and line up the hinges.
-
She’s got some bling on and knows her name, but she can’t see where she’s going.... but gives directions. 😂 :FUNNY:
I chose the original Lotus badge over a imitation memorial badge , it looks good but it’s not original.
-
She’s got some bling on and knows her name, but she can’t see where she’s going.... but gives directions.
That's really funny! :)
-
Brings back memories of when I put my fresh chrome bumper on earlier this year. Your moving now Dave.
-
Looks terrific Dave! Chrome and mirror black really makes her come alive, keep up the great work!
wrt your mention of the black "memorial badge", I recently got spanked elsewhere online for referring to the black badge as such. There seems to be a consensus on other forums that the circumstances and timing of the black badges were just a coincidence, not related to Jim Clark's death. How do our members weigh in on this?
http://www.lotuselan.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=35604&start=
https://www.justcollecting.com/miscellania/jim-clark-black-lotus-badge-myth
t
-
Thanks guys , finding jobs to do and a block of time to match lately has been difficult. However I’m sticking to getting one thing done a day per expert advice.
Thanks surf for the links , I enjoyed reading up on the controversial subject. I read about the black badge being a memorial nothing else. Mine was built in 70 has the yellow and green nose badge and the black badge on the steering column.
Dakazman
-
I believe that the black badges were commissioned when they were running out of yellow and green ones. Chapman hit the roof when he saw them. When he was told that they were cheaper he changed his mind! I think that came from Graham Arnold, the sales director at the time. The badges also appeared before Jim Clark’s death. There’s a period road test of an S3 with a black badge that predates the crash.
Your car looks fabulous.
-
Thanks Bodzer, for the compliment. I see that you have seen many Europa’s up close, many more than the two I’ve seen. Prfreens and literarymadness’s. I’m just doing my best. Sometimes excessive 😂.
I see now all that you said is on a fast google search. As it is stated Chapman said to put it on all vehicles after Jim Clark’s death for a period of time. Will h that said, no wonder it’s called a memorial badge.Some owners, from what I’ve read have denied this story. I see how all this could have started, I guess we’ll never know exactly.
Dakazman
-
I see now why the left headlight housing was bashed in and getting ready to start malletizing it . I read about it after I repaired it. I successfully installed the right housing ,all new holes in the body and mounted the assembly.
Another item I’m practicing is removal of the headlight rings , off the car of course. I have the single spring clip on the bottom type. Thanks for the heads up certified 👍👍.
Polished up the air duct hose flanges just to keep in practice.
Dakazman
-
Now she can see where she’s going!
I placed the radiator and drilled it’s mounting holes and set in the headlight housing much to my surprise it all fit . I didn’t have the bash in the housing and still have room for the fan shroud. Added the wiring loom very cheap from China. 👍👍
One question, is this the air bleed valve on top of the radiator and is there supposed to be a cap for it.
Dakazman
-
IIRC, my radiator had a petcock (captive wing-nut type closure) there. Can you do anything (open or close) it?
-
Thanks BDA,
I haven’t tried yet . I’m going there remove it and see how it works, if that is what it is.
Working around my wife’s list of Christmas to do chores. But managed to also seal the inside of the fuel tank. I have to modify the float assembly on the sender , weld a longer float rod and bend . It was just here inches shorter but was supposed to be for an S2.
Dakazman
-
I now have a completion date to shoot for , April 11 Jupiter Florida, Wheels across the pond.
I enjoyed this show with literarymadness and PFreen last year so hopefully I can get there. 👍👍
Dakazman
-
Go for it, D'man!!
-
D'man: I am already planning on you being there. :beerchug:
-
Hi Dave, here is a picture of my S2 rad pepcock for draining the air. Hope this helps.
Sandy
-
Thanks Sandy, that’s the type I’m familiar with. I need to order a gasket for the temp sender so I’ll stop by the local parts stores and see if they have something that will fit. I can’t believe how heavy this radiator is. Today I had little time for the Lotus other than adding the LOTUS name and finding screws to the two engine cover screens.
Tomorrow I’ll try to add my oil pan and reposition the engine on stand to set the lifers and pushrods.
Then add clutch and pressure plate and gearbox.
Dakazman
-
Found the hole location for the engine cover hinges, and with the help of the new grommets was able to install at least the large side. The grills for the are original, wow were they a pain to install even with 3 of the 4 holes. The LOTUS letters just needed some enlargement. I purchased the retainer clips but they seem to need a little silicone to make sure they stay on. I assumed you he clips for the s2 and Europa badge came with new badges 😭.
-
The Lotus letters add the needed bling. I hope you polished them first! :beerchug:
-
And now she knows her name! :)
-
I love your saying, BDA. I used it a few times myself.
70guy,
Me polish :FUNNY Maybe just a little. I had to straighten them slightly by hand , not fun!
Dakazman
-
Looking great Dave! I had the same problem with my new letters and the retainer clips. I wasn’t willing to drill larger holes in the rear deck lid for the retainer clips so I silicone glued the retainers to the back of the pins on the rear of the fiberglass deck.
-
Thanks Certified, I see why now why a dab of silicone would help. Shopping around for hardware is killing time. I’m so glad you got me going with the plating. Now I’m getting better results results with the process.
I may tackle the rear window next as a small job . Then rear axle u joints, or motor.
Still waiting for my machinist to finish my vette motor ☹️. I pulled a he motor about 6 months ago. Just venting,
Dakazman
-
Glad you got into plating, in the long run it will save time and money. Plus the results are worth it all. Rear window....good luck on that. Read my post on installing and don't even try to do it by yourself!
-
Dave: You're making me want to drive back up there to see your progress in person. :)
-
Dave: You're making me want to drive back up there to see your progress in person. :)
Wes, your on the list of drivers! I’ll definitely be at Jupiter with or without the car. Anytime you have a gig up this direction is fine with me.
One small item that may slow down everything is ....
My first GRANDSON. :beerchug:
Dakazman
-
Dave: You're making me want to drive back up there to see your progress in person. :)
Wes, your on the list of drivers! I’ll definitely be at Jupiter with or without the car. Anytime you have a gig up this direction is fine with me.
One small item that may slow down everything is ....
My first GRANDSON. :beerchug:
Dakazman
Congrats on the Grandson, D-man! :pirate:
Tom
-
Yes, congratulations on your first grandson, D'man!! :beerchug: I hope you and Mrs. D'man have a passel of grandkids!
-
Congrats on the Grandson! Make sure he has a toy sports car on the shelf of his nursery. Start them young!
-
Congrats on the grandson! That is great news. Better teach him to polish to get in those tight spots, LOL.
-
Thanks guys, the baby is due March 24th. Mother and father doing fine .
April festivities may cancel my plans. It s all wait and see at this point.
Dakazman
-
Congratulations on the prospective grandson! I predict polished wheels on the pram!
-
Thanks Bodzer, I had to look up what a price was. Lol I’ll get him Right on it.
Spent a day unpacking and finding parts the side markers are in dire straits. Polishing them up and melting them with rubbing alcohol while sanding with 1500 grit . Then polished the lenses up on the wheel. Found some really professional splices here too. :FUNNY:
Today I mated and installed the original 821-30 engine in the frame. I then cleaned off the shelves and placed the crossflow on the stand to start working on it.
At least I should have a roller soon.
Dakazman
-
Reading this a few days late but congrats grandpappy :beerchug:
-
Restoring all those old lamps is a big thankless job because nobody sees it but there's a certain pride in bringing an old part back to life. Great job getting the motor into the frame!
-
Your in the midst of one of my favorite jobs Dakazman. Putting the car back together. AND, while reassembling deciding on small details you haven’t thought of before that are all time consuming to execute but well worth it in your mind. It’s a joy! Relish it!
-
Thanks Literarymadness,
Certified, I am enjoying it ! Pulling parts of the shelves that I’ve been collecting when available. Picking the best of the bunch but reconditioning all to there best appearance. So many new items also waiting in boxes. Some new purchases need modifications to work properly. Testing each part before installing New shopping list being compiled , hopefully Santa will be able to fit in his sled. :FUNNY:
Finishing jobs started months ago now really need to get done if I push my April show date.
Dakazman
-
Good to have a date to finish in mind. LOG39 for me was the big push, but more importantly was the road trip to LOG and back. I had the same when I restored my Elan S1, the New Hope Auto Show was my goal. I made it, but it took a lot of all nighters to get done. Keep focused on your goal.
-
I decided to finish up some small jobs that take up some space. I may have to sneak the dash inside the house, somewhere safe and away from kids. Adding parts to my list to order while cleaning and rebuilding. My panasport hubcaps are beyond repair so what do you guys s think about caps , green , black or pana logo?
I also spent some time adding all the new seals in all the gauges and gaskets for gauges to dash.
Fabricated and Nickel plated some of the brackets that hold the gauges in. Started on the windscreen motor assembly and would like some suggestions on the proper grease . The manual just states grease! I was amazed that when I disassembled the how clean the internals were.
Also finishing up the firewall.
Dakazman
-
With that exterior paint, black center caps seem to be the way to go!
-
+1 for black Lotus logos...unless you want to be seen from the side at night, in which case programmable LED rims https://gizmodo.com/pimpstar-led-car-rims-162990 (https://gizmodo.com/pimpstar-led-car-rims-162990)
-
OK, Black it is .
Silver , Lol that’s just as bad as spinners. :FUNNY:
I hoped I would be able to install the fuel tank but the new sender does not ohm out correctly 😭 very intermittent. My next job was the wiper assembly found one motor casing screw Head stripped, so I slotted it and got it out. It looks like a 3/16 x3” 6 or 8/32 thread. This is just my reminder to buy one before I end up working under the dash one day swearing.... another problem is one of the wheel box assembly retainer threads are stripped off . I hope R&D have a 036m6151. I found this number from the parts catalog item 6 section m , however the great parts people at R&D have it at 054m6056. 😀
Dakazman
-
Continue to finish up some lingering items. I decided to use the binacle that I was making for the mold for others. I can always come back to it . I found the location for the engine cover hinges and drilled out new holes . They work flawlessly and if I get some spare time I’ll take on the gas strut mod.
Polished up the water pump and radiator fan bracket, sorry it was in bad shape but now a piece of artwork.
Dakazman
-
Looks great, D'man! Are you going to paint the binnacle black like everybody else's? :)
I like the polished fan mount! It matches all the other shiny stuff on your car! ;D
-
Thanks BDA, yes the binacle will be satin Black. Dakazman need to prime then seal it. After that I’ll put the glove box in and hide it inside my house somewhere safe.
Hopefully his weak I’ll get the rear axles installed but I’ll have to read up on the bearing assembly instructions. Then I’ll have that roller. Another item is the emergency brake cable, body insulation and the body...on frame. 😂. Happy dance!!!
Dakazman
-
Your metal polishing skills are way way up there Dave! Fabulous work as usual!
-
Thanks Certified.
A few members said go with the black and silver hub caps . Good choice, I would have been thinking about it for a week. The frame looks so wide now that the wheels are on and I’ll stop banging into the front hubs with my shins. :FUNNY: back to work!
Dakazman
-
Looks great Dave! Where did you get your tires? I did a search for Firestone Firehawk 900s in 185/60/R13 and 206/60/R13 and the only hit for the 185s was in the UK and the 205s were all in Mexico. No US suppliers came up.
Tom
-
Hey Tom , happy holidays!
Search eBay 205 60 13 or 185 that’s where I got them from.
Dakazman
-
At least the front wheels are on the ground! It looks great, D'man, but you didn't polish the anti-roll bar!! :FUNNY:
Are you using the stock front shocks!?
-
No more polishing!....maybe ! I’m still opening bags of parts but I think it’s safe to say done to polishing. Chrome plating, maybe . Ouch, on the tail light assemblies $150.00 each and it will ruin the light reflection lens. I need to figure out a way to pry up the swedged tabs and remove. It looks like those tabs were pressed down. Later the drive axles and lower links will be chrome plated.
I sold my Mazda 13 b engine today so more Lotus parts to buy. 😀
The shocks are not original , they have a shorter spring and I picked them up on eBay and at least the mount studs are on them. All that can be changed later after I drive it. I have read about different setups but will let a few experts drive it to offer advice. You can be on the list! Wesley and Paul both have many miles logged in there cars. I can get it in the ballpark but it may not be in the right state.
I pulled out a complete A/C with all the electrical components , harness from an Mazda RX 7 that I will sort out and add into the lotuseuropa harness. Air conditioning is a must. I also have its oil cooler system.
Dakazman
-
What a gross miscalculation of time to reassemble all the sidelights with all new gaskets. I can’t believe what it takes to change a lightbulb. I don’t know if it would have been easier with some broken in gaskets. I have about 19 photos going thru the assembly. Key items , clean all bulb contacts and socket. Test the socket with a new bulb before assembling. The smaller lens is wedge shaped, high side to center. Patiently stretch the gasket over the chrome bezel. Have a beer afterwards, you just did 2 in 4 hours , mounted.
I can’t wait to mount the front but with a shroud that is riveted in a huge hole
Dakazman
-
Everything takes at least twice as long as you expected. My last estimate of 100 hours to complete my rebuild got blown out of the water the closer I got to completion. Your in the home stretch with each part going back on the car.
Chrome axles? Your going to be cleaning those daily after each drive. Which leads me to a little story about an early Porsche 911 I bought. I was looking for a 911 that was built in the last year of the air cooled engines. Found one locally after a year of searching that a scientist owned. Less than 12K miles and looked like it had just come out of the showroom floor. The owner interviewed me for about an hour on the phone wanting to know what type of sports cars I had owned and then came over to my house to see the garage space I would put the Porsche in. We finally went for a test drive and upon return to his garage (which by the way was nothing special) he opened the rear engine deck lid, got two beers out of the refrigerator & gave me one while he sat on a rolling stool with a box of Q-tips and proceeded to clean the entire engine compartment of road dust. He did this after every drive. Some how I convinced him I would take equally as good car of his car and was able to buy it. The car was in such perfect condition I was a total nut about keeping it that way. It really drove me a bit crazy. I finally sold it at a higher price then I paid for it and promised myself never to be that fanatical about a car again. Well, maybe.......
-
I guess you can Chrome the half-shafts if you like. Will mean lots of cleaning as Certified mentioned. I would not Chrome the lower links as they are. Chroming enbrittles the base metal. It might be ok but I wouldn’t take the chance. You could make up new ones that are stronger and chrome them. Or, better make them up from SS and polish them.
-
That’s further down the road. Up north, N.J, , I had a truck driveshaft shop that made up anything you wanted and balanced it . Not much industrial fabrication shops here in Florida . Just waiting on another inner bearing and for room in our freezers for the haft-shafts. To much holiday cake and ice cream. Wife may not be onboard with car parts in her freezers. 🙁
One other question is on the cam bolt, lock-tite or antisieze?
Dakazman
-
There must be a four wheel drive community in Florida. If so, there will be driveshaft shops somewhere near by.
-
Finishing up these blinker assemblies and testing, but ,finding the specified preservative seem impossible to find but I finally found it. The assemblies all tested perfectly. Attention to details 🧐
Dakazman
-
Does it work on LED's too?😁
-
Absolutely.
🤥🤥🤥🤥🤥
-
I assembled one side of the rear suspension. Scale of 1-10 a high 8. 10 being the hardest. The other side is in the freezer . tomorrow I will give it another try of pressing the inner bearing installed.
I haven’t had this many tools out in a long time . BDA you’d be proud. Certified working on the ground is for the birds. getting the 150 ftlbs of torque was my biggest problem. Trying not to use my shoulders which have a 30 lb restrictions.
-
Well done, D'man! That 30 lb limit on your shoulder certainly would make it pretty difficult to get the proper torque! A long cheater bar is your friend! That's the biggest torque you'll have to deal with so the rest should be easy, right?
Is that a wrap on your lower link and half shaft? That's pretty nice looking!
-
Thanks you! BDA, it should hold up pretty good also. I missed painting the half shaft section by the hub I had a rubber tire tube over it to protect it , mainly when I had half a universal done. My leg/calf and ankle muscles still work with the cheater bar. 🥵
The wife still hasn’t seen the half shaft in freezer , I may be safe till tomorrow.
Dakazman
-
Nice work Dakazman! Looking good. I like the black “carbon” look better than silver but I’m not sure how long a wrap will last. As BDA said, use a cheater bar. I have two of them for different applications. You would be surprised how many times I have used them.
I hide my metal bits in the freezer in the back and put frozen food in front of it. My darling wife had no idea. When it came to heating things up in the oven I knew that would be crossing the line as there would be an oil or metal smell.......I used the gas grill outdoors which worked fine.
-
I was thinking about using a heat gun, comments? I may spray a few coats of clear on the wrap. It is the same stuff I used on dirt bikes and it lasted at least thru a few spills . Speaking of bikes my daughter surprised me with another bike for her collection.
Dakazman
-
Don’t use a heat gun! The heat spread will be uneven and you will crack something. Heat the entire part uniformly in an oven or gas grill. I used welding gloves and a large pliers to handle hot parts.
-
Thanks got it , this is a very close tolerance bearing fit.
On other matters I’m filling up the gearbox and will check for leaks. Firewall panels are fitted but I’ll need to build up a few layers of glass and soundproofing. Seats trays sent out for upholstery. I went out and purchased the batting and vinyl for door panels. Doors next , since I’m emptying my shelves and can tear down the scaffold . That will give me a little more room to work on the door assembly. I promise to strap them down. I also ordered a tire for my spare 175/13. Finding bolts for my water pump , what a job even with having thematic bagged they were in terrible shape th manual shows and least 3 different sizes of metric bolts . So not just polishing, but when I do it’s because I’m resting and watching the grandkids, with my wife... I’m just backup.
One more day and I should have a real roller!
Dakazman
-
Decided to wait for my machinist to come back from vacation before trying to mount the inner bearing on shaft. I tapped out!
Managed to repair my fuel sender that had in intermittent open . I removed the sender cover and immediately saw the problem, the contact on the circuit board was to long . After a few bends to shorten the length. Another problem was that the range stops were way off in the total travel, which caused the contact to leave the board windings completely.
Reassembled and works like a charm.
Many other items also coming together but now for the big jobs, Doors , windows .
Rebuilding the Weber dgv carb, distributor, and finding a mechanical fuel pump, a gear reduction starter for a wedge.
Dakazman
-
Way to go, D'man! Not everybody will get into gory details of rebuilding a fuel level sender! :trophy:
-
Hello Dakazman,
that's a very smart-looking wheel and hub cap!
Mark
-
Very odd about the contact. Good catch. Your like me, it isn’t working I’m going to figure it out and fix it. You’ve got the right attitude Dman :beerchug:
-
Mark ,
thank you! I didn’t mention the spare tire . It really does seem to block the airflow and at the same time divert the airflow directly to the radiator. It’s just another piece of the puzzle to get done.
BDA and Certified,
The good news is now I can install the fuel tank. This sender is new!!! I’m glad I tested it before installing. The other mod to it is that it did not come with a vent connection. I think I solved that by having a tc fuel cap instead on the s2 cap. I’ll need to cut and weld the neck of it at an angle so the flex line will be more direct. It’s addition work but the flip top cap looks great.
Dakazman
-
I thought I’d add some pictures of the difference of the fuel caps. I still need to weld up .
Dakazman
-
That should be nice!
-
Playing around a bit and finishing up a few items. Great news is that my gearbox holds fluid after sitting overnight. 😀
My wife felt creative and made me a new water container, it was the best!
Put some bling on the engine and a third coat of clear on another dash. No radio on it.
I have been working on the bulkhead panels ,5 each, and doing some destructive testing, setting on fire but now pictures yet. I recorded a video but haven’t uploaded it to YouTube yet.
Dakazman
-
Very nice! The dash and rocker cover look great! I love the cup!
-
Nice looking dash. No radio - I like.
-
Thanks Bainford,
I was just going to post a side by side and a vote on which one gets installed. Top original with a satin finish and lower high gloss. I still need to add the placards and seal edges and reclear.
Carb rebuilding time ! I have a step by step pics I found on the net. That will take out some yellow to-do tape. Gas filler neck welded up and at correct angle to feed tank. New fuel pump coming in along with the wheel boxes for wipers. Mine were good but the attaching hardware was almost round. Thanks Ray and R&D. 👍
Dakazman
-
I'm surprised you'd ask about the dash - shiny of course!! ;D
-
Lol 😂
I’m leaning that way and since you voted that’s 2-0. I think bainford is for no radio also, so then 3-0.
Dakazman
-
Definitely shiny! :beerchug:
-
I’m a no radio fan. If you want one for a long trip just bring along a self powered Bluetooth speaker and an iPhone loaded with tunes.
Plus you save weight without radio, speakers and wiring!
Back to the real subject, your assembly looking real good Dave :beerchug:
-
And another vote for shiny. My radio doesn't work and I don't really miss it 8)
-
Very cold here today 55F, so with the garage doors closed I’ll try to assemble the Weber DGV32/36 5A carb . I ordered a redline rebuild kit that I immediately found out it did not come with some basic parts.
I must have watched and read everything on the net and beyond. If anything I’ll have gained some knowledge. I’ll keep you posted. Cleaning is done.
Dakazman
-
Pretty shiny, D'man, but I have to say, not up to your usual standards! :)
-
I took JB’S advice from the engine and painted it . It’s turning out well and only need a few screw, set the float level and clean and attach some linkage. I may need to go back and find pictures from my blackberry several years back. I saved you the gory details this time. Lol 😉. The instructions sheet omitted the names of items giving only a number. Starting assembly with 1 and working till I felt comfortable with finishing up tomorrow.
Finished up the fuel pump and installed. Tested wiper motor and install new wheelhouses.
It’s getting there , machinist back from vacation so I’ll run my last axle bearing by his shop.
Dakazman
-
Continued working on the carb linkage, good thing I transferred it to a piece of safety wire the way it came off the shafts. I laid it all out cleaned and reinstalled. Some clocking was needed and connecting to other shafts and stops.
Choke arm still not smooth as I would like but I think I found the problem with the paint pastiche guide in housing.
1. I also need some help with sorting out some items and carb base gaskets .
2. Are these thick base gaskets necessary? Are they just for better atomization?
Dakazman
-
You need a thick "insulator" to reduce the amount of heat being transferred to the carb.
-
Thanks JB,
While I was inspecting the insulators the air , vacuum have been pinched off into the chamber.
Do you recommend I open them back up, to get the airflow thru the base? It seems like a good idea.
My box of space carb and linkage is items is now empty and off my rapidly increasing space.
Dakazman
-
No, don't open the insulators up. Any port that needs connecting is relieved so it does.
-
Thanks JB , I’ll keep the pinched one and toss the other. See pic.
Wheel box assemblies on and wiper motor works. For those who never saw the internals of the wiper assembly, here you go. The wheel box assembly walks on the cable when the head is turned. Still plenty of lubricant in the lines after 50 years. You can see they also come with new nuts which will be getting anti seize so they don’t end up like this old one.
Dakazman
-
Cleaned up the isolators and will use the pinched off one. Still need 3 throttle plate screws before I can mount carb . I just don’t want to drop anything down into the manifold. Placed in position to get a better idea of a fuel line and cables.
Connected the shifter linkage and modified the Gearbox shifter rubber bellows with a spark plug sleeve cut in half and placed over the spring assembly one one side. The shifter side was trimmed down a little shorter no spring inside. I may add one, but it should do the job of the rubber bellows.
Dakazman
-
I’m going over some items I put aside and completed most. E brake cables now installed but still need adjustment after I get that last pesty bearing on the hub. It also seems that the cable should have been on the top of cooling tubes . The adjustment bracket taps the tubes when pulled. It was a joy to work on and I can’t imagine installing it with the body on.
Rock guard on the radiator installed a little differently. I used screws from the inside, tightened with nuts , leaving enough of a stud to mount the Protective grill secured with nuts. Mount it this way makes it easier to clean, removal of radiator simplified, especially if you have a wheel well fan.
The speedometer cable is installed the the frame however I may have I coming out in the wrong area, any comments?
I also would like some opinions on a oil cooler location. See pic. Should it be lower than oil tank? The heat shield that’s also pictured is in the approximate location of a muffler.
Dakazman
PS . I had a run in with a snake that munched down on my right hand , luckily hitting the bone below the thumb. Swelling went down but it looked pretty bad at first.
-
Wow Dave, I hope you know what kind of snake bit you! Nasty swelling! Clearly you were in a place the snake didn’t want you.
I think the speedo cable goes on the other side of the chassis (unless it’s RHD). On the TC chassis the speedo cable hole is on the side of the chassis. Where you currently have the speedo cable is where the oil line goes.
-
Ouch! I hope it wasn't really poisonous! We get copperheads here. I can really do without them.
You're making great progress! I think the best place for an oil cooler is in front of the radiator. I think the air flow out of the engine compartment will be similar between an S2 and a TC with a duct out the back - though the S2 will probably have a bit more flow out the back. I have a cooler that is under the luggage tray and exhausts out a louvered vent next to the license plate. The air flow out that vent is pretty ambiguous. Much more of the air goes out the vents in the engine cover.
-
Is an oil cooler stock with an S2? If it isn’t I would opt to not install it if your not going to track the car. Just another device with hoses and connections to leak.
-
I would agree with Certified. I have an oil cooler with an oil thermostat and given evidence from an IR thermometer, I think I've rarely needed it. If you're planning on sever use for some extended time and/of your engine is highly stressed an oil cooler would be useful, otherwise I'm not sure it's worth the trouble and expense.
-
I put my oil cooler up front. It is not directly in the air flow but off to the side. The back of the cooler is ducted to the wheel well. AS you drive the plenum is pressurized and air flows through the cooler and out into the wheel well. It works great. It does, however involve a lot of plumbing. And it complicates oil changes. I have access ports in the lines so I can blow the old oil out of the cooler. I use an electric pump to prime and pressurize the system with fresh oil.
I drive long distances and over steep mountain passes. If you don't, you may not need an oil cooler.
Another solution can be found here:
https://www.prevanders.net/europa/oilsystem.html
This is the ONLY way to mount it in the rear compartment. Any other position does diddly squat.
-
JB, I think your A/C is a good reason to consider an oil cooler and that reminds me that D'man is planning on an A/C for his car too so an oil cooler might not be such a bad idea for him. I also agree that Dave Anderson's rear oil cooler implementation (the one your link points to) is the only one I've seen that makes sense (now that I know what I know).
-
First of all thanks for the well wishes. The snake was a Black snake and not poisonous. I’ve had one drop from a palm tree once and it landed around my neck. It was quickly ripped in half. . Florida, we got snakes.
Certified, the S2 did not have an oil cooler stock. While I have the body off and plans for swapping out the original engine for a crossflow that I’m building with much more HP. Just a future modification.
BDA and JB , thanks for giving me a starting point for this system . The additional hp and an A/C , the car may need it.
My jobs for now are the foam around frame and pressurizing the brake lines. The holdup is that dang bearing...🤬 , I unpacked the rear window and new seal , tooling also arrived so it’s a go for that job.
At least one thing a day, then do one more. Lol.
Dakazman
-
Maybe you could catch the next black snake that falls from a tree to us in NC. We love them! They eat mice and other vermin but best of all, they eat copperheads!
-
A photo of my set up:
https://jbcollier.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-SjHwgt2/A
There's a screen on the outlet into the wheel well to keep the snakes out.
-
If your convinced you need an oil cooler, I might suggest the shortest possible route with oil lines which makes the radiator location the engine bay. We all know the issues of the lack of air circulation in this area, therefore it might be possible to mount two small electric puller fans on the oil cooler radiator to assist in drawing the proper amount of Airflow.
JB, your install looks well thought out and installed extremely well. But it’s an awful lot of tubing/piping and fittings to move the oil to the front of the car. That alone would get me to think differently (oh boy, I think most of you already know that about me 8))
-
Agreed. One of the issues with mid-engined vehicles is engine compartment heat. The Europa is particularly afflicted with this problem. One of the reasons for putting the oil cooler up front was to reduce the engine compartment heat load. The ultimate solution would be too graft on air scoops that force air into the engine compartment. Spoil the looks though. The 47's NACA ducts look great but actually don't move much air either.
My next project is fit an engine cool air intake that draws from below.
-
How about an oil to water heat exchanger? One of these maybe -
https://www.cantonracingproducts.com/categories/oil-cooling-heat-exchanging/water-to-oil-heat-exchangers.html
-
It's a good idea and has the bonus of faster warms in cooler climates. It does add more heat load to an already marginal rad though.
I wish there was a straight forward, easy solution but I haven't found one yet.
-
The first item should then be an oil temp gauge to get a little data of operating temps under different conditions. I will keep all this in mind.
There are two cavities not utilized much that can help exhaust hot air out of the engine compartment into the forward part of the rear wheel wells. With the help of some fans , one on each side between the outer skin and the engine compartment.
I’m also thinking about the best way to run the fuel line from the mechanical pump to the carb. I have seen directly over the distributor cap :blowup: and all the way around the front of engine. Any best practices are welcomed?
JB, snake screen...LOL I hate snakes and spiders.
Dakazman
-
Actually the main air flow into the engine compartment is through the forward part of the rear wheel wells.
-
Which is where I put the large capacity air filter for the Weber AIRBOX.
-
Actually the main air flow into the engine compartment is through the forward part of the rear wheel wells.
In understanding what your both sayin; Air enters the engine compartment from the void behind the ww , behind the wall of the gas tanks and into the compartment. If that is true then i made the close out panels for nothing and they should not be installed. My aft side of my rear ww are also sealed so that debris won’t get thrown in by tail lights.
Dakazman
-
Just to confuse you, pboedker worked out an interesting cool air setup for his TC that you might be able to adapt to your S2. It may not translate as well for a down draft carb but it might be interesting to consider. Here is the thread about it: http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=2658.0
Peter wrote up a nice paper on it. I couldn't find it quickly in the thread but I have a copy so I've attached it.
-
Yes, cool air flows in through the front of the rear wheel wells. Hot air exits out through the cover vents. The air then flows back and some (quite a bit) reenters through the open section in the back of S1/2 Europas. Hot air recirculation is a significant problem. Though the open section looks cool, it's a good idea to close it off as they did for the TC/S.
-
The original write ups by Peter and then Preen is what got me to modify my air intake for my Weber engine. I used a Weber AIRBOX I had left over from an Elan project and reversed the cover so I could install the air hose coming from the well area in front of the fuel tank. Worked perfectly and after 2000 miles of all kinds of driving the air filter still looks new.
-
That's excellent. I have my Dells hooked up to a standard TC/S set up and the filter gets dirty quickly and gets changed every 2K klicks or so.
-
JB thanks for that link, I spent at least an hour reading most of Dave’s other mods. 👍👍
I’ll see if my oil cooler will fit in that location. Blocking the aft screen is in my list also because my firewall will be in 5 removable panels, with seals to keep the exhaust gases out. Still another cover for looks and sound. (Carpeting)
Certified , I did see and read about the air box but failed to realize where you got the air from , thinking just the engine cover hole . All in time for now, my single Weber isn’t exactly race quality.
Dakazman
-
I’m also thinking about the best way to run the fuel line from the mechanical pump to the carb. I have seen directly over the distributor cap :blowup: and all the way around the front of engine. Any best practices are welcomed?
JB, snake screen...LOL I hate snakes and spiders.
Dakazman
The original arrangement is over the forward top of the valve cover, where there's a clip under the valve cover nut to hold it, and past the right side of the distributor. One of the few upgrades I've made to my car is braided steel fuel line but I'd still be nervous with it going over top of the distributor. On a crossflow, do the carbs go above the distributor instead of above the exhaust manifold?
-
I would do everything possible not to have a fuel line located over the distributor or anywhere near the exhaust. SS braided or not.
-
The distributor on a crossflow sits on top of the head well clear of the carbs.
When navigating from one part of the engine to another, I prefer to use solid lines with flexible sections for the connections. Much easier to control position and eliminate any rubbing.
-
That’s exactly what I’m concerned about. To further complicate the matter the fuel pump has a 1/4 “ outlet and the carb inlet looks to be 3/8” there is a filter also to fit. What I’m thinking about it a steel fuel line below distributor around the front of engine to carb inlet . I will have to go through the Pegasus catalogue about the SS lines.
Bob, now I understand why people install electric fuel pumps. They can be installed in a better location than stock one size fits all. The hemi the carbs and mechanical fuel pump are on the same side.
-
When I was about 16, I did a tuneup on my sister’s Renault 16. I changed the fuel filter. Of course, every good mechanic checks to see if it leaks by starting her up. The fuel filter was way down low. So, the car is idling. I get a flashlight, shine it on the filter and stick my head way down there. Yup, it’s leaking. And woomf! Smoking eyebrows and my sister’s car is running and on fire.
Luckily, I shut it off and put the fire out before too much damage occurs. Just some melted wires. However, I learned that a distributor is a good ignition source, and not just in the cylinder.
-
When I was in high school there was a auto junk yard 20 minutes from my house. It was filled with sports cars that had caught on fire and totaled. A buddy of mine and I would go there on a regular basis and buy British sports cars that only had engine bay damage and repair them. I learned early on that worn rubber fuel lines, plastic connectors and loose hose clamps cause a lot of damage. Ever since then I only use SS braided fuel lines and threaded connectors. AND I’m careful of any rub points from vibration.
I’ve been restoring sports cars for a long time. None have ever caught on fire.
-
That’s exactly what I’m concerned about. To further complicate the matter the fuel pump has a 1/4 “ outlet and the carb inlet looks to be 3/8” there is a filter also to fit. What I’m thinking about it a steel fuel line below distributor around the front of engine to carb inlet . I will have to go through the Pegasus catalogue about the SS lines.
Bob, now I understand why people install electric fuel pumps. They can be installed in a better location than stock one size fits all. The hemi the carbs and mechanical fuel pump are on the same side.
If I were still selling Earl's Supply I would love to set you up with the right stuff at a good price, but since I don't have any of that stuff anymore, along with Pegasus, you might want to look at http://performanceplumbing.com, https://pitstopusa.com/, https://www.summitracing.com/, and http://www.bakerprecision.com/. You might be able to save some money.
-
Thanks BDA,
Right now I’m having the time of my life on what I thought was a simple job... putting on fan belts.
So, at first glance I thought I had the wrong pulley for the water pump, then I thought I had the pullies on wrong, then I read the book, shims??? Aughh, so easy . Now I just have to jack it and adjust . I started out placing all the shins save 1 , the base for the outside, I’ll be adjusting for a bit longer. Nothing like a little 3rd pulley. But now I see adding lightness.
Dakazman
-
Unbolt the pulley. Put the fan belt on. Rebolt the pulley with the belt in place. That’s what I did on my car.
-
Renault R15, R16 and R17’s tension the belts with what I would describe as a variable pitch pulley. Thus the shims.
-
R16s have thew adjustable pulley. At least later R17s have an idler pulley.
-
If you have shims left over after you're happy with the tension, they can be stored under the nuts on the face of the pulley. That's where mine have always been. They're extra weight though ;D
-
Yes Bob, that’s where I found them,5 to be exact , I put all except one and tightened when turning the rear tire.
I few more need to come out. I took a break from it , the wife added a few other items to her list.
Thanks for the comment, it may help others in the future.
Another project was installing the wiper assembly . Turns out I’m missing the outer spacers, I believe they are chrome, if so I need to call the plating shop. I lost track of the items. Bumpers , interior lamp assembly and I think those spacers. I checked the old wheel boxes,... nothing.
Dakazman
-
After searching my parts bags I found my bag of chrome parts ,still wrapped by the shop.Whew 😅 Making progress slowly and getting familiar with other small jobs that need to get done.
Dakazman
-
Who did your chroming? It looks good.
-
Space Coast Plating & Metal Refinishing, Inc.
Melbourne, Florida .
They do really nice work. It’s expensive mainly because of the hazardous material charges.
I decided I’ll wait for my tail light assemblies to put a little more before plating for 150 each. That will also ruin the stop lamp inner lens.
Dakazman
-
I have seen their advertisement. I can tell you that crappy plating is also expensive.
-
Absolutely,
They do really nice work, see pics of my bumpers. One of My tail lights are slightly pitted so with only about 1/2” chrome showing it just doesn’t make sense for me to get those done. I see some jaguar and lotus assemblies for sale on eBay occasionally that are about the same price point.
The socket for the brake light are swedged thru the reflector and base. We need to source unswedged sockets or modify the assembly to properly get rechromed.
Dakazman
-
I was able to buy a left hand Federal light assembly that was NOS from Sports Car World in Dallas for around $150. For the right hand, I bought a euro model (About $250 and readily available) and modified it to accept the bulb assembly from my old Federal light. You would have to remove it to know.
My original lights were in rough shape, and I also could not see how they would chrome them.
-
Could you get away with applying a chrome effect paint instead of proper chrome plating? How hot can the reflector get with LED bulbs?
-
Usually it's an order of magnitude cheaper to simply replace small parts like the windshield wiper finisher rather than re-chrome them.
-
Usually it's an order of magnitude cheaper to simply replace small parts like the windshield wiper finisher rather than re-chrome them.
Completely agree!
-
They threw the finishers and the interior lamp in with the bumpers . R&D does not have both fittings for the wheelbox.
The tail lights are going back on for the time being. I go by good enough, better and better yet.
I used my old school xylene rub to hand polish and clean the lenses. I caution the use , it’s used with a q-tip and a micro fiber towel to buff out a drop immediately . You are melting the plastic to a high gloss with just hand rubbing.
Headlights converting to halogens H4 with a blue tint. I’m glad I didn’t install the chrome rings.
Still painting and sealing the new dash with a first coat of high gloss black trim. The crash pad was also stripped of the brittle covering. I should be able to coat with some thin veil glass and coat with some new vinyl.
-
I say, excellent work on the photo sizing, Dave! I think about 800 pixels wide max is great.
Vince
-
Could you get away with applying a chrome effect paint instead of proper chrome plating? How hot can the reflector get with LED bulbs?
Gideon, yes you could easily. The reverse lamp reflectors I nickel plated and polished, so I gave it a better grade since it now has no rust. You gave me an idea though. I’ve painted the chrome effect on wheels and it would greatly enhance the pitted assembly.
Thanks
Dakazman
There is one engine ire assembly on eBay right now but it not the correct side.
Getting ready to install the rear window since it is 86 f and the new rubber trim needed to be loosened up after being in the bag . I installed it in place and taped for now. Where do most people put the seam ??? Bottom center is where I placed it.
Dakazman
-
It spent some time looking for the seam on my rear window seal because it's so neatly done. It's top centre. The seam on the locking strip, which I should really replace, is on the bottom.
-
Thanks BobW for taking the time to inspect that seal. :trophy: I will certainly follow it.
My tail lights are tested , installed and off my desk. What fun I is to hold the assembly, with a new seal and guide the wires into two separate holes. I’m glad the body is still on the work platform and I wasn’t laying on the ground or on my knees. 😥 .
I got a little side tracked after seeing the engine compartment catch rusting a bit after I plated it.
So I found a old nickel plated door kick plate. It was bronze inside and I didn’t think I could bend it without cracking it. It bent nicely with a tight 1/8 radius. Then I formed the shape drilled the holes and polished it up. It looks like the brass fittings that were on my sailboat. Looks like gold!
While on a roll I decided to copy JBs dissecting the water pump by pressing out the impeller shaft. I had the shaft soaking in wd40 and some other rust penetrant for a few days. It is only a old pump and badly corroded. Oh well ,after carefully setting it up level I successfully removed the shaft , impeller rusty spring and a 2 piece seal. Thanks JB for all your guidance but I still would like the vendors / parts you used in your A/C mod.
Another quick question is what glue are we using to install the foam padding on frame ? Contact cement? Silicone?
Dakazman
-
Wiper assembly installed, nothing is easy , a little bit of primer and paint on the right side wheelhouse and it would not sit correctly. I added a gasket to the base of both wiper bezels mainly to keep water out.
Ran across another minor item I need to repair, two missing outboard dash mount inserts. Installed the original dash to mark where I need to add the anchors. I’m still sealing the dash without a radio that will be installed instead of this one. I will add this one to my desktop with a lamp coming out of it.
Dakazman
-
Looking good, D'man! Good that you put a gasket under wiper bezel. One belongs there. I couldn't tell from the pictures but there should be a tube that runs from each wheel box and from the near wheel box to the motor. The flexible rack runs through the tubes.
Keep it up!
-
Looking good, D'man! Good that you put a gasket under wiper bezel. One belongs there. I couldn't tell from the pictures but there should be a tube that runs from each wheel box and from the near wheel box to the motor. The flexible rack runs through the tubes.
BDA, the second and third picture show the gearing run shaft and tubes and orientation of the wheel box on shaft. I found it easier to install the wheel box and tighten assembly on the body then feed the shaft thru and then place the motor assembly into holder. Afterward feed the ,center, second tube onto shaft, wheel box and end tube and tighten in place. I tested in place and then tightened all the tubes so that the run wouldn’t be strained. The grease helps a lot also.
Dakazman
-
Exciting Dave. Your making real progress.
-
Water pump parts supplier
https://jbcollier.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-5qgswm4/A
They have the bearing assemblies as well. Measure to match. When reassembling always be very careful that no assembly load is through a the bearing!
-
Thanks JB , I downloaded their PDF Files and will research later. It’s funny how others are asking about your mod to the pulley system at the same time . Now I have another project for my machinist . Adding the bearing to carry the larger pulley. Having a hard time finding it on the site.
Thanks Certified and BDA . I need all the support I can get. I did just get in the rear window by myself. Yes I cheated and stood in the bare engine compartment with the cover removed. I don’t have the firewall panels in so that’s why it made it so easy. It took less than an hour but I forgot to buy the locking strip so I’m not done yet. 😀 I only posted a picture of this site on Instagram, hopefully it will add a few members.
Dakazman
-
You installed the rear window by yourself in less than a hour? No way...... It took 5 grown men almost 3 hours to install mine. And that was after I tried for hours to do it on my own.
I’m impressed Dave. Keep up the great work :beerchug:
-
I can’t imagine doing it alone with a firewall and a engine in place.
Certified what did you use to glue your foam onto the frame?
Thanks in advance .
Dakazman
Ps I found replacement sockets for the tail light assembly . You cut the old one out and install a billet aluminum socket for $26.00 at Ron Francis. Com
-
I used 3M spray adhesive. Dry mount. Spray both sides, let dry to tack and then fit.
-
Thanks Certified, I do have that stuff, I’ve used it on fabrics... who knew.
Dakazman
-
Do any of those have a dual belt system coming off the cam ? That would make it easier to add a a\c compressor. I would add an idler to that some of the load away from that bearing and the index pins.
Thoughts?
Dakazman
I need to start the assembling of the doors to keep the flow going. Completed the final coat of clear on dash and a helmet. They are shiny.😎
Dakazman
-
Things are moving along, D'man!
Where are you with your motor? I'm anxious for the big day when the frame is reacquainted with the body!
-
Thanks BDA,
I’m making a list in parts needed. Basically Starter, fuel lines, valve timing, misc carb choke plate screws, mine were stripped. Getting rid of the hideous heater lines and plumbing from a hardware
store that I had saved. Exhaust system I will mock up with 1 1/4 plastic pipe and h ad on down to a local Midas muffler shop. I was there a few weeks ago and they said they can bend it up in stainless with a muffler and tailpipe to match. So it’s a small job but the back screen needs to be put in place.
Fabricated a aluminum water tank but need to weld the tube connectors and cap in.
-Rear axle bearings, getting an opinion from the machinist, so that is a little trip.
-after I get the axle in then I’ll pressurize the brakes.
Then I’ll be ready to put the body on. Doors ?
I also decided I’ll just finish the shroud I was making for the tach/speedometer instead of making copies. Also making a list of original wires and connectors I need , it’s only been a years since I placed it on my board.
Carpet and seats
Front window
Done!
Dakazman
-
Now that you put it that way, you should be driving your car in a couple of weeks! :)
Good luck and continue your updates!
-
Put the doors on almost last. Doors are a two man job in order to adjust properly. Seats are last.
-
Yes I agree with that however I just want to assemble them now to clear off my parts shelves. It also helps to help me stop and understand and reevaluate the assemblies. Such as the newly finished dash.
No radio and shiny.🤪
-
It’s been arts and crafts week with a little wrench turning. Reconditioning the dash pad and knee pad.
The steel angle was mutilated near the side mount for some unknown reason by the PO’s sometime in its life. A new aluminum L Channel was fabricated for both dash assemblies, old and new with only the vinyl to wrap. The dash pad hard cracking vinyl coating removed carefully and installed he foam reglued to hold together and fill voids. Coating now with some 1/8”foam , sanding and smoothing the surface for the final vinyl coating.
Installed foam on frame completed . Used my super sharp kitchen knives to cut and found out later while experimenting that shaving are easily done with a high speed 80 grit sander.
Installed my gas pedal laying upside down with a dremmel to locate and drill out the repaired holes.
Installed the stainless steel pins after cleaning the bobbins, and making a adapter for my dent puller for future removal in the existing threaded hole in bottom of shaft , which also helps with the insertion process by spinning the shaft upward instead of pounding in.
Polished out my JPS helmet for the last time. 😁
Dakazman
-
Were you saying that your "bump strip" along the bottom of the dash has only 1/8" thick foam? Mine is about 3/4" square. Of course I have a TCS rather than an S2 so that might have been a change made for the TCs, but I thought I'd mention it.
Keep up the great work, D'man!
-
BDA, I’ll try! Lol
The 1/8” foam is going over the dash pad. A local expert said to fill the foam with body putty and just cover it with vinyl. Just dashes , a California company posted some recovering tips that I adopted. If I mess up , I’ll just buy one.
The knee pads are about 1/2”x 3/4 “ square. I also have a leather tooling kit coming to do the sewing.
Dave
-
Got ya! That should work pretty well. I had my crash pad covered in vinyl and, of course, it can only follow the contours so well. Adding some foam would probably help.
-
Do you have photos of the ends of the crash pad. I am up to the refitting and covering stage and am struggling with how that should look.
-
I had a local interior shop do mine. They admitted beforehand that they wouldn't be able to follow every curve (especially on the console cover) but I told them to do the best they can. I think it turned out pretty good.
-
Looks good BDA. I can only hope mine comes out half that good .
Gary , if you need more pics or measurements let me know.
I’m making the demister out of wood and broke out my CNC tools to make some bullnose for my kick pad ends in the center section.
Dakazman
-
Completed two sets of kick pads for the original dash and a set for new dash . The contact cement works best holding the vinyl to the aluminum as well as itself. The lock tite spray worked well but took 24 hours to dry. It did allow me to reposition the vinyl fabric after 8hours and was fully secure afterward.
I also shaved off about a pound going to aluminum L channel instead of the original steel channel.
Dakazman
-
Nice work on those dash pads. They look great!
-
Nice work, D'man! Good work with the weight savings!
-
Nice progress and custom work!
-
Thanks guys , they are more work than they look like To reproduce. Looking forward to mounting them up. Gaining confidence and my courage up to cover the door cards and center console. I haven’t sewn anything since my, wood, dope and fabric class building a wing cross section 40 years ago. 😂
I have a rug sample coming and a few yards of some black microfiber fabric but I haven’t decided where I will use it.
Dakazman
-
Both my black microfiber and a sample of black rug came in , I dirt tested, hair and sawdust and vacuumed . Cleaned up nicely, so I ordered 3 yards x 80 inches wide should be plenty.
The micro fiber on the roof and on the armrest.
It seemed like forever to install the dash pads on both dashes. . Drilling out the holes was time consuming even with the pilot holes. Placing all the attaching brackets and harness clap locations. I decided to go with the two piece pad on the new dash and will modify it later because the center console will be lowered, cutting out the entire ashtray area.
Dakazman
-
Nice work, D'man! I'm interested in how the microfiber looks when you're finished!
-
BDA, it fabric is lighter than a he vinyl so having it as a headliner might be a good choice. At 60” wide I purchased 2 yards which will be plenty for $31.00 . There are two ways I’m considering installing, first a glued onto a 1/8” foam pad and then using Velcro standoffs that are fiberglassed onto the ceiling . The second way is to hang on a steel rods which are formed into a holder on both sides and center giving a pleated look. Pulled tight and tucked into the front and window seals and door channels. A lot of cars were done this way and the way I’m leaning to.
Dakazman
-
I least enjoy my Europa when I'm backing up. The visibility to the back and rear-quarters is poor, making a guessing game out of reversing into a parking spot. Have you considered a back-up camera with separate screen?
-
I've heard at least one guy who has a backup camera with a separate screen. I have a radio that accepts a backup camera (it also has bluetooth audio and hands free answering). There are lots of them that support this.
-
I use a GPS with a back-up camera. Works very well. I back up with confidence.
John
-
I can’t wait to buy some fun stuff, guys! 😀. I still need to buy some 31mm inner hub bear
My machinist gave me a call today and announced my ZZ4 block is ready for pickup, I’ll be balancing my jobs to clear a path to my stationary ceiling hoist. Removing my crossflow off the engine stand so I can build up the block. It’s going to be nice to get my first baby back on the road after 8 months.
Dakazman
-
I least enjoy my Europa when I'm backing up. The visibility to the back and rear-quarters is poor, making a guessing game out of reversing into a parking spot. Have you considered a back-up camera with separate screen?
I made a bracket for my iPhone that goes where the radio should be. The iPhone connects to a tiny bluetooth backup camera under the rear license plate. The only downside is it takes a few seconds fumbling with the phone to get the back-up screen to come up.
And yes, the white cable is unsightly. I have since fixed the cigarette lighter/power outlet that is located where my expensive ashtray should be. Missing ashtray surely cuts the value of my car in half.
Tom
-
That's really cleanly done, Surf! (I forgive you for the wire! :) ) Your dash looks great!
-
Your dash is perfection,Tom. I read about the lag but by the time I get around to it they will probably have it fixed. It is a must get and I heard they are coming out with side view cameras also.
Picked up my motor from my he machinist and did what I set out to do. Get it on the stand. 😀
Yes it’s a harbor freight 3 wheel unit rated at 1000 lb capacity.?
Now to run taps down every threaded hole to clean. 🤪
Dakazman
-
I'm guessing that isn't the motor that's going into your Europa! :P
-
More arts and crafts and some parts polishing 😂. I tried something new on an old fan housing, what do you think? Polished or painted?
Started a mold x2 in case I mess up, for the demister grills. Talking about grilles, I installed the front assembly, took me forever to find hardware , drill all new holes and then finally mount. It’s been a hectic month with plenty of unexpected jobs cropping up. Helping neighbors and daughters is what I do.
BDA, sorry no😀. Maybe the next build. Crank, pistons and cam and roller lifters installed.
Dakazman
-
Dug some items out of some storage bags and found a NLA part, yes a heater shut off valve. I love the , “MADE IN ENGLAND” and on/off engraving. So I tested it and I had no flow thru valve. Ready to open the swedged edges but before that I dropped a few drops of muratic acid into it and let soak. I returned about an hour later and pressurized it . Wow the rust particles that came out were substantial.
I now have a fully operational heater valve. Now to figure out what this other items are for? :confused:
Another setback was I finally noticed the difference between a Weber and a solex carb after seeing a picture of the heater shut off valve and coolant lines.? Do I have my carb on backwards? So I went back and pulled the Weber carb off , no... primary towards th barrow end and the secondary/ larger.
Okay back to to manual. I see said the novice. The solex carb has the inlet fuel line facing aft. See pic.
Weber DGV faces forward.
I’m just a novice and just want to pass some of these gottcha’s out there.
-
The plumbing type shut-off valve is because those heater valves are infamous for not shutting completely off. Lots of glass area so it takes very little hot water sneaking through to make the cabin very uncomfortable.
-
I’ll pressure test it again , flow from the hose spigot was completely shut off . After cleaning it I can see why , especially with the original steel cooling transfer lines.
I installed the carb again and mocked up a flex copper line that I’ll use for the steel lines. If anyone has some pic of a installed Weber Carb on a wedge motor will help . I purchased the car with all these items in boxes but this is all I have. Choke and throttle still a blur but it may have something to do with this swiveling bracket on the valve cover.
Dakazman
-
My carb (Weber) is currently in a Tupper Ware in my shop (warm) not on the car in the garage (-5°c)but there is a quadrant mounted on the rocker cover that the throttle cable goes to and a push rod from the quadrant to the throttle arm on the carb.
Do you want pictures?
-
I think it is not wise to lead fuel lines over a long distance over a (hot) engine.
This will make it vunarable to "vapour lock" so when the engine gets warm, it will make the fuel evaporate in the line, causing shut down the engine.
Keep fuel lines away from the engine, if possible.
Making them of copper is asking for problems even more.
-
Hi Gary, I need pictures of your engine when everything was hooked up. Don’t unpack and stay out of the cold. That quadrant is in the picture but it’s black and hard to see. Thanks for your offer it’s much appreciated. I’m glad I’m doing all this with the body off and engine accessible.
Bert, I will keep it away from block and wrap it. I’m using the attach points that are there all ready but will use stand-off so not to chafe. The copper line is only for a bending template. Copper will not be used.
Dakazman
-
The plumbing type shut-off valve is because those heater valves are infamous for not shutting completely off. Lots of glass area so it takes very little hot water sneaking through to make the cabin very uncomfortable.
Yes they are but, for some reason, I've never had a problem closing the valve completely. So there's hope. It helps to adjust the clamp on the cable end so the valve is in the fully closed position with its control slide fully closed in the console. My controls slide has a resistance point about a quarter inch before it goes fully rearward. In mid summer my heater core feels the same temperature as everything else inside.
-
I have a few more odds and ends to identify . Pic 1 anybody?
I said WTH and tried to install the doors, but after an hour,,by myself hung a door. I need a backflip emoji here.🧜🏻And for a guy with a disability, started on the other side . True some small adjustments will have to be made. The R&D stainless worked flawlessly. 👍👍 I even removed the pin and slightly adjusted.
Dakazman
-
I’m super impressed you installed a door by yourself! More than impressed as I think back on the two days it took me to install both doors with another person helping. Your the man Dakazman :beerchug:
-
Oh I forgot to post the most important pic that you taught me...
Safety straps.😁
Dakazman
-
Wish someone had taught me that......but I’m glad you learned from my mistake.
-
I have a few more odds and ends to identify . Pic 1 anybody?
I'm pretty sure the top part is a spring ;D
-
I think Silver is right. I think that top part is indeed a spring! ;D
-
Okay :FUNNY:
That is the return spring.
I also managed to install a new hi torque starter from R&D. I need to run to the store and buy some parts but I’m doing the social distancing precautions.
A new rear inner bearing stopped about a 1/4” short on shaft. So I may push it on the rest of the way with the nut and a pipe extension. I know JB cautioned against this but I have almost no alternatives.
Hanging a empty shell of a door is probably why it went so easy. I’ll explain the details later. An extension on the hinge pin helped set, remove and twist pin in place. Next I’ll be installing all the door items while on my workbench.
Dakazman
-
Too many loose threads so I’m not sure what you are referring to with regard to “rear inner bearing”. Rear wheel bearings? You can pull or push them into place. Just don’t hit them. The inner bearing abuts against the inner spacer which is against the outer bearing.
-
Yes I’ll clean up that statement tomorrow , but it pertains to the inner hub carrier 31mm bearing .
I froze the haft shaft and heated the bearing it went almost down to the stop . I did not hammer on it .
I may have to remove the universal and press it in place which I should have done from the start.
Dakazman
-
You should be able to tap it home using a suitable diameter of pipe, or carefully with a punch, against the inner race.
-
I have a few more odds and ends to identify . Pic 1 anybody?
The bolts are the lower gearbox to engine ones.
The thing with the hole in the middle goes onto the clutch or handbrake cable.
The pins could be the ones for securing the handbrake cable to the small arms in the drum.
The other parts do not look familiar to me, so they are probably S2 specific or gearbox related.
The bracket maybe the attachment for the clutch cable?
-
Thanks Rainer, I’m going thru the parts manual to pin point the ones to identified.
JB, I had my doubts that I could get the bearing to move but after sitting for a few days frustrating me I picked up a brass rod and gently tapped the inner race , 😃 it moved slowly down to a sound stop
I will have a 4 wheeler tomorrow. A true roller after I set the axle shaft shims and the strut spacers.
Add the e-brakes and pressurize lines . Then set valves. Etc etc...😁 and... rejoin the body to frame.
Dakazman
-
The spring looks like the Solex throttle return spring
.
-
It looks like the PO just dumped all his old parts into some coffee cans a put them in the car . I just need to do some shopping around to finish the linkage up.
Passenger door has no today faster than the other side . Then came all my BA’s to offer some advice.
Lol tomorrow’s another day , time to run and play.
Dakazman
-
Looks like more grandchildren are on the way. Time to sell the Europa and get a four seater?
;-)
-
Good work on the doors and continued good luck picking parts out of your coffee cans!
Looks like you have several BAs and may a new one on the way!
-
Talking of four seaters, for some reason I can see Dave with his grandchildren in this one. Maybe it's the color
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1975-Lotus-Other/193388063498
I felt tempted for a whole morning, but it's ok, I got over it. Something about the shape of these always reminded me of the Pink Panther car. This one looks good enough that it might be worth real money one day :D
https://youtu.be/--QVDtpJ2Tw
-
D'man, it is the right color! :)
I liked the Elite when they came out. I never drove one but I sat in the back of one and was surprised how comfortable it was for a 6' 2" guy like me! You can fit full grown grandkids back there!
-
I’m betting on 321 ... since were on the space coast. Also tomorrow is 3/21😂
Wife has a huge hi top van complete with games / dvds / bed . I can’t wait to pass them that ride.
Dakazman
-
I have a roller! 4 wheels on and no jack underneath vehicle for the first time in 25 years!
I just need to set the shims on the gearbox.
The funny part was that after installing the wheel I pushed myself up off the ground and I thought I broke something.... the dampeners actually move . 👍😁😁
Dakazman
-
Look at that think sitting on the ground all by itself!!! Woo Hoo!!! :beerchug:
If you're not careful, that might turn into a car! :)
-
Brake line test
Gearbox shims
I could work on a few more engine items but body can go on soon . My cooling tubes I purchased from eBay from GPlus are not correct so I am in talks with their incompetent staff . 🤯
I have plenty to do with the doors / interior/ harness etc . I also see two or three drops of gearbox oil leaking from the half shaft seals. 🤬 that can wait until after a engine run. The engine then will come out and I’ll install the crossflow I’m building.
Dakazman
-
Wa Hoo Dave! Fantastic progress. You’ll be moving quickly now :beerchug:
-
Thanks Certified,
So many directions I can go, so I made a list for that concentrates on a body on . Then wire up and get the engine run. After that and in the interim some interior work. No one sells an exhaust pipe and muffler/ tailpipe for a wedge so that’s another setback.
I decided on a black interior🤷
Dakazman
-
D'man... If you're not adding an A/C you might want to remember that you live in Florida. You do know it gets hot down there, don't you? A black on black car is not the (temperature wise) coolest combination...
It's your car so I'm not about to tell you what to do with it, but it's just a thought...
-
I agree 100 % BDA, I will add AC in the future. I just want to get it road worthy first and have a little fun with it.
I can’t believe It’s all ready 90 here and I need to paint a few things before hurricane season,( the dreaded honey-do list appeared.🤬🤪.)
Maintain your distance,
Stay safe
Dakazman
-
Great work D’man! The secret to the honey do list is a stainless steel fridge. The magnet doesn’t stick so the list falls off and slides under the fridge.
-
Thanks Certified,
So many directions I can go, so I made a list for that concentrates on a body on . Then wire up and get the engine run. After that and in the interim some interior work. No one sells an exhaust pipe and muffler/ tailpipe for a wedge so that’s another setback.
I decided on a black interior🤷
Dakazman
There must be someone in the UK that makes a header, muffler set for that engine in a Europa. You might get a wild header design that eliminates the storage box in the rear, but you might want to investigate.
-
Ray at R&D said there is a downpipe in stainless but 345.00 is my unobtaininum😂 Headers will go on the crossflow soon to come .
I have a 1 1/4 plastic pipe mapping the path and I’ll bring it to a muffler shop to copy .
I now have a Grandson ! Levi born was his morn at 3:50 am est . 8lbs 5 oz. 🥳🥳🥳
Dakazman
-
:happy-bday: to your Grandson. Congratulations to you (and the parents of course)
-
RD lists exhausts for the wedge engine: complete stock as well as headers.
-
:happy-bday: Levi!! Best wishes to the new parents and grandparents!
-
JB , Hmmm , I check back but I believe he said no mufflers / silencers at all. TC and Renault crossflow headers , yes . wedge - No tailpipe either.
Dakazman
Thanks guys , Mom and father doing fine . I’m waiting for them to post the first pics . 😃😁
Dakazman
-
:happy-bday: Congrats on the grandson D'man!
-
Do check back as they are on his site.
John
-
Failing that, check:
https://www.lotus-supplies.com
They supply everyone anyway.
https://www.lotus-supplies.com/part-category/exhaust/renault/
-
Congrats on the grandson, and on the roller.
:happy-bday:
-
Thanks again JB that’s going to make life easier. Next time I’m shopping I’m going to lock myself in a room away from interruptions. That stainless one is what I call unobtainum.
My next plan Was to walk through a a local salvage yard and I’ll find something for 100$
I have 12$ into my his pipe , see pic lol. Yeah am frugal.🤣
Dakazman
-
It’s has been a frustrating week for trying to accomplish what should be simple task. Assembling doors and adjustment of the e-brake and grommets around the radiator transfer tubes. I am loosing the battle and need a break from working in the tunnel area and doors. See pic 1.🥴
It looks like I need some transaxle seals that I purchased but now need to install. Pic 2 . Then I got some inspiration by a really loud launch of a ULA rocket in a bright blue sky. 😀pic3 . Tomorrow is another day for bleeding brakes , hopefully not my blood, lol.
Dakazman
-
It doesn't seem right that your car should bite you while you're bringing her back to life!
Remembering the name of a famous rally, Press On Regardless!
-
Take the pipe and manifold to an old-time exhaust shop. The will be able to form the correct flare on the end to match the manifold.
-
I remember all to well the mangled hands and fiberglass itch I had for months while I was reassembling my car. Don’t worry Dave, it will all be worth it!
-
BDA, I agree. It gives you all these tiny nicks and scraps. That little battery bracket got me twice.
The horseshoe shaped e-brake cable bracket /run was designed by a satist .
JB, I still haven’t called R&D back yet. The pipe in that picture was to short to reach the manifold, so that’s going back to the store, once they open for business 😕. I worked at my friends Minekie muffler shop and made a few myself and used the bender that had build cards to follow for different vehicles.
Sadly he sold the shop.
Glenn, I’m pressing on , came to far to quit now. I have plenty of fun jobs to do , the one in particular is putting in the locking seal in the back window. I got a little familiar with the tool , read and reread your thread . Still I pause on what direction push/pull and how to thread the seal in tool as it spreads the seal gap. Starting at bottom and going clockwise seems more comfortable.
To all , Let me introduce my Grandson, Levi David Springer.
Dave
-
Congratulations to you both!
-
Levi is a good reason for smiles all around! Congratulations to mom!
-
;D
-
Thanks guys , mom and dad doing well and granny waiting now patiently to see him again. I see a big tool belt in his future and maybe some doctor’s equipment. Cars , I’ve got a that covered or him 😂
Dakazman
-
Not slacking today , I changed it up and installed the rear window locking strip. 3-4 man hours by myself. I learned a lot but could not find a easy way to pass on other than install it without a firewall or engine installed. The good news is that it’s done. I did leave a little extra to trim after shrinkage.
Dakazman
-
Wow Dave, I cant believe you were able to install the rear window on your own! Amazing! I was just getting caught up on your posts and ready to provide some insights and BAM.....your done. Did you wrap the rubber molding twice with string?
-
I actually removed the window seal that I installed last week because it did not come with a locking strip. I ordered one from R&D complete with the strip . It is the only way they sell them, and they are unique. As I removed the old seal I immediately pressed in the new seal only with the plastic stick. It went off without a hitch and I finished in about 1/2 hour. Then I went to install the locking strip with the tools I purchased off eBay. It didn’t go well but I got aquatinted with the tools. This is one thing I suggest anyone do before replacing the seal and definitely with the locking strip.
Dakazman
-
You are the man, D'man! :beerchug:
Most people wrestle (usually with friends) for hours to get their rear window in. Congratulations!
-
So another day of tunnel work and I finally got the e-brake to work 🤪 twice 🤬 one side jamming in sleeve . I removed the assembly, R&D here I come...👍
BDA, here are my tips , pix 1 tool 1 , slow, while slowly rocking up and down and pulling backwards while pushing seal at tip down action 👎also pulls to much.
Pic 2 my favorite pic 2 &3 while in the grove with the locking strip on top of tool if moving across , making a small c movement while pressing in the seal and pulling back. This works best in the two rounded sections.
For the straight sections this is a piece of cake . First look at you seal locking channel if it ajar window is in straight. If seal looks like a small line , glass needs to be pushed out slightly.
The easiest method with soap solution or leak detector fluid , push in the locking strip into the open channel strait in push in the angle that was a most difficult ( top / top bottom of window / bottom) do a run of four fingers. Then using the pic 2 tool and placing the tip just inside the window seal lip push in and drag the tool to meet the inserted side.
Last 2 pics are the plastic insertion tool I used to get the window seal seated with plenty of soap solution and also walking in the corners.
That’s all I got!
Dakazman
-
You put the locking strip in before you installed the window?
-
Nice tutorial, D'man! I hope I'll never need it! ;D
A buddy of mine and I did mine probably forty years ago. We didn't have a real process. We just wrestled with it for a couple of hours till it finally it in. I remembered thinking several times that it was impossible.
-
Certified, No 🥴
I’m showing tooling and an example seal and strip. You should experiment off the car first. If you have a bad seal in an installed window DO NOT REMOVE THE WINDOW! You can easily order your matched set, remove the locking strip starting from where your window seal terminates ( top center) but only a little at a time. As you pull out the old seal you can start pushing in the new seal only .
This method will hold the window in place without pushing out completely and holding it centered.
I started the window seal on TDC,working counter clockwise. locking strip BDC. Counter clockwise.
Dakazman
-
While waiting for an e brake cable I decided to start assembling the doors and window trim. It looked pretty simple sitting on my storage shelf’s. The lock mechanism must be installed early, so I cleaned and polished the lock assembly and the rods and anything that I thought might look and work better. I checked the template on the door lock cutouts and found it was to large. Made a template from transparent paper of the lock . Turned out a perfect fit with small adjustment. It can be copied because I placed a 1” scale on it, so print out and adjust as necessary.
. Handles first, door lock second. Side view mirrors , yep. Then I trimmed the door to accept the forward and aft window trim . I wish I smoothed out some of the glass repairs before painting and remove the old rivet bodies. I got all the trim in both doors ready to accept new seals , fuzzys and glass. I’ll report back later .
The mod for the window travel will be also on the to-do list.
Dakazman
-
Just moving forward, slowly ... with my E brake arriving I thought I could get it installed but neighbors have a different idea. So that’s just finished cutting out my lock assemblies.
I just noticed all the black mirrors ... 😂
Dakazman
-
Still working on the doors and sub assemblies. Progress is slowly showing. Planning my assembly approach and gathering a few more pieces and some sealants .
I will post the seal angle cutting how to if wanted.
The love this car!
Dakazman
-
Great stuff, D'man! You did those corners A LOT better than I could!
-
With the sealant afterward the seams will look seamless. I just extended the seam line of the aluminum trim onto rubber strip. The second or third cut mated the two better but it’s on a angle and not flat to the seal.
I drilled out all the rivet holes, placed all the trim in door channel. New fuzzies and window guide seals. I installed it and see why some have a problem installing the channel with window installed.
It needs to be installed but lower in the channel until the rivets are set , then pulled up.
Attack plan ... locks and handle pulls installed. Window trim assembly with window installed in track.
Quarter window, power window motor assemblies.
However I still need to adjust the sag in the doors, hang slightly low toward the lock assemblies but I need a good helper. My BA is also needed for bleeding my rear brakes, the front work great as far as leaks go. Driving and stopping power check later.
Stay safe everyone
Dakazman
-
I don't want to get between you and your BA, but there are all sorts of brake bleeders that allow you to bleed your brakes by yourself. :)
-
Thanks BDA,
I do have that tool... now to find it . I probably put it somewhere safe 🙃
Dakazman
-
I had forgotten about them but check out the thread on the speed bleeders in the Garage forum. I think starting with them is a good idea.
-
I found my self bleeding canister and tubing. Small miracle, it was with my dwell meter and vacuum gauges and carb flow meter. 😃
Since I’m on lock down and my corvette motor parts are on delivery hold by GM , so is that job , 1 crankshaft main bearing pair. I found a deep gouge in it probably from that last machinist I told you all about.
I tinkered a bit and carved out a mock defrost vent cover, since I couldn’t let some old Rtv go to waste, I’ll make a pour a mold on it.🤪 I know I can buy them but I’m adding it to a collection of molds that I haven’t cast yet.
Then I was back to my he seat trays , since they may hold thing up are now a priority to get sent out.
Dakazman
-
The first seat I welded in place after fabricating a new bottom section. Not to good but functional.
Second seat riveted In place much better. Probably saving time for the next repair due to flooding.😂
I just need to weld in the new nut to bolt it down.
Staying safe, 😀
Dakazman
-
I don't know, they look good to me! :beerchug:
-
Lol that’s the riveted one. The one I welded I chased burning thru the rust pockets even after cleaning the surfaces. It was like welding a soda can, only worse. I ll post pictures tomorrow under what not to do.
Trust me, I spent more time cleaning, blasting, prepping, painting etc ... I could have cut and riveted two new seat trays all ready. Now That I’m done and ready for upholstery.
-
Dave, riveted one looks good. I have heard welding rust is a losing game. As I am planning to redo my seats in the future, I am look forward to your upholstery adventure.
Sandy
-
Thanks Sandy,
Here is the tac and weld way done with oxy/acel . So I didn’t do myself any favors this way if I trust out again. That’s why I left one side just tacked in place.
Dakazman
-
I was going to use this as the mold but decided to use it . I can always come back .
Instrument binacle painted with gold, the entire console will be the same . A little JPS thrown in a little later.
Dakazman
-
Nice piece!
-
Thanks BDA,
I’ll try to have a pic up today with the instruments installed and in the dash.
On another entirely different subject but one that was discussed on groups was the bonnet bolts.
So I gathered up some scraps and designed this simple pull cable to release both sides of the bonnet at a the same time and one person install.
The assembly still need a rubber hose tube to protect the cable and a little easier to pull. Rivets for the L channels and glassing in the u channel to underside of bonnet on both sides.
One other piece is a return spring, I only had one laying around. Then adding lightness.
Feel free to comment!🤣
Dakazman
-
I would wait and see if you need it. I only have the two bolts for the hinge. I never use the prop rod. I open the bonnet and let it rest tilting forward. If it is windy, I have a problem but it's pretty rare that it's open long enough or often enough to matter. Gas struts for the boot are a must! They were one of the best things I've put on my car!
-
Another holdup done except for screwing it in place. As promised!🍻
Dakazman
-
Looks great, D'man! Too bad your last picture went upside down! :)
-
Wow Dave, that looks fantastic. How can us mere mortals keep up?
-
BDA, That was strange ! Flipped it over and it was upside down again , flipped it again, all good.
On a IPhone it flipped , on a computer it’s wacky.
Sandy , your doing just fine! I have been on lockdown for 3 years. :FUNNY: after my surgery, I’m just finishing items I started 8 months ago. With that note I won’t tell you how far behind I am on the harness. 🥴🤷
Dakazman
-
Dash looks great D-man! I also like the bonnet pins idea. I don't think I could get my spare tire out of the frunk with the hood/bonnet in place. These would help a lot.
I see you are fabing the spring-pin brackets out of aluminum. Yesterday I tried low temp aluminum brazing rods for the first time on a boat project. Amazing stuff! Your spring-brackets would be a perfect application. You are probably a master aluminum welder, I am not, so I'm a little giddy about the possibilities.
Tom
-
That binnacle looks great, D'man, particularly when it's seen installed in the dash.
I'd never have though to do something like that.
I have a serious disability when it comes to visualising artistry dependent stuff.
-
Thanks guys , Tom , I have tried those brazing rods on lawn furniture with good results. I have never welded aluminum or stainless . Maybe one day. For a first attempt the rivets can be drilled out if needed to be removed for some reason on the car. I thought about that and as a second thought the L bracket should have been secured to the side on the U Channel.
Gavin , Welcome back! Your artistry is in engines and all round knowledge. You can see things there that I can’t see when directed. I for one appreciate the help you give as well as others.
Dakazman
-
This was frustrating🤬
Why is this lever on this lock mechanism? What is a it’s purpose?
I had to take the door off to get it to open again.
Dakazman
-
It's a child lock.
Works with grown ups too . . . . apparently. ;D
-
How do you get to it when the door is shut?
Dakazman
-
You should be able to open the door from the outside whether the child lock is engaged or not.
-
You should not get to it when the door is shut. You put your child in the seat, push the lock and close the door from the outside. Then get in the car yourself. You can only open the door from the outside.
-
Got it , it needed a little more, CRC power lube to the outer release . See pic . I only cleaned it in the child off position and not set in shut . Once set , child on , and door shut it sets a spring release.
I also was just pulling on the inner side release and rods weren’t installed.
Thanks All😃
-
Apologies, D'man . . I was a bit short. :-[
Glad you got it sorted.
-
No problem Gavin,
I laughed! It’s was true
Dakazman
-
I love the gold gauge binnacle. That is going to look very sharp in the black car. Are you going to use the Gold as accents else where?
Cheers,
Ross
-
Thanks Rosco , Very possible, the center console bc it’s all glass and no ashtray . I may do some stripes, and a front air dam later. That’s when I put my daughters to work the photoshop in schemes.
I repaired a lock assembly child lock tab that was wallowed out with some aluminum tape, rosin core solder and some additional flux . I filed the inner hole to clean out and place a chamfered edge on both sides. Placed a piece of aluminum tape on the underside of tab dabbed some flux and filled hole with solder. Drilled to size and now I have a latch the the rod doesn’t fall out of.
My Zz4 motor is almost fully assembled and sitting on a harbor freight stand . Testing those limits of 1000 lbs. no it’s not polished, painted black and aluminum. Running a modified cam , comp cam CL08-500 ,With roller tappets .
-
Two steps forward, one step back. I managed to adjust a door perfectly by myself , on and off only 3 times. However, the outside door tab on latch assembly is wallowed out and the new stay fell out. I’ll solder it up and re-drill was he hole as before. I’m glad I caught it now and not after the window trim was installed. Left side door final tomorrow. Then the window frames that have been drilled up and ready to go . THe new felt also installed.
My removable firewall panels Installed but need a layer of carbon fiber film then I’ll apply a 1/2 in rubberized to the Both side panels, then another 1/2 “ over entire wall. Then layer 3 the carpeting.
Dakazman
-
That's a generous firewall door! Nicely done, too!
You'll have to teach us how to adjust doors by yourself! Good on you, D'man!
-
Looking good, D'man.
It appears your side panels are going to be fitted flush with the fibreglass near the tunnel - is that right?
My intention is to do the same because it'll provide ~ 1/2 inch more cabin length for my 6' 2" frame.
That also means the upper panel should be moved rearward by the same ~ 1/2 inch in order to maintain the matching shape/angle of the seat back.
I've yet to determine if this creates an issue at the top of the upper panel where it's glassed into the body.
I've also read that it's best to install the panels with the body on the chassis to make sure the body is in it's final rest position. Apparently it's possible to end up with the body being wonky otherwise. I don't know the truth of that but it sounded plausible.
-
Looks good D man,
Will your side panels be removable for tank acces, or are you keeping the hole in the bottom?
As I am 6'3" (and size 12) I made my firewall frame just a little more back, and make the panels flush with the frame.
Also in the engine room I will close the sides where the tanks are and insulate there, and probably not behind the seats.
I glassed my frame in without the body on the chassis, but I do not expect trouble with that.
But reinforcing the A pilars and roof I will definedly do with the windshield in place!
-
Hi guys,
I thought about that also being 5-11 and this is the best I could do. I put a seat back in and took a picture of the old mount holes with seat at firewall. Almost 3” but will have to install the tracks to get a answer on how much extra legroom I’ll get.
Bert, nice job on the framework it will definitely need to be glassed in to prevent water getting to it.
My framework is all fiberglass and removable, no more hole in the bottom of car.
Gavin , yes it’s flush. There are only 2 screws holding each panel in . It’s sitting flat . The panels will not be tightened down until on frame.
BDA, without window frame and motor assembly door is light. With the stainless R&D hinge kit I set both base assemblies without the locking nut. You only need one to get to the desired point. Set the food in with the lower washers, I used 3 . Place door in jamb and install rod. It’s easy to loosen on nut and move and shim door, then tighten one nut as much as possible. Pull rod out and tighten a little more without moving the center. Rehang door . Check which direction you want to move in necessary. One at a time. When happy pull rod and add the locking nut . I also have a quick release in place of the cotter pin . Another tip , with the R&D rod I added a 4” bolt in the bottom of rod to tap in and pull out rod.
-
I do not think that water gets in my frame because it all welded.
I made the frame of a chromed clothing rack, and whe re its welded, I zink primered before paint.
But it will be fiberglassed in for strenght, and just in case water would get in.
I also got to my door hinges, and I decided to make poly bushings in the body, to eliminate wear of the bobbins.
Then it will be no problem when the hinges get stuck in the doors, its even better, because I want them to use the poly bushings.
I started a topic of the restauration of 1084 R so I will post pics there.
-
Productive day today by completing the hanging and adjusting the door functions . 😃 I have a few other tips and when I pull the pin out for the last time I will scribe in where pin cross hatch center line is. My other tip for people who have the S/S mod . Do not use the sandpaper washer until you locate the CL . Another tip ,I did not use This but when tightening the 2nd lock nut use a large washer between the two, so that your Bonney wrench doesn’t nut turn the stop nut.
Installed all my nutplates in fiberglass rails to secure panels. Another plus was that my new harbor freight pop rivet / rivnut gun worked perfectly but need a little mod to get to not small channels. I used another guns tip which was smaller and loose in the tip . I just put a washer under tip between the head and away we go.
-
What's a "Bonney wrench" D'man?
Is it a Scottish spanner?
-
I know there is a joke in there somewhere but it’s the manufactures name.😂
Firewall secured, now I can take it down again so it can mount the fuel tank only to remove that assembly also.
Finished building my zz4 crate motor and will try to install it back in the vette tomorrow 😀. Then I can pull my 821 motor and gearbox and place the motor on the stand while I figure out why it’s not rotating. While it’s out I’ll replace the seals that were leaking badly. So another one step forward, yep steps back.
Dakazman
-
Thanks, D'man.
It was only half a joke. :))
I thought "Bonney wrench" might be some sort of colloquialism . . sort of like 'multi-grips' and 'water pump' pliers.
-
Gavin, Good thing their name wasn’t Bonny 😀... anyway, from Front of seat How far is your front bolt, with seat all the way back?
Dakazman
-
Another tip ,I did not use This but when tightening the 2nd lock nut use a large washer between the two, so that your Bonney wrench doesn’t nut turn the stop nut.
I prefer a crowsfoot wrench for the door hinge nuts. It is easier to turn inside the door.
-
Bob, I would agree with you in that choice however I had a 1” next size 11/4. 😡.
Dakazman
-
. . anyway, from Front of seat How far is your front bolt, with seat all the way back?
Hi D'man,
I'm not clear what you're asking.
Here's a rough sketch of my cabin with the locations of the stock front and rear bolt holes (red) in the floor.
My seats aren't installed but they can be moved all the way back to the firewall.
I can't remember if the front of the seat track is visible with the seat in the fully rearward position, though.
That help?
-
Looking good, D'man.
It appears your side panels are going to be fitted flush with the fibreglass near the tunnel - is that right?
My intention is to do the same because it'll provide ~ 1/2 inch more cabin length for my 6' 2" frame.
I was trying to answer this question, the front leg Bolt hole of the seat should be forward of the seat frame . I have approximately 3 1/2 “ from the front of seat tray to my forward hole. I don’t have the tracks on seat so I can’t tell if I gained any legroom. I’ll check your dimensions and compare it to my seat track holes , they should be similar.
Dakazman
-
Hi D'man,
I can't remember if the front of the seat track is visible with the seat in the fully rearward position, though.
The front of my (original) driver's seat cushion is almost right above the front bolt in the seat track with the seat fully rearwards. The seat back is just a couple of mm off the carpet on the firewall.
D'man my only crowsfoot set is metric. I don't remember what size fits.
-
Bob that definitely will give you the most legroom. You can’t bolt the seat down if racks were further back. With that said, yours and mine have been moved Back approximately 2 1/2 “ . I have no repairs to the seat track body area, hence my conclusion that I gained legroom.
The crowfoot doesn’t work better but with door off outer flange is easily tightened . Adding a washer between the two nuts inside door assures you are just tightening the jam nut.
I found my larger crow feet wrenches ...finally.
-
Chevy motor in . Renault motor out . Now to split the bell housing and find out why I can’t turn engine with the gearbox/wheels. The gearbox need to come out anyway due to the shaft seals leaking. Dakazman
-
Split the engine/ bell housing. Nothing rubbing on housing. Engine turns freely with a screwdriver on flywheel. Tomorrow I’ll install starter again and spin engine with.
I noticed I did not document the engine will not turn when in gear . Now I’m thinking it’s something to do with the primary shaft and it pulling as I reported way back.
Dakazman
-
I had some time to try to isolate the problem of the gearbox not turning. I pulled the engine and gearbox out. I then installed the flywheel and clutch assembly to my crossflow engine, just crank and pistons installed. Connected up the gearbox. Placed in gear, pinned one side of the differential and tried to turn the other side shaft. I still can not get any rotation.
Am I going about it incorrectly or is it time to split the gearbox?
i just tried to turn the gearbox with the flywheel , while in gear, i turned the flywheel and the haft shafts don't rotate :help:
third modification<--- gearbox by itseft i turn the primary shaft and lock one side up and the other side works normally in all gears. it may just have been that turning with the flywheel one tooth at a time is not enought to see any movement.
duh...i should just turn the crank :headbanger:
dakazman
-
G'day Dave,
Is the gearbox in neutral?
Disconnect the gearbox from the engine.
Attempt to turn the input shaft while it's in gear - what happens?
Attempt to turn an output shaft while it's in gear - what happens?
EDIT:
Great minds think alike. :beerchug:
-
Gavin, let me just say this, i now know that the gearbox is indeed going into the gears.
turning the crankshaft clockwise with one shaft pinned the other shaft turns just as if it were going down the road.
then i tried to turn the shaft to spin engine __locked.
Attempt to turn the input shaft while it's in gear - what happens? answer - shafts rotate ( With 1 side pinned)
Attempt to turn an output shaft while it's in gear - what happens? answer - input shaft turns ( With 1 side pinned)
what got me to this point was pg54 of the engine section adjusting belts. it wasnt possible before because i didnt have all the wheels on.
dave
-
While I gathered more information on the amount of torque needed to rotate engine from rear wheel it it quite considerable from two other S2 owners.
Wife is busy sewing up door panels and seat panels. I try not to micromanage...but I worked with some of the worse Monday morning quarterbacks EVER!!! With that said I agreed with all her suggestions. Plus I like to eat 😂😂😂 :FUNNY:
As fate would have it I found a complete Chemise for my spare 821-30, so that block went up on the stand so I can start cleaning all the threaded holes.
At the same time I was working on the hemi head , ordering the last of the expendable parts. Cleaning all those threaded holes also. The one head bolt has enough threads in block but will need a longer stud of bolt.
While engine and gearbox out I managed to install the e brake cable but when weather permits I’ll push it outside and connect up the cables at the brake assemblies. Then pull out the cooling tubes and install the aft grommets In frame.
Corvette should be running tomorrow 🤪 I’ll try to upload a video to you tube.
Dakazman
-
It looks like you have a garage stuffed with projects, D'man!
-
All coming together at the same time. Did I mention the fridge that finally crashed, I found the Freon leak Inside the fridge, another thing to fix. The repair man couldn’t even find the leak.😡🤬
One day I’ll finish the Elcamino, it just needs an h system exhaust system and maybe a speedometer panel. Corvette another paint job😂😀
That’s what retirement is for!
Dakazman
-
Some rainy day projects going on installed the rear w/w close out panels. Yes I know , this is where air enters. Not any more!
Second project was headliner. I went old school and fabricated a series of brake lines that will hold up the fabric . It was an added bonus that my welding rods fit perfectly inside the tubing. After my wife pleats up a few curtain rod loops I will assemble the entire headliner inside vehicle without any glue. Using the Welding rods to Connect the tubing as I work it thru the fabric.
-
I have E brakes, :pirate: After walking away from some of the tunnel work I decided to finish it up today . Installed the new aft cable and while I was In there I pulled the cooling tubes and installed the grommets. Lessons learned.
I hooked up the crossflow engine to the gearbox today for positioning. Mine still has the extended crankshaft for pulley out the front.
I really want to keep that pulley for the A/C . So I’ll mock it up and see where the geometry of the shifter tubes takes me.
The problem with the 843 is that the (sealed) timing cover covers the crankshaft but by with the retainer bolt for the timing gear.
So work continues with fitting the wheel well close out panels. Done , except to buy correct 8-32 screws.
Headliner rods coming along . No glue works very long in this heat so I will hang it . Making the template for my wife to sew is next.
Dakazman
-
Looks like she has also a ' honey to do list' :BEER3:
-
E-brakes can be handy. Yippee!!! :beerchug:
-
I had a large block of free time today so I installed the hemi engine and the gearbox easily turns the engine , even with both wheel in gear the rear wheels turn the engine. 😃
So I probably built the engine to tight , meaning the machinist was correct in that the pistons slightly mushroom when the pins are pressed out and in to much. I now have a chemise for that engine.
My favorite part of the day was finding the crankshaft pulley has a really good chance of clearing the shifter linkage after I nodded the pulley. I still have a final cut and blending to do, BUT I SEE AN A/C IN ITS FUTURE!😅
Dakazman
-
The pistons and rods need to heated in a hot oil bath when fitting the piston pin. Otherwise, there will be damage.
I wanted to run the AC compressor off my crank pulley, too. Once it’s all together though, there just wasn’t any room. If you do figure something out, I’d love to see it.
-
Sure John , the 843 block has plenty of extra bolt holes for brackets and such. The linkage seems to be functional at this time. Just eyeballing it! The forward linkage arm may need to be raised on the section to shifter for even more room. This only works with the extended crankshaft, the 821-30 ‘s Crankshaft is shorter .
On the pistons in the 821 they were soaked and pressed In and out seamlessly. But we’re not matched sets and from different donors. It was my first build , I learned a lot thanks to everyone here. Nothing ruined just a little more work. Im also getting better with my install times.😂
Dakazman
-
:trophy:
Not that I’m celebrating just yet however I have a pulley off the crankshaft and a fully operational 4speed gearbox .
The AC compressor location is next. After talking to Literarymadness going with more power seemed to be the right choice and seeing Pfreens’ ac setup it was the only way to go.
I couldn’t get the hoist and tilt to work ,(last photo) :FUNNY: After jumping over the frame so many times I thought about safety.
Dakazman
-
Looking good, D'man! Looking at the clearance between the pulley and the shift linkage, it makes another good reason for a cable shifter. Have you considered it?
-
BDA, its actually approx 3/16"away from the pulley when in 1-3 .after i moved the linkage around i have about !/2".
plenty of room. i wish i had a spare NG gearbox to mock up the linkage. :) if i run a stacked pump setup I can use some E/H valves for shifting.. big money there.
I'm looking at the universal under dash a/C kit off ebay and talked to the company about the different size condensers and they will make up the lines to fit all for 450.00. the evaporator can be mounted in the front or in the rear compartment where the spare fuel tank goes.
Dman
-
Just noticed your shift knob. ;D
-
:FUNNY: :FUNNY:
I just wanted to see if people were paying attention.
You pass !
D’man
-
:trophy:
-
Moving in what seems like endless directions the interior seat coverings are underway!
I appointed my BA since my sewing skills are next to nil. I’m not use to these new work rules . The garage work came inside 😀. I went with 4” foam for side bolsters which will be covered in vinyl and the center sections 2” foam covered In microfiber.
Rought cut all the sections and will start forming the contours today. No I will not be in the house 🙁 sanding foam is the really messy. Working outside is like working in a big sauna lately 100% humidity and tents in the mid 90’s.
Dakazman
-
That is a flash back. Have fun with it and never give up.the old foam on my seats was in much worse shape. And covers barley able to make patterns.
-
Gary,Oh what fun!
Finished cutting and forming both seat cushion sets. It was better than forming styrofoam. ( see off topics if you haven’t seen my 6 ft high tiki heads. )
All I have to say is AUGHHH! 🙃🙂
Now for the hard part, getting my wife to start sewing .🤷🏼♂️🥴
Dakazman
-
It looks like the foam pieces came out really good! :beerchug:
-
Dakazman all you have to do is go sit at her machine and say "how does this darn thing work?"
-
:FUNNY:
i really believe she has union work rules and i do enjoy all the meals she cooks. :headbanger:i i cant poke the tiger to much... I'll try it anyway.
dakazman
-
Thanks BDA, It wasn’t that bad , I sanded with a high speed grinder with 60 grit . The trick is to bend the foam slightly when sanding and to keep your gyro going at all times as to proper orientation.
Took out the ashtray today and fabricated a close out panel at the exhaust pipe area. It will also help mounting the license plate.
-
Raining for the last 4 days so I pick and choose, what to do next! I needed to place most of the crossflow engine parts on the engine to determine where the exhaust manifold will go after I found it not available from the usual vendors. With a starting point of 1-3/8” pipes in mind, local shops mentioned 1-1/2” was the smallest diameter pipe available. Starting with a base 1/4” steel plate I traced out the outline of the exhaust manifold. Finding the oval exhaust ports are approximately
4-1/2 “ diameter the 1-1/2” pipe fits on the Slightly larger side when Formed into a oval so off I went forming something.
So moving along I was reading a new members ,MRN I J , post , and wow what a coincidence , allmost the same design. Let you know after I make the rest of the cuts . A/C compressor should have plenty of room above exhaust.
Dakazman
-
Have you tried to talk to Michel at AlpineAmerica (http://www.alpine-america.qc.ca)? I would think he'd either have a set of headers for you or be able to make up a set for you...
-
Thanks BDA, I'll send him a message.
Dman
-
It might be best to translate your email into French using google translate. He speaks English but his accent is very thick.
-
Yes very much so BDA, I have conversed with him before. I didn’t know google could do that.
A lot of his parts listed are directly from Meccaparts downtown the part numbers and pictures. However anything I can do to speed up this build is welcome.
I also purchased a book to read on exhaust and intake design suggested by JB . Welding up a header shouldn’t be that difficult . I did work at a Meineke muffler shop just to help the owner out years ago.
Dakazman
-
If you're competent to build your own headers, search for "header modeling kits." You snap together plastic bends and straights to give you the lengths and the fit you want. Then you cut the tubing to match the plastic pieces and weld it together. Easy for me to say! :)
Your goal should be to do a better job than was done on the Gurney Weslake F1 headers. See the attached pictures.
Notice that they are made of titanium, there are no joints and that none of the runners touch. But they were made way back in 1967 so there must be some improvement you can make!
-
Raining for the last 4 days so I pick and choose, what to do next! I needed to place most of the crossflow engine parts on the engine to determine where the exhaust manifold will go after I found it not available from the usual vendors. With a starting point of 1-3/8” pipes in mind, local shops mentioned 1-1/2” was the smallest diameter pipe available. Starting with a base 1/4” steel plate I traced out the outline of the exhaust manifold. Finding the oval exhaust ports are approximately
4-1/2 “ diameter the 1-1/2” pipe fits on the Slightly larger side when Formed into a oval so off I went forming something.
So moving along I was reading a new members ,MRN I J , post , and wow what a coincidence , allmost the same design. Let you know after I make the rest of the cuts . A/C compressor should have plenty of room above exhaust.
Dakazman
this bunch of bananas is what replaced the log manifold a year after that picture, it hasn't been used for 25 years, I was fairly disapointed to find that the primary's aren't all the same length, however with reasonably current thinking that different lengths (about 4 ins IIRC) broaden the torque curve.
The flange was matched with the port, however from personal experience with 1950s Aston engines and consulation with our head guy at the time (ex Cosworth dfv), a mismatch is required with the flange being at least 3mm larger than the port but don't enlarge the port, on an Aston making the port the same size as the flange cost us 20 to 30 hp on a 2.922 ltr 1/2 race engine or 4/ 5 hp per pot.
I cut the flange off & fitted the manifold with a larger bore flange.
The manifold & box fitted under the luggage box, the only downside ? was that after switching off the engine the unburnt fuel used to explode 30 seconds to 2 minutes after depending on hard you had driven it.
It caused a few hard looks by the armed police at Birmingham airport, they reached for their machine guns after the bang
-
Thanks for the info and pics all.
The lower pics confirmed my second design of joining cylinders 1/2 and 3/4 since those cylinders are at TDC and BDC which would continue the flow. Live and learn .
Four tubes :headbanger: Maybe if running open headers directly up and out the engine cover .
Dakazman
-
on a 4 cyl you can use a 4 into 2 into 1 or a 4 into 1 as I have, not much room for a 4 into 2 into 1 if using correct length primary's unless you use a transverse silencer, which all adds more weight.
-
Richard makes a cross-flow header. I have one. It isn't cheap but it is very well made.
-
JB, Well that’s great news, at least know I’m not build an engine I can’t get an exhaust system for. Again thanks for the help all😀.
I have another question then about your A/C system. I’m looking at kits for an underdash , all parts from the same vendor, did you go that route or were all components sourced separately?
Dakazman
-
Mine is an S1 and there just isn't any room to spare for behind the dash system. I located my evaporator where the spare tire sits. At least one person has successfully put a behind the dash unit in an S2/TC (can't remember which but they are similar in dash layout).
Under the dash units leave no room for knees or legs.
-
Richard makes a cross-flow header. I have one. It isn't cheap but it is very well made.
I can get one made with a stainless flange from my pattern, the manifold is stainless tube, as the box is.
We ship all over the world
-
Sorry Chris , we posted at the same time . PM me
Yes, Banks does indeed have it . Pricey little devil! Pus tax and shipping...yikes.
My exhaust collector , plan B , pictured . Lol
However Plan c 12 meters of pipe , 79.00 free shipping if over 99$
New MIG welder 400.
Picture of header. Gold
I’ll even put a wrap over my welds so no one sees the baby poop lines...
Dakazman
-
I also saw mention of an under-dash AC unit somewhere. I'm certain it was from Vintage Air
https://www.vintageair.com/builder-series/?subcat1=Under%20Dash
-
Hi Gideon,
I am leaning toward coldmasterinc on ebay they have a variety of condenser sizes and the lines are available in longer lenghts than the kit comes with. I installed a 843 which had a pulley thru the timing case cover, longer crankshaft... waiting for another so I can install in an 821-30.
my crank on the 843 has a stroke of 85 mm on the 79mm dia bore . I still need to plug in some other factors to determine the compression ratio. Im still learning, at 65.
dakazman
-
Hi Gideon,
I am leaning toward coldmasterinc on ebay they have a variety of condenser sizes and the lines are available in longer lenghts than the kit comes with. I installed a 843 which had a pulley thru the timing case cover, longer crankshaft... waiting for another so I can install in an 821-30.
my crank on the 843 has a stroke of 85 mm on the 79mm dia bore . I still need to plug in some other factors to determine the compression ratio. Im still learning, at 65.
dakazman
surely 84mm ?
-
MRN, Probably 84mm , it is -1mm in cylinder.
My problem of the tightness came back. Previously, I pulled out the wedge motor and installed the crossflow and it seemed the wedge motor was to tight , I assuming it was the pistons. Well now I find out 3rd and 4th engine turns very easily. In 2nd it is difficult and jerky . I now think I have a problem with the gearbox. Other than it leaking out of the output shaft seals.
I made a video, any help or Comments?
https://youtu.be/yHxU6iFPNoo
https://youtu.be/0zQz-RXAfqk
I also needed to install gearbox since I couldn’t get the seal carrier loose.
So today’s jobs are the above and pull crossflow out to tear down and inspect. Also check to see if it hold water.
Dakazman
-
Dave,
I think you you would find that if you turned the engine via the crankshaft, you would find the opposite is true. Easy to turn in first, more difficult in fourth. It's the gearing. If you want to keep your car from rolling down the hill (especially with the Europa emergency brake), put it in first. If you leave it in 4th, goodbye Lotus.
I think all is well.
-
Thanks Paul, That really explains it, I hope others know that as well. I also failed to remove the carrier nuts, broke a fin off and decided to soak one side at a time and try to free up. The seals really need replacing. it looks like it has remnants of locktite on thread line. i may need to get the heat gun on it or map torch.
The engine is out now and mounted on stand . water test good,no leaks in the liner seals. I'll be checking all the bearing surfaces on crank tomorrow, this 100 percent humidity is killing me.
Dave
-
The weather is awful. The only thing it is good for is the grass.
-
I made a video, any help or Comments?
https://youtu.be/yHxU6iFPNoo
https://youtu.be/0zQz-RXAfqk
G'day Dave,
Just one niggle.
You really should install some liner 'hold downs' so they don't lift as you turn the engine over.
-
Thanks Paul, That really explains it, I hope others know that as well. I also failed to remove the carrier nuts, broke a fin off and decided to soak one side at a time and try to free up. The seals really need replacing. it looks like it has remnants of locktite on thread line. i may need to get the heat gun on it or map torch.
The engine is out now and mounted on stand . water test good,no leaks in the liner seals. I'll be checking all the bearing surfaces on crank tomorrow, this 100 percent humidity is killing me.
Dave
Yep, I was reacquainted with how that works when I wanted to move my engine to check valve clearances. Putting it in 5th was MUCH easier!
-
Gavin, wow thanks. I completely forgot about that , I’ve been so obsessed about cleaning and retapping all the bolt holes and getting the A/C pulley to fit . MRN also came out with a building tip about the valves from Ford racing from a Pinto.
Dakazman
-
BDA,
I guess my wedge engine is OK , that’s what I was about to do, but probably kept putting it in 1/2 gear.
Dakazman
-
Gavin, wow thanks. I completely forgot about that , I’ve been so obsessed about cleaning and retapping all the bolt holes and getting the A/C pulley to fit . MRN also came out with a building tip about the valves from Ford racing from a Pinto.
Dakazman
Not just any Ford Pinto racing valve but one that is the correct dia, length & stem dia, it also needs positioing in the right place in the head, I have found my notes from 1989, a lot more work including a flow bench & dyno test if possible then we should be there.
I'll put some notes about wedge heads aswell.
-
Thanks Chris , you did mention diameter and length. I use to have a catalog of ford racing equipment way back when.
It’s amazing how this shutdown has backed up supplies of materials. My normal supplier is even out of fiberglass resin and window rubber sealant is back ordered also. So doing what I can jumping around to keep moving forward.
Cut some leather bolsters up for a template for the seats. Fitted a fiberglass close out for the exhaust area, but still will need to cut holes for exhaust system. Played around with a plastic mock up of an exhaust collector and waiting for a book on design of intake and exhaust systems, lol I probably bent all the rules. Finally a console in primer that I closed up the ashtray hole.
Dakazman
-
While inspecting the bearings on the 843 motor I Found that most bearings surfaces were allmost perfect . One had a gouge in it and created a hot spot right into the caps. I further inspection I saw some scratches on the lower cylinder sleeves. I removed the pistons and found no markings as to positioning in the motor. Pulling number 2 piston , connecting rod wrist pin was extremely tight , severely melted piston over the rings. I don’t know why this would have happened to what seems to be an engine that was previously just reassembled . I guess I have another delay! :headbanger:
My order for my under dash A/C system came in and all in good condition. Now to start on placement.
Seats , who would guess sewing thread would be out of stock here in the US, Canada to the rescue even with once a week crossings vendor shipped my order a week later.
Header tubing and collectors came in . I fabricated a 3/8” steel plate head exhaust plate , cut and drilled holes. Watching a few you tube videos on weather to buy a MIG or TIG welder . Reading of intake and exhaust systems moving along slowly, but found a few more ideas. Still looking for that modeler BDA, I’ll get a file somewhere but I need more uninterrupted time.
Dakazman
-
Excellent result, D'man.
I think it's safe to say that piston is stuffed . . even with the 'economical' 320x240 pics.
This is the outcome you needed to forge ahead (geddit) with some higher compression pistons.
What was the story behind "previously just reassembled"?
-
I have rebuilt many, many just rebuilt engines. Unless it comes with receipts from a shop known for its high quality work, always budget for a complete strip to check it over.
-
Gavin, the engine had signs of usage , old caked on ,burnt oil . The main bearing surfaces look brand new and the connecting rods barely worn in. I purchased two engines from California way back for parts , well this was one.
JB, exactly why I opened it up. It doesn’t add up that this much damage is on one piston and yet the engine turns over so easy. I also found alot of sandy grit In all the bolt cavities.
Well some high compression pistons and larger valves Are now in its future and other upgrades you guys mentioned, except for milling of the head . I’ll post better pics soon.
Since I have choices for my build:
1. The original Without A/C
2. An 821 with new liners and pistons (stock) with the crankshaft from the 843 , for the A/C. Talking to delta cams on two regrind on the cams (2).
3. Just build the 843 new pistons (high comp) screamer!😃 with A/C
Gaining experience fast but it should be worth it in the end.
Dakazman
-
Go for the screamer!
-
Lol, yep it’s fate, glad I caught it before I had a nice big hole in something and the body on.
I’ll probably go find another machine shop also so I can be done this year.
Dakazman
-
Fast questions.pertaining to a crossflow, Can the liners be bored over to accept larger pistons? I remember reading max piston size is 82mm. Who is a good supplier of forged pistons here in the states or canada. Connecting rods?
dakazman
-
Yes, the liners can be bored out but it can be tricky.
Allegedly there are bike shops that do this regularly so they may be more experienced.
But why not just get a whole new piston/liner set?
That's kinda the way the engine was intended to be refurbished.
Lots of suppliers from Mecaparts to Salv Sacco and many others - not sure about NA.
-
Offline Valerio Leone
Full Member
***
Joined: Nov 2013
Location: Italy-Sweden-US
Posts: 135
View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
wedge engine 821/697 the ultimate evolution.
« on: Saturday,July 18, 2015, 06:46:39 AM »
Quote
Lightened crankshaft (-1.5 kilos)
Lightened rods (by saenz) and pistons (-120 grams each)
Aluminium flywheel by fidanza (-3.5 kilos)
Pistons CPS italy CR 11.5/1
cam 43-73-67-37 lift 108
Gavin, I’m new to building a Custom engine. the above build (for a wedge) mentioned 11.5/1 pistons , yes To high for what I want but a street able 10.5 piston. I went with to that website to see what was available. Wow, a lot of choices ,? ... I saw the kits at Meccaparts and probably the better route for a novice like me .
On another note, I did find a cam shop that will regrind my 821 cams . I will have one cam cut stock and the other a slightly aggressive version. They also stated the hey have cores and they can make anything. I just received my chemise kit for my 2nd 821. My only holdup will be finding another 843 crankshaft with the pulley assembly and the timing chain cover. I want A/C in Florida in a black car. 🤪
Dakazman
-
While waiting for some parts decided to clean and polish some items up to my normal standards.
This block was extremely corroded and still only sanded to 220 .
Dakazman
-
8)
-
D'man, make sure you get some good sunglasses when you get your car going!
-
Looking great as usual. I'm sure it's been asked and answered in the previous 72 pages, are you coating the aluminum and what with if you are?
-
70’ Yes , I’m using a hi heat ceramic clear coat. I’ve seen the effects on the paint on the Classic Honda motorcycle I’ve polished a year ago . Without coating water spots were killing me. Afterward, finish remained bright and mirror like.
It is a lot of work, first engine took about 24 hours of sanding and polishing. This one badly corroded pits etc has taken 40 and still needs about 16 more. The next one, an 821 is in great shape and will only take 16 hours.
I don’t sit there in large blocks of time but as a filler between jobs.
Dakazman
-
You have me motivated to polish mine. Perhaps I'll pull it next winter and polish it up. I love polished aluminum!
-
70, just start on a small object , learn the process of removing just the damaged areas and leaving the flat , unscratched areas alone. Polish and object first to see damaged areas. Be agressive, be gentle. Go over an object several times is better than giving yourself more work on a section that just needs polishing.
Tools we talked about in the , off topics Threads. I guess I’ll have to add a few comments that I was wrong about, 4-600 grit is good enough and even 220 to see a nice polished finish once buffed with green rouge on a fabric wheel.
Dakazman
-
Need some help. Trying to find a Renault16 ts or tx parts manual in pdf form . I need bolt lengths an size .
Gavin and pfreen are both right, a screamer! Mecaparts has what I need or want. 82.5 mm forged piston, rings and liners. I seems the best route to get this engine up and running ASAP. Along with some larger intake valves and it head work.
I fabricated a plate to block off the forward water pump on head , would it be better to install a hose bib and circle it back around to the inlet line?
Dakazman
-
I fabricated a plate to block off the forward water pump on head , would it be better to install a hose bib and circle it back around to the inlet line?
Dakazman
Dave,
I've read somewhere that heads with the water pump at the timing end have different passages made available for the coolant.
My presumption is that the coolant flows are different.
I don't know what difference that makes or how it might be addressed if that's what's needed.
-
With my attention turned to another wedge since I have new chemise of stock 77mm liners and pistons. Deltacams finished two camshafts one stock and the other a modified street. Awaiting delivery , another thing they have blank cores for whatever grind you want 😃
So I polished up another block and head while waiting. I moved forward on numerous other jobs that parts showed up to do. I had a bad month ...several items decided to quit working, chop saw, lawnmower, tools etc. Putting out those fires and the honey do list🤣. More to come.
Dakazman
PS some humor for all !
-
Thankfully I'm married to Mrs. BDA and I don't have to worry about your last meme. I like the throat spray but do you have it in Bourbon flavor?
More shiny stuff! I can't wait for your shiny motor to make noise!
-
Lol BDA, my wife does all the cooking and is a great chef that can make anything taste good.
I have a plan at least to make this one make some sound,that I will enjoy driving. AC in Florida. The gearbox seal plates are still stuck , I used map gas to loosen the locktite but no joy . I need to brace the gearbox to stop it from moving around the floor. I walked away from it twice to cool off so I don’t break anything. I broke one gun off the plate all ready , learning tapping the socket is not a good no impact wrenches either . Good thing my socket doesn’t have that adapter.
Dakazman
-
Again with things breaking my home air compressor circuit breaker burnt up and a chop saw switch.
Replaced both items and ready to make some headway on these problems.
821 head polished and ready to go out and get some larger valves to handle the mild street cam grind. I’ll post cam cam specs when I receive the cams.
Splitting the exhaust ports from intake again on a stock manifold for this motor so that I don’t have to dissemble the original 821 motors manifold. I wish I had a Hermès or twin DOCE 40’s manifold. Maybe I’ll find one someday ,somewhere .
Interior back on track with a set of sewing machine needles and heavy thread to finish the door panels and seats. Some headliner brackets for that project completed .
Dakazman
-
Going to need another intake manifold for this build also and I had a spare on my parts shelf . It had the notorious crack and probably why I picked it up cheap. I dove right in and ran it through my chop saw and slowly dissected it. I was waiting on the trigger switch for weeks, China made 😡 and fell apart internally after being used only a few times prior. Glad I’m a mechanic and understand things break, but lately it’s a tidal wave.
Then I started cleaning I up 🤪👍👍
I have to order my headers, water pump and fuel pump.
Dakazman
-
I have to order my headers, water pump and fuel pump.
It's fun to get toys, isn't it?
I think I remember that you were going with the stock mechanical fuel pump but if you decide to go electrical, I think the genuine Facet cube pumps are a great deal. Very reliable and compact.
-
Thanks BDA,
I was going to switch to electric with the crossflow engine since the cam is not setup for a mechanical pump. Since I’m putting the second modified wedge in , keeping a mechanical pump seems easier but I really want to build up the crossflow and that mod will be a logical path.
Babysitting today but tomorrow I need to attack the gearbox issues. Rain and temperatures keeping me from that job as I need room to break out the acetylene torch.
Dakazman
-
My cams came back from deltacams in Washington state so now to study the cam card.
They look amazing . I took the advice of a knowledgeable builder and asked for a mild street grind for a stock Renault 1565 . Cam card data below. Please comment!
The other cam just stock, so maybe that’s s why I only received 1 cam card but wrote deltacams to clarity.
Progressing slowly and did manage to repair my compressor circuit breaker, chopsaw, lawnmower and a few other things. Good news I can start putting the wedge engine together 😀 polishing complete. and the door window trim, the rubber seal adhesive cams in after 2 months. Head on it’s way back to machinist for larger intake valves.
Dakazman
-
215 duration should have it revving quite nicely!
-
Finished polishing up the 821 block. A good wash down tomorrow so I can start with the assembly starting with the crankshaft and checking all tolerances.
Dakazman
-
You mean you didn't polish the counterweights on your crank?!! :FUNNY:
-
You can "knife edge" cranks. Of dubious benefit but it looks really cool.
-
BDA, It’s not polished, Just cleaned with WD-40 and 1-3000 grit . I was pleasantly happy with the results.
JB , the machinist said , do to the way I intend to drive car , Sunday’s and car shows ,Balancing not necessary. I’m going to explain this new set of circumstances with him do to all new pistons and liners going in . The chemise Kit does not have any information with them other than being assembled with Piston/rings in It’s liner.
After reading the ultimate wedge in the paddock area I’ve been researching what crankshaft lightning is and benefits . I came across The knife edge gimmick videos on YouTube .
Dakazman
-
Got a go ahead from the machinist for crankshaft. Not balancing required, and also some tips on a new tool for me to assemble. It’s for inserting the wrist pin after heating the rod. Place the piston with the old wrist pin on the pad and set the piston against the bottom brace. set the stop bolt for height and Depth in piston. Heating the rod with a yellow flame Of an acetylene torch just enough to see a slightly red change. Making sure correct orientation is observed run the wrist pin through piston.
Heating piston may help.
Other progress :?My console is ready for paint and door panel covering sewn up and ready to be secured to door cards.
Dakazman
-
Sometimes you just have to go to extreme measures 😡 after battling this nut plate for days , I gave up and started to cut it out. In an hour or so I unthreaded the rest of the nut out. I’ve seen this is my shopping expeditions somewhere so I went for it. You can see the residual sealant that was oozed into the bearing. I also found the shims and the seal housing after removing, I hope I can get these.
If I only do one side at a time and just tighten to snug on the free play will I be in the ballpark or should I remove bell housing and mic it up?
Dakazman
-
The transaxle is out. Just a few more bolts and you can do it properly.
-
If I only do one side at a time and just tighten to snug on the free play will I be in the ballpark or should I remove bell housing and mic it up?
If someone used locking compound on the output nuts, that's all you need to know IMHO.
Best to do it as per the book.
"It's the only way to be sure."
~ Ripley
-
I have the differential nuts one the way and seals 11mm . I also found the shims people in all about that were pressed into the seal. I was not what I expected to see how the seal seals and against what.
I’m hesitant to split the case but would only have regrets afterwards. Parts seem non existent also .
At least I’ll answer my he question about the primary shaft coming out .
Dakazman
-
D'man,
I can't figure out what you're saying in that post.
Regarding splitting the case, is the gearbox a known quantity as to it's condition?
-
I have the differential nuts one the way and seals 11mm . I also found the shims people in all about that were pressed into the seal. I was not what I expected to see how the seal seals and against what.
I’m hesitant to split the case but would only have regrets afterwards. Parts seem non existent also .
At least I’ll answer my he question about the primary shaft coming out .
Dakazman
Have you tried Meca Parts or Alpine America? Google translate is probably going to be your friend with these folks.
-
You don't split the cases. Just remove the bell housing. Simple, straight-forward job.
-
Thanks guys,
Gavin, I do not know the condition of the gearbox. So that’s why I thought it would be a good time to at least inspect it’s condition . Sorry, I was interrupted several times while writing .
JB, correct, the hardest part of the job is reading the manual and the online pdf for missing or distorted words . If you suggest not to split , I’m all in . I must have read the string pull procedure several times and still a little Leary of it. I guess until I see the movement they state, I’am being cautious.
BDA , also correct, alpine and Mecca have the nut but Renault 16 shop adds in the seal assembly. They also have the 5 gear version, as they state it. I have the 4 speed , 4 gear , 336/56 gearbox.
D’man
-
Ahhh . . OK.
With my original restoration, I sent the gearbox out to a recommended specialist. It was working fine but I don't have enough gearbox knowledge to do it myself and I just wanted to be sure. IIRC he replaced bearings but that was about it. Given there was nothing actually wrong, it was a cheap enough job.
But with your situation, you basically have to set the diff backlash, I reckon.
It could be argued if you just did that, you'd be fine. Pulling the gearbox at a later date is no biggie.
-
With two engine builds going on , I’m taking this short cut on gearbox . going to get this engine
Installed with the 843 extended crankshaft in the 821 block . All within tolerance. New Stock pistons, liners and rings going in. The headers are on there way from R&D.😀. BDA hopefully it will make some sound.
One of my neighbors offered up his engine run stand after his motor comes off it, so I’ll be able to run the original motor previous built. I’ll just need to adjust the valve lash .
On the crossflow, I’ll need another crankshaft, pistons, liners . Eyeing up Mecca parts 82.5mm chemise .😀
I talked to the Machinist and we discussed the term hemi. True it’s a hemi head but to be a true hemi head needs to be a complete circle in the chamber. Another lesson learned. I’ll have to pull up califkid s head work to see what material was cut out.
D’man
-
Another update!
Arts and crafts Time..., but someone has to do it. I have a new respect for seamstress, my wife, her contributions to this have been immense. I slowly adhering the vinyl to the door card. All my test have failed on adhesives . So , back to contact cement. If I see it coming off I’m going to hit it with son glass resin.😂.
I purchased a header from r&d for the wedge but it can help with the 843 mockup.
Hope to load this little clip of my vette engine up for it valve adjustment. I heard a tap even at zero lash. The hydraulic lifters run on a roller cam. After 8 months I couldn’t tell if they retained there oil.
Dakazman
-
Looking good, D'man! Your wife deserves top billing! :trophy:
-
I did my car and the only adhesive to stand up to the Florida heat is https://www.zoro.com/3m-contact-adhesive-1-pint-graygreen-1357/i/G1985173/.
I have had to reglue almost everything in the car. Luckily, not the headliner.
It is a neoprene based contact adhesive. Good luck!
-
Thanks Paul,
We used that on aircraft, we used the neoprene 1357. Lol , coughing,Just pulled up the price... I forgot the number and manufacturer. I was ready to put some fiberglass resin on the ends. I’ll order some up while I’m waiting for some hylomar that has a shipping date of mid September.
Dakazman
-
Gearbox rear axle nut assemblies came in and I been dreading the job of installing. First I had to clean up the thread locker sealant used . Clean up threads and install the new seals . After 4 hours I managed to get one side to thread in by hand , small victory but I’ll take it. Next I installed the seal and assembled noting the difference in seals . Teflon backup vs non Teflon .
Then I turned it over and after another 2 hours managed to remove the nut. I’ll clean it up tomorrow, and celebrate another victory. It’s way to hot , feel like temps of 105f make it a long day.
I’ll be pulling the bell housing to do the setup at a later point.
Dakazman
-
After getting out of the heat and cracking open a cold beer, that has to feel good! :beerchug:
-
Sooo good! And at least seven days a week x2 🍺 not till 5pm☹️
-
It's always after 5:00 somewhere! ;D
-
Lol Yep. It’s just what time zone your friends are in .
One correction to the above seal - it’s not Teflon, it’s felt. I guess it just picked up some debris from somewhere that I picked off the first one. I guess you could add it under the seal assembly but I didn’t see it in the manual.
Dakazman
-
The felt component, like the second lip on the other seal, is to protect the main seal lip from dust, dirt and other crap.
-
The weather still hot and sticky, so I’ve been buying parts , another complete head for the second wedge arrived this week and a piston for the crossflow coming.
My retirement package finally came out and as of Oct 1 , I’m officially retired after 43 years with Delta airlines. A new milestone achieved. :trophy:
Dakazman
-
Congratulations!
-
Now you will have no time to do anything.
-
Congratulations on your (official) retirement, D'man!! :beerchug:
Now we'll expect some real progress! :)
-
Congrats on your retirement Dakazman! I retired September 1st. Everyday is a Saturday and you get to do all the things you want to do, not have to do.
I’m following your build. Keep up the great work.
-
THANKS GUYS!
Dave
-
Congratulations Dave!!!
-
Now you will have no time to do anything.
Exactly right.
When my brother retired he became so busy he had to put a lad on.
Oh . . and congratulations, D'man. :beerchug:
-
Thanks Chuck and Gavin,
The guys in work keep me in the loop , taunting me because they know I love it so .
These pics show what we do to keep flying, it breaks up the monotony of daily checks and mundane tasks .
-
D'man, I'm not sure but it doesn't look like any of those will fit in a Europa! :FUNNY:
-
My retirement package finally came out and as of Oct 1 , I’m officially retired after 43 years with Delta airlines. A new milestone achieved. :trophy:
Congrats D'man! A free man in the prime of life, what could be better?
Tom
-
D'man, I'm not sure but it doesn't look like any of those will fit in a Europa! :FUNNY:
If you do shoehorn one of them in, I'd recommend a brake upgrade and bigger tanks! :FUNNY:
-
That's one of the smaller engines I hung,doing one thats Two stories up is a little more tricky. Some of the APU's (auxiliary power unit) wouldn't even fit but they could power up your whole blocks power usage and cook up some nice BBQ.
Thanks again Guys , Ill post some pics of the retirement party that was put on hold due to Covid19. :beerchug:
Dave
-
Well Done D’man. Ya made it! As a pilot I am always appreciative of the engineers. “We bend’em you mend’em”! You can now hang up your stamp.
-
Thanks Bodzer,
Safety is job one, no doubt. Sometimes I was called inspector and did my fair share of going to the mat . People hate us and love us at different times. I always went by the book.
Sorry to have missed you on your last visit.
Dave
-
There will be a next time! My family and I love Florida. Sadly it looks like my Aer (big hint!) line won’t be starting the Miami route again. MCO is still going to happen though. I can say with a clear conscience that I have never put the engineers under pressure to get a job done although I’ve seen other captains do it. That never ends well.
More time for the Europa and the grandkids. I hope they’re all well.
-
I am also a pilot but gave it up after 9/11 when our local air park shutdown. We had a nice 2k runway. We also had a flight school that foreign students could get lots of flight time in for their certification.
Babysitting is a real challenge! Especially during nap time , mine , not theirs... :FUNNY:
Dakazman
-
I ran across some differences on some 821 wedge heads. Being a novice I ran across two different keepers on the intake valves , on different wedge heads. Both had a single catch the valves were also longer. The springs longer and the obvious dual springs. The valves themselves were also longer.
All the exhaust valves were the same on 3 heads.
Are these differences in the model or year Renault?
I also came across this for a crossflow heads intake valve.
Dakazman
-
I suspect that there is some variation in valves from one manufacturer to another. This includes the length of the stem and the type of keepers. When I was doing a valve adjustment on my BDA (story coming soon!), I bought some valve shims from Dave Bean. What I got was not the flat shims my engine had but little caps that fit on the top of the valve stem. The caps were deeper than the distance between the top of the keeper and the top of the valve stem. I didn't feel comfortable trimming the "skirt" of the cap enough to fit on my valves so I didn't use them but this leads me to believe there are at least variations in designs for a particular engine and there may in fact be generic valves that you choose based on a few variables like material, the stem diameter, stem length, and valve diameter.
All this is a fair amount of guessing and supposition so I hope someone with better knowledge of this will speak up.
-
On engines where original parts were impossible to find, my machinist would adapt other valves and machine them to fit. That includes machining for the keepers.
-
I see ,
Which spring set should I use the stiffer dual or shorter single? I would assume as a safety feature having a dual spring would be beneficial.
On the crossflow:
I increased the size of the intake on the crossflow slightly 1mm . It will go to the machinist as soon as I locate some exhaust valves and keepers for them.
I was also able to locate a single 79 mm never used piston , so with a little honing to the sleeve and a set of rings the crossflow will start going together.
Dakazman
-
I was told many years ago that multiple springs are used because they have different resonant frequencies as well as to increase the tension on the valve. I would think that it would depend on the weight of your valve train and the expected rpms. I would think you want the dual spring setup.
-
Another about face ! My plans for installing a 821 wedge with the crankshaft of an 843 crossflow got sidelined by finding out the block needs a line bore on the block. My machinist sent me to another shop that can do that job. I also located another wedge head that is in good condition but with slight damage to one cylinder , milling the head slightly may clean up the damage.
So back to assembling the crossflow which as you may remember had a frozen piston pin and melted rings on the piston. I located a single piston, 😃 so I removed the 821 from the engine stand and as I was ready to mount the crossflow decided to remove the liners and further clean and inspect the block.
Liners and block cleaned up nicely by I found why nbr 2 piston failed , the thrust bearings were set incorrectly causing the piston to rub against the aft side of the block . That explains why the that piston pin seized .
Now that the weather cooled down to 90 I’m back at it.
BDA , my machinist wants to put the single spring on the head. He mentioned that since I woul only drive it at max 3k there would be less stress on the cam. I held my ground and said to install the dual spring. I can’t wait to get passed these engine builds but I’m insistent on adding the pulley for the A/C
System.
Dakazman
-
You’re right to put your foot down. I’m quite sure you’ll want to twist it beyond 3000 rpm on occasion!
-
This is a Engine goal post for all of us ! supplied by yart racing on Instagram.
Dakazman
-
There must be something in the air, I too am starting the crossflow built. This time I installed the crankshaft and torqued all the caps fully. Crankshaft turns with one hand easily. I also placed the head on a will check all the head bolt strength. I know one needs to have a helicoil installed.
I found out my wedge block needs to be line bored. I confirmed it again by installing the original crankshaft and torqued caps . I could not turn with the center cap installed. I also found out it would cost 450$ to bore 😭, so that went to the back burner fast.
Dakazman
-
Just a little update on the status of my motors.
The second wedge motor needs to be line bored . At 450$ that’s on the back burner.
The crossflow needs one head bolt tapped out and a insert installed . I was lucky enough to remove an insert from another hole and managed to obtain 65 ft lb on threads in that and all but one other hole. I have An m10 and m12 tap on order but with a delivery date of Dec 17 I’m not happy.
That leaves me with my original wedge that seemed to tight . I decided to tear it back down today , the pistons and liners are definitely the cause. I guess this is why they sell as sets . The pistons move freely without rings when I was building it up and I had trouble installing as you may recall. Well all that aside a new , old stock set of pistons and liners will be ready next week for install. I will also be adding the mild cam to it.
Lol I tried to make an appointment with my local lotus dealer so I can have that gearbox backlash check and an estimated cost, but all I got back so far is crickets. I’ll follow it up next week with a phone
call .
Dakazman
-
What ring gaps are you running?
-
Let us know if the dealer will work on your tranny. I suspect they will beg off saying they don’t have any experience with it.
Good luck!
-
JB , I’ll have to check the installation paperwork that came with the ring set. I don’t want to throw a figure out but the gaps were within the range. I purchased them from RD , devees I believe.
One item that was in the manual, that I reread ,after installation was complete, is a statement, hone cylinder walls after piston is installed. I did not re-hone liner walls , it was just done prior.
After sitting several months now the torque to turn the headless block was extremely difficult even with oil. I’ll have time to sort this out later.
The new set of pistons and liners with rings move much Aeasier. Machinist is installing the rods onto the pistons this time.
Dakazman
-
You don't hone the cylinders after the pistons are installed. To what effect? How could you possibly clean the resulting mess?
-
Thanks JB , I thought it was real. It must have been a nightmare from dealing with these experiences I’m going through.
I did sit down today and read two different on line Renault manuals, two workshop manual one Renault 15/17 , and our lotus manual and a Renault service manual . I Could not find that reference ! 🤔
I have another 2 manuals , both PDFs, on line one German , that I wish I could read because it points out differences in all models 807/821/841/843 ... all on the same page or in close succession. It also has more details than any other Renault manual I’ve seen.
BDA, still crickets!
Dakazman
-
I think you’re going to have to find a manual tranny shop that has Renault experience (if possible) or European transaxles if not. Given the volatility in Lotus dealers, I would be surprised if your dealer has been with Lotus more than 20 years.
As for honing your cylinders, I can only guess that they mean to hone the cylinders after you’ve gotten the correct bore for your pistons. As JB says you would never be able to clean that up without talking it all apart and what would be the point then?
-
Oh I understand that completely about the honing. I don’t know if anyone else dreams of what he wants to accomplish the next day but I do. 😂 maybe that’s why I need naps.
As for transmission shops , no luck talking with them . I have 1 other shop that deals in gearboxes , but. They are on the other coast of Florida, Approximately a two hour drive . I have also been reading a lot about backlash and preload. It wouldn’t hurt anything if I set it up and made an effort to go thru the process. It does seem pretty straight forward. As an adjunct I watched a few you tube videos to further pick up any tips. One was to apply a lubricant to check the path, before and after messing with adjustments.
Dakazman
-
Does your tranny have adjustable pinion depth? If not, setting them up isn't that hard. I did mine and wrote about it here: http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=1960.0. You need a dial indicator and a spring scale and whatever you use to adjust your ring nuts. Some machinists blue, gear marking compound or even a fat marker is good to analyze the contact pattern. There are lots of youtube videos that help you analyze the pattern. If your tranny, like my NG3, does not have an adjustable pinion depth, the only thing there is to worry about is the backlash and the pre-load of your bearings.
-
Thanks BDA,
I had some eBay bucks to spend so I ordered some Prussian blue and a spring scale. I have a dial indicator. I can’t wait to get started.
I enjoyed reading your thread , a lot of good info !👍👍
Dakazman
-
JB , if you’re still there, with the pistons out I measured the top ring gap it is between.014-.016 at different travel points on two liners. Per deves, it’s about mid range for a cylinder bore of 60.00 - 89.99
The ring set is std. Pistons move freely in liners .
My crankshaft now instead and torqued rotates by one finger😃 gauge readings measured just
below .003 on all mains.
Dakazman
-
What type of oil control ring do you have? One piece? Or, three piece?
-
821 update:
4 pieces , flat metal band followed by a wavy ring and a top and bottom ring. Those two rings showed the most contact . As it should , I assume. No sign of any abrasions on pistons
843 update:
My head bolt problem is driving me crazy! It’s a 7/16 /1.5 thread. See pictures
I ordered an m10 tap to clean up whatever is in the lower section of the chamber. See last pic.
I know there is no such thing as a 7/16 with 1.50 threads , but with the Gauges I purchased that’s what I’m getting.
On another note my wife had some Rhine to sew up the bolsters for my seats. 😀 it’s up to me to make it all come together and glue and finesse them into shape.
-
G'day Dave,
Here's a pic of one of my head bolts.
If you click on that little blue button, it takes you to the dark side; the dark mysterious Metric side.
Head bolts are M12 x 1.5.
Put a M12 x 1.5 nut on your bolt and all will be revealed.
Of course, that still doesn't mean you aren't crazy, but most of us get away without medication ;-)
-
Another thought, Dave,
Got a pic of your oil ring?
Sometimes the middle wavy part can end up overlapping itself instead of 'butting up' during installation.
This is wild speculation on my part but could explain the stiffness.
-
+1, I'm with Gavin T. I think it's oil control rings assembled incorrectly.
-
JB and Gavin ,
You both are allowed to smack me upside my head if we should meet.
I wasn’t to oil rings but I made an assumption that the mid ring would be approximately the same as the top compression ring. I have , 0 , gap . So my next question is should, or can, I trim ;or should I send them to back to Deves.
. Dakazman
-
There are ring filers that hold the ring and you turn a crank to spin an abrasive wheel. (eg. search Amazon for "piston ring filer"). I used to just used a small file.
Edit: I replaced "always" with "used to" because "always" sounded like I built lots of engines. I've built a few.
-
Make sure you check each individual ring in its bore. You can adjust the gap with a file. Lock the file upright in a vise, place both ring ends against either side of the file and move it up and down. GO SLOW. Frequently check your work in the bore to make sure the ends are still square.
-
Thanks guys,
I did check each top ring in each cylinder and I should have checked the centers as well 😭
I just now installed them in my new liners to see how they fit . They were even had a slight overlap.
I know how brittle they are and how fast they break . First I’ll file the old sets for practice . I’ll keep you posted and I’ll GO Slow since a new set of gaskets won’t be here till Nov 3. -6 estimated .
Dakazman
-
Good outcome, Dave.
Much better than taking the head off a piston on its first run.
-
Gavin, Point taken , love the gif. I’m surprised you got it to fit the 1mg max size.
Dakazman
-
Check the oil control rings as well.
-
Good point JB ,
I don’t want to redo this again. I filed down 3 cylinders so far to the Minimum.008.
I’ll shoot for .010-.012 . I’ll check the oil runs also.
Dakazman
-
Dave,
I may have missed this detail, but are you using new liners?
Even if you are, it's good practice to check the ring gaps lower down in the bore where the pistons will be at their lowest point.
Here's the "Everything You Need to Know About Ring Gap!" page from Wiseco which covers a lot of ground.
http://blog.wiseco.com/everything-you-need-to-know-about-ring-gap
Just kidding re the penguin, of course.
Reckon we've all been that penguin at one time or another; I certainly have. ;)
-
Thanks Gavin.
That gif is one of the originals, but still funny. Yes , I believe everyone has had one.
New, old , liners and pistons going in. I received them packed in set form but when I just went to install the wrist pins found the center runs missing on all pistons sets 🤬
Since the other blocks bore is bent, from it’s two blown piston that I pulled out of it. I never really turned it over while doing the tear down. I’ll be looking for an 821 block.
The 843, the scored piston with melted over rings , has been replaced . My order for a ring set, 79mm , put on hold, till I determine the course of action on the head bolt threads.
Gearbox, bell housing off and readying for backlash check.
Seats, making some room in garage to glue the side bolsters in.
:FUNNY: Who said retirement is easy!!!
Dakazman
-
Spent the day working on the gearbox now that my spring scale and Prussian blue came in.
At first I applied the blue to the gears and turned the primary gear to check wear . I had somewhat of a wear print but was not satisfied with the Prussian blue compound due to it being the non-drying application.
Secondary I tried again with a molybdenum base lube application. Even with it being dry it did what it was designed for and no wear was uncovered.
Next I tried brake pad adhesive coating , once dry it worked well. Showing a nice pattern, not correct but readable.
Loosened both nuts and checked backlash. At first I thought you needed six arms. With the dial indicator set on the teeth , I gained exactly what I needed to do and what and when to stop turning. Listening to the lash is important as your watching the dial indicator. So with the nuts loose and a big lash of ..040 you quickly learn how to even the differential in the case, and keep the 3-5 n turning rate, and the backlash lessening as the gears mate into each other. I managed to get it to the .005-010 range at .070.
I am going to go shopping for some other type of gear marking application and will retest the wear pattern.
-
Prussian blue isn't supposed to be dry. Apply it to the teeth and apply pressure to the ring gear with the palm of your hand as you turn the pinion via the output shaft (lock one of them). The bluing provides the "canvas" for the tooth contact pattern. In other words, the tooth is blue except where the two teeth contact. This is why you need to maintain some resistance to turning as you make the pattern.
You need to test the drive and coast patterns so you can determine what needs adjustment. There are some combinations of patterns that are not correctable and indicate the gearset is worn out.
-
I did see a video on pushing against the differential. Here is a picture of the initial coating without pressing.
Dakazman
-
There is a yellow gear marking compound you might want to find. Amazon has it but I bet you can find it locally. I didn’t use it but since it is for this purpose, it should work well.
Using a Sharpie worked ok for me. Whatever you use, in order to get the best pattern, make sure your gears are FIRMLY meshing.
I’ll remind you to see if you need to worry about pinion depth. Some Renault trannies have adjustable pinion depth and some (like the NG3, thankfully) don’t.
-
Just found this that might be interesting: https://www.pirate4x4.com/threads/gear-marking-compound-alternatives.955158/
-
Yes this does have a pinion adjustment , or such in the manual however that was not touched. I’m keeping it simple. The advice JB mentioned gave on proper turning most likely will help . I was turning the primary shaft with the gearbox in gear . I put the clutch disc on it to really spin it.
BDA, (nice link) I can’t imagine you as a pirate, :FUNNY: I have white lithium grease , white paint, I’ll even try the sharpie, and with all my girls around they might be able to find some lipstick.
Plan B in the works , I purchased another 336 gearbox for insurance. 😃
Dakazman
-
Funny you mention lipstick. MANY years ago, I remember reading an article about sportsmanship at the SCCA Runoffs and one guy helped setup a rear end with lipstick late at night because there was nothing else. IIRC, it worked for the race at least!
You’re right, I’m no pirate! Alas, I lost my parrot (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZw35VUBdzo).
-
Let me guess. Your favourite Gear is "ARRR"
-
ARRR-right then, going back to serious side, this is what my pattern looks like now . I’m reading it as to far in and the differential side needs to loosened and the other side tightened one nut flange at a time to put the pattern more in center?
I’ll stand down until I get confirmation on that.. ???
JB is correct again, locking down one output shaft and turning the other is a much better way to turn the ring and pinion. Also much easier when you have a spare drive yoke .
Dakazman
-
It's hard to say for sure from pictures.
In the first two, does the pattern go right to the root (bottom) of the tooth?
Is it also going off the heel (outer edge) of the tooth?
The bottom photos definitely show it going right to the toe (inner edge).
What's your backlash reading?
-
https://www.canadawideparts.com/downloads/dana_tooth_pattern.pdf
-
I like my contact areas to be central on the tooth between the top and the root but a slight bias towards the toe as high loads will cause the contact area to move a bit toward the heel.
-
Its definitely on top toe,(Pic 2) (per chart towards center of ring.) Heel being the outer side.
I'm using the dana chart, face milling ( pic 1). Backlash now at .005-.006
I cleaned gears again and now you can see a better transfer of the prussian blue. Coast side of gear is perfect (pic 3)
dakazman
-
To me the coast pattern shows a little too much toward the toe. I can't see a discernible drive pattern. Bear in mind you're looking at the real thing and I'm interpreting a photo. A clearer photo of the drive pattern would be helpful for me.
-
JB , Still working on the gearbox and will have some more pics soon. I’m finalizing some details on another gearbox and should have that one as a guide to compare the readings and feel .
Crossflow update:?
My order for the extended M10 came in and I quickly cleared the last block head bolt hole. Now, as you stated the M12 holes need to be tapped out. That extended bit is on its way. I don’t have a clue why this M10 helicoil was down there. I removed all the M12 7/16 dia bolts and kept in order. The debris , old threads could have been from stacked helicoil inserts. See pics.
Another milestone this week was unrelated to the Europa, the weather broke for a day with temps in the 70s’ . I was able to set final adjustments to my valves on the corvette motor. Sweat and oil on your glasses is never a good time to do anything. a Zz4 crate motor that has been a nightmare since I purchased it during the GM restructuring. It now is better than new and a nice ride around town.😅
Dakazman
-
That's not a helicoil. That's thread that has broken away.
-
Time for a helicoil!
-
I thought it might have been that causing this to happen. Luckily it was on the top threads . After retapping with the m12 . I’ll count the number of good threads.
Dakazman
-
While waiting for the machinist... seat assembly to start tomorrow as I laid out the pieces and started final cutting of the foam. The forming will have to wait for tomorrow as it has rained and the foam makes a mess when sanded and clean up would be impossible. I had to break out the old coverings to copy the process used to assemble. It all starts with a single rivet.
Dakazman
-
The seats take time to upholster. I glad I save the old covering . Up to plan C but happy with its look.
I had some help from doc5k on Instagram with some pics that showed the folding sequence. In the front bolsters.
Dakazman
-
Doing upholstery!! Good for you! You're a braver man than I am!
-
How is the vinyl attached to the steel frame?
-
Turbo,
Rivets ! Just like the leather, but more of them. I may add aluminum strips along edges.
BDA, I’ll try anything!
Dakazman
-
Moving forward 😃
The seats are coming out relatively decent. I riveted the vinyl fabric using dimpled washer upside down to hold the fabric to frame then pulled and stretched moderately and using aluminum strips riveted in place. I’m probably just going to use 2” Velcro to hold in the center seat cushions.
I need to sew up a small line in the front section and then onto the headrest pad covering. I had some suggestions to make that removable due to easier to drive with a helmet.
Dakazman
-
Nice work, braver than me doing upholstery! I could do with making a couple of cantrails and repair/upholster my centre console but I guess as long there's spannering to do I'll keep putting it off........
-
Looking good. Fun to learn new skills. Bonus being able to say that you did it yourself
-
Thanks guys , it’s been tough not having access to a brake and shear, saving $400.00 per seat doesn’t hurt much either when you do the work yourself. I can certainly put that into other parts.
Which I did !
A new to me gearbox and tc bell housing in route . I also picked up a excellent crossflow head.
Another project that I’m taking on is forming a stainless steel rocker cover to run over the rivet line under doors.
Dakazman
-
When it rains it pours .
Many parts arrived this week, gaskets, 336-66 gearbox with bell housing. the machinist finished up most of my parts. With breaking out my sewing skills and surprising myself with the outcome I have just the headrest and seat backs to cover.
The gearbox needs some deep cleaning and I need to do some reading on the differences of a 336/56 and a 336/66 both 4spds but the shifter linkage may be different. I did find an article about the lash being set at .005 max . I’m eager to see the wear pattern on this differential.
The tc bell housing will expand my choice of engine. Now being able to think about a zetec conversion.
Not in the near future.
The pistons and rods are back now for both the crossflow and wedge. The wedge will be assembled as soon as I can and be done by next week and with satisfactory progress on the gearbox installed back in the frame. 😅 :pirate:
Keep you updated!
Dakazman
-
Great stuff, D'man! Are you doing cloth inserts on the seats? They are looking good!
-
That’s a microfiber. It’s In a lot of new cars . It cleans up and vacuums very easily.
Thanks BDA
-
AFAIK, only the Lotus version of the 336 will result in 4 forward gears. The Renault versions will give 4 reverse gears when installed in a Europa. R16 transaxles go the wrong way. R17, R18 and Fuego transaxles go the right way.
-
JB,
I heard of that , the reason for buying the package deal was to obtain the bell housing.
I haven’t gone thru it yet to see what parts can be cross utilized. Lol the axle nuts alone were 1/5 the cost.
The differential, axles, bearings, primary shaft , synchro’s...maybe? Just guessing but wouldn’t the gears be able to be transferred for the proper rotation 4 forward, 1 reverse?
Dakazman
-
Everything except the ring and pinion should be useable... maybe the speedo-gear might be different, not sure.
-
That’s a microfiber. It’s In a lot of new cars . It cleans up and vacuums very easily.
Thanks BDA
That does look really good, adds a real touch of class
-
Thanks Broadside.
The last piece of the puzzle . Need to final cut 5/8 larger and pin together so my wifey can sew it up.
Dakazman
-
Everything except the ring and pinion should be useable... maybe the speedo-gear might be different, not sure.
JB , I was reading and old thread on TC bell housing, grumblebuns had several pics of a 336/ 352 and a NG3 . I shot him a PM to see what his 336 suffix was . It was indeed a 336/66 with a TC housing on it . Talk about a shot in the dark. The manual does not show or at least I haven’t seen a ref to it.
Dakazman
-
Good news!
-
Back on track. 😀
My 821 is having a water test tonight on the liners.
So far no leaks. Tomorrow rods/ cam / timing gear . It fells so good to finally continue on the engine.
Pistons installed and move easily, now that all the rings are the correct size.
Gearbox waiting patiently for final adjustments and comparison with another gearbox.
Happy Thanksgiving 🦃 Stay safe .
Dakazman
-
Did you check your liner protrusion?
-
Check JB 👍.
Debating weather to install the stock cam or the mild street due to the lower compression pistons. I don’t want a real slug. I believe the original pistons in that 821-30 were flat.
No leakage throughout the night.
Lifters in head already also.
Dakazman
-
Debating weather to install the stock cam or the mild street due to the lower compression pistons. I don’t want a real slug.
62HP from a stocker should be plenty, D'man. ;D
-
😂in my stories it will have 162 HP . :FUNNY:
I put in the mild cam all ready.
The crossflow will make up the HP soon. Maybe even a zetec . I just want to make some noise and preferably not a bang.
Dakazman
-
The mild street cam is a good choice.
-
Today my 79mm ring set came in for the crossflow 👍👍
However the m12 x1.5 extended shaft tap does not fit in any block. All head bolts are m11 x 1.5
So I ordered another tap, and will let you know the outcome. So what I think happened is the PO installed a 7/16 20 instead of a 14.
Dakazman
-
Great on the rings, bummer on the tap!
-
I ran across a cross section of the block with how the holes are designed in a Renault manual showing the top section being larger than the threaded section. No harm in waiting. Also the tensioner is hard to find . It has two different size pads and the larger seems only to be sold in the UK.
I forgot to add that the 821 is turning freely with pistons, cam timing chain and tensioner installed.
Waiting on a front seal on timing cover. (Dec2) then the head is ready to go. Then gearbox and install.
Tomorrow if I can get away before wife’s bday I’ll try to set up the gearbox. I’m sure that’s not going to happen but I can try.
Dakazman
-
However the m12 x1.5 extended shaft tap does not fit in any block. All head bolts are m11 x 1.5
So I ordered another tap, and will let you know the outcome. So what I think happened is the PO installed a 7/16 20 instead of a 14.
Dave,
There's something weird here.
Can you do a process of elimination?
Try a 821 head bolt in your cross flow block and vice versa.
The bolts should thread into either block.
-
Yes they do Galvin.
According to the bolt gauge it’s a 7/16 x 1.5 tpi . The gauge does not have an independent M11
Once I get the correct tap I can determine the depth of the damage in that cavity. (Hole) and order the correct helicoil insert or other manufacturer of inserts.
I’ll post some pics a little later .
-
Galvin go on my Instagram and check out my backlash videos on the two gearboxes.
If anyone else wants to comment see ,”Christine.Kaczmarek.71”. on Instagram.
What do you think?
Dakazman
-
Hey Dave,
Please abandon imperial measurements when dealing with metric stuff. It hurts my head. ;D
It's an M12 bolt, not 7/16 inch.
As such, there can be no "TPI" - threads per inch.
Metric fasteners are specified by their nominal diameter and the distance between adjacent threads.
The bolt we're dealing with is 12mm diameter with 1.5 thread pitch. That is, the distance between threads is 1.5mm.
OK, now if the bolts which we've both compared and measured to be nominally 12mm, and they fit in either block, what exactly is the issue?
Something else going on, methinks.
Is the 12mm tap you bought 1.5mm pitch or the more common 1.75mm?
I'd be wary of running an 11mm tap into those holes for fear of damage.
Does anyone even make an 11mm bolt?
Sorry, I don't have an Instagram account . . hurrumph.
Put them on YouTube?
-
Galvin,
Thanks for the TPI lesson.👍
Check out the pics.
1. Tap 12m x 1.5
2. M12 tap in hole.
3.Head bolts
4. Head bolt in proper hole 7/16 or m11 according to conversion table.
5. Head bolt in M12 hole (very loose)
6 head Bolt with 11 marking 🤷🏼♂️
7 wedge bolts marked 12 thread into holes of all blocks , in 7/16 m11
The M12 does not thread into any of my 3 blocks.
Dakazman
-
1. Tap 12m x 1.5
Cool, the tap appears to be correct.
4. Head bolt in proper hole 7/16 or m11 according to conversion table.
"I'm sorry Dave, I can't let you do that” (said in my best HAL 9000 voice) :))
7 wedge bolts marked 12 thread into holes of all blocks , in 7/16 m11
"I'm sorry Dave, I can't let you do that” :))
The M12 does not thread into any of my 3 blocks.
Let's do process of elimination:
Drill a 10.7mm hole in a piece of scrap ally, steel or whatever and tap a thread with the 12mm x 1.5.
See if the head bolts screw into that.
-
Most hardware stores have internal and external thread gauges. I don’t know if they get that big but it might be worth a try if your tap doesn’t match.
I’m with Gavin. I can’t imagine a scenario where a Renault engine would have English threads. In fact the bolt heads you show are metric. Rather than use a plastic bolt gauge (I have one too that I almost never use), I would measure the diameter of the threaded section and use a metric thread gauge (like you get with a tap set to figure out what you need.
Something I don’t think was mentioned yet is that where English thread pitches are in threads per inch, metric thread pitch is I mm per thread.
-
Yes they do Galvin.
According to the bolt gauge it’s a 7/16 x 1.5 tpi . The gauge does not have an independent M11
Once I get the correct tap I can determine the depth of the damage in that cavity. (Hole) and order the correct helicoil insert or other manufacturer of inserts.
I’ll post some pics a little later .
I've had much better luck with Keensert than Helicoils.
Keensert is a solid threaded sleeve that is swaged into place while roll-forming the internal thread in the final step, much stronger.
In fact a DSR racer I used to know "Repaired" every thread of his KZ1000 engines using the Keensert method before an engine ever went into the car.
A bit more expensive, but so is a Lotus!
-
Thanks Richard,
that’s the name I was looking for. I also believe they have a higher torque rating.
I’ll see what my machinist says! He definitely has done more in his career than I have.
Galvin, and. BDA I have some specialty shops close by and grainier about 20 miles away. I can go there . Below is a cross section of the holes, the m12 tap only goes down to the tapered section and they do not go any further.
Here is the German Renault manual I have on PDF comparing 807/810/ 843/697/841 models. I wish I could read German because this book is payed out very well.
Dakazman
-
Dave,
Yep, your pics in the German manual show different bolt lengths for the wedge head.
Please follow the process of elimination and drill / tap that 12 x 1.5 hole in a piece of scrap.
You've confirmed an 821 head bolt screws into your cross flow block and vice versa.
If a head bolt screws into the test piece, you'll have further confirmed that the bolts screw into the test piece as well.
As such, all bolts, block holes are the same and that they're 12 x 1.5.
Therefor, the 12 x 1.5 tap should fit the block holes.
Please check me against reality because the concern I see is:
1. You say the 12 x 1.5 tap doesn't fit.
2. On page 80, you show a piece of damaged thread as noted by JB and also talk about an "extended M10".
3. On page 80, you also say you've "quickly cleared the last block head bolt hole"
Was the "M10" a typo?
What happened there?
-
No typo , but I could have been clearer!
When I first disassembled the engine the threads in that hole came out with the bolt and I wrote I may have to place a stud it that hole. That was three years ago .
When I said I cleared the hole I meant I drilled an undersized hole thru the , “debris” then with the M10 tap slowly removed more of the material, the threads pictured. I only cleared hole to get to the bottom and matched it with the other holes. The M10 was used in all the other holes to lift out tons of crap that was jammed under all the bolts.
Going step by step , the depth of the hole was discovered.
That’s when I took JBs advice and ordered the M12. The M10 just got me started. The M11 I just ordered is an uncommon size but is going step by step . It will lightly ream out the threads that I’m hope are still undamaged.
I appreciate all your advice and will try your method. As far as I know is what the gauges are telling me and slowly moving forward to order the correct anchor if needed.
Dave
-
Ahhh . . . I must have missed the part where there was lots of crud in the holes.
I'd still be wary of using an M11 tap to clear it out.
Because M11 is so undersize, there's a very real chance it'll cut into the existing threads and damage them without you even knowing.
On occasion when I've needed to chase threads, I've used an old bolt with slits cut into the threads to resemble a crude tap. This lacks any real cutting power but is sufficient to clear crud from the threads.
-
With all the festivities this week. I managed to get some time in the garage. My 336-56 gearbox is setup correctly backlash at .006-.007 . I guess it should be strapped down to get a perfect reading. Pull check at about 1.5n .
The 336/66 gear pattern was nicely centered on the gears, however it’s original lash was in excess of .024 . The pull test was under 1n . The adjustment nuts were easy to turn . I’ll take a small miracle...
I’ll be replacing the seals on it so I left everything as it was until the seals come in.
Galvin, I listens to your instructions and drilled a 27/64 hole in a 2x4 clear thru. Then used the M12 tap thru the entire hole . I was surprised it did a nice job inscribing the threads . Then I grabbed the long head bolt and threaded it into the hole. Even though it grabs slightly , the bolt wobbles about an 1” when threaded 1 1/2 “ into wood base. It was worth a try and I would have been rude to not have given it a go. I’ll keep you posted when the M11 arrives.
Dakazman
-
With my Holiday chores completed, I’m ready to proceed with the assembly of my original motor with a few modifications. Today will be timing cover , oil pan, fill cam valley with oil and install head.
Found a pic of an R8 with a similar mod, then to make it all fit and as BDA says make some noise. 😃
Dakazman
-
Looks good, D’man! You are going to polish the bolt heads, aren’t you? :)
-
BDA, the bolts were nickel plated prior for the 843 cover . The covers are different per the crossflow has shorter bolts. I installed as many as I had on hand but some were longer and were for brackets of some sort.
Oil pan on , tomorrow is another day. I can concentrate on the head without constant interruptions.
Dakazman
-
That cover is SHINY!!
-
That cover is SHINY!!
:confused: Did you expect anything else from D'man? :FUNNY:
-
Dropping some of the polishing due to it not lasting even with clear oats. That cover was polished for the crossflow but until I sort out the head bolt threads it went to the back burner along with the wedge engine line bore. I did get one crossflow head back from machinist and another still getting a little overhaul.
So now it’s up to the original motor to come alive with some mods. Valves are stock sizes, cam is modded, pistons are low compression but hopefully I can get it to sputter a tune. I managed to get the head on and started fitting the intake and headers to the head. I will wrap them soon. The starter and A/C compressor will be at the same level and will have plenty to spare . The compressor will have to be removed to get the starter out but , oh well!😃
It really should be on the road!
Dakazman
-
Looking good Dave. I expect on the road by spring........ :beerchug:
-
Too bad about the polishing... Still, it looks like it will look great when it's done!
-
Certified,
Feels like old times! Spring is doable if the gearbox doesn’t leak and the engine runs. Most other parts are finished or purchased. Tomorrow I should be able to put the engine and gearbox back in, weather permitting. Lol, 65 f is to cold.🥶 After I get it back in the AC compressor bracket needs to be fabricated before I drop the body on.
BDA, it’s only a little dull . The timing cover was polished 8 months ago and not coated, the block is coated and looks ok but not really brilliant. I’m going to try another sealer others have mentioned on the all ready polished other block and heads.
The unsealed parts still look good but after they get wet they spot . They do clean right back up. The polished cast iron intake started Rusting under the sealer that’s why it’s now painted gold.
Dakazman
-
65 degrees?
65 degrees!
When it gets 65 degrees up here, we all run around outside naked!
-
No way! It’s amazing how your blood thins out. When I worked at airports in EWR and JFK -40 with a wind chill off the ocean that would make you question your chosen profession. This morning it’s 44 f even my dog doesn’t want to go out. It will heat up to 60 f today
And 75 again by Wednesday. 😃
Getting older doesn’t help much either. I admire you guys up there that work on your cars even in a closed heated garage. Probably after shoveling snow, collecting firewood and keeping the fireplace going. Then getting up to a frozen car to go to work and smile at work.
Merry Christmas Guys!🎅🏼
PS, 🧑🏻🎄🧑🏻🎄wife wants more Christmas light up today so with my afternoon nap I may not have time to drop the motor in .
Dakazman
-
Meh . . . middle of the night here . . . that's about 73°F.
-
I can agree with John. Doing yard work in long sleved shit and jeans. 25 degrees f or -5 c.
Best of the season to you and all of your family Dave.
Sandy
-
65 degrees?
65 degrees!
When it gets 65 degrees up here, we all run around outside naked!
You live in an interesting neighborhood, JB!
-
Good thing there are no pictures in this case.
-
65 degrees?
65 degrees!
When it gets 65 degrees up here, we all run around outside naked!
You live in an interesting neighborhood, JB!
Not far from here, we have a totally NUDE beach to frolic. "Playlinda" right on NASA property.
There might be some spying going on but its not at the Cape :FUNNY:
Gavin, Its your summer time down there correct? I guess its hard for the kids to believe in a Santa sleigh,
nevermind , Frosty the Snowman.
Good one Sandy
Dakazman
-
I didn’t get it in today but , it is ready for tomorrow. There were a few snags along the way with trimming the intake and header assembly. Why does it seem the easy job take forever. Still working on the gap (clearance) between the two. Going for about a1/16”.
Then when joining the engine and gearbox I forgot to use my motorcycle stand for the engine and just use a rolling platform to lower the engine on . What a dumb move. 😂 luckily I can still curl 70 pounds.
Then I went one step further and remounted the crossflow on the engine stand. The question will be what crankshaft to use on it. A short shaft with no pulley or another Extended crank. Waiting on the taps still.
Dakazman
-
Dave, I've got my wedge engine mounted on a stand in almost the same your crossflow block is mounted. The only problem is that that the stand interferes with the camshaft bearing housing, which you haven't fitted on that block yet. I was just wondering if anybody has a good solution to that problem?
-
If you center the crankshaft bore with the pivotal point on the stand everything will be okay.
If yours is interfering it may be to low in the rotation. The cam comes in from the front side , timing case .
Dakazman
-
Your engine stand is a little different to mine. I guess I could cut a little bit of the excess metal from the end of the engine mount arm. That might just do the trick. Thanks!
-
You could also just drop it over to the next lower mount hole which would be the upper gearbox hole.
Dakazman
-
A traditional rotating engine stand makes life easier if you're doing a cast iron V8.
I now use this for Renault engine assembly and it should fit on a workshop trolly.
It's easy enough to flip a light ally block over for the few times you actually need to do that.
I'm toying with adding some legs for when the sump is attached.
-
Gavin, Its your summer time down there correct? I guess its hard for the kids to believe in a Santa sleigh,
nevermind , Frosty the Snowman.
Yes, it's getting on for summer here.
Most people just carry on and pretend there's snow and stuff.
We also do 'Christmas in July' which has caught on in recent years . . still no snow in most places, though.
-
That’s about the same color snow we have. Great pic👍
I was going to mount the motor that way but it was all ready set up for the back position.
The transition from the stand to the gearbox addition process , then back to the hoist is where I loose time. The stand pictured below seems perfect for that process. It looks ready to lift & install.
Dakazman
-
:pirate: :beerchug:
It’s a roller. Rotating the back tire turns the engine easily this time.
Dakazman
-
Alright, D'man!!! :beerchug:
-
Woohoo!! :beerchug:
-
Gavin, Its your summer time down there correct? I guess its hard for the kids to believe in a Santa sleigh,
nevermind , Frosty the Snowman.
Yes, it's getting on for summer here.
Most people just carry on and pretend there's snow and stuff.
We also do 'Christmas in July' which has caught on in recent years . . still no snow in most places, though.
That does it! I'm moving to Australia!!
-
Moving along. RD headers look great and easily fell in place. I’ll be wrapping them shortly. Playing around with a VW stinger exhaust look 😂. See pics
Then I determined the A/C compressor will fit easily on the distributor side and has sufficient mounting holes in the block to hold a bracket which I’ll fabricate.
Dakazman
-
:pirate: :pirate: :pirate:
I just like the happy dance!
The head bolt thread dilemma is now over . My M11x1.5 extended tap came in . Matches perfectly with the threads and diameter of the bolts . The bolt markings of 11 and 129 can be seen on the head bolts from two different engines.
Happy to say both the 821 and the 843 hole cavities are the same M11
The hole that was in question tapped out perfectly with the same amount of turns from bottom to free the hole.
Christmas miracles! 🙏🙏
Dakazman
-
Yippee!! :pirate: :pirate: :beerchug:
-
now I can get back to polishing stuff. :FUNNY:
I did ask Nick for a crankshaft so I can put A/C pulley on the crossflow.
Dakazman
-
now I can get back to polishing stuff. :FUNNY:
Do you polish the threads on all the bolts before you install them? 😉
-
Silver ,
NO, just run them thru the wire brush and the nickel plate the heads. They must be clean and the holes clean as well or what good would torque value be. adding a anti seize compound would also change that value. I'm using silver goop on the threads and shafts to help preserve the bolts.
Dakazman
-
Another little mod will bring the heater lines from front to back of engine . I’ll need to weld up the rack and mounts . I’m thinking about adding the fuel line to the rack for better routing. Hmmm ,🤔what did I get for Christmas .😂
Dakazman
-
I finally had the time to make the bracket for the A/C compressor . I still need to get the rotation correct and maybe beef it up a bit , but for a first try I think it will be satisfactory. If anyone can see a problem , please call it out. Clearance are tight but without cutting the frame, nbr 3&4 plug wire ( need 90) or shifter issues it’s working.
Dakazman
-
Busy week here as I expect everyone else is also. So a brief update.
The crossflow head was installed with some old gaskets and even though the the tap ran true the torque would not hold in two holes. So inserts (M11) to be installed .
Double checked the header/ intake manifold and matched the surfaces of the two . While matching
I made a template of the, start / route / and end of header so I can duplicate the header for the crossflow at a later time.
Still playing around with a belt size and a lower bracket for the compressor but that’s minor.
I’ll be fitting a larger alternator a bit later which will be needed over this 40 amp version. It’s fun routing all the other items and cleaning up the appearance.
Dakazman
-
The crossflow head was installed with some old gaskets and even though the the tap ran true the torque would not hold in two holes. So inserts (M11) to be installed .
"the torque would not hold in two holes" ?
Dave,
If you've found the thread in the block to be M11 x 1.5 and not M12 x 1.5, I'm going to be surprised, not to mention soundly educated! . . and I'll need to apologise, too.
You are then fully authorised to get that penguin .gif and smack me upside the head. :)
Seriously though, I'd love to be educated.
Did you drill that hole in a piece of steel or ally and thread it with your M11 tap?
Does a head bolt thread into it?
P.S. The hollow dowel in the block looks to be beaten up a little.
-
Hi Gavin,
I need to purchase some dowel material or find a vendor. I need a day to shop at an old hardware store that is like a hoarder house only slightly more organized. It’s fun times and you haggle everything. It’s fun !
I did that test in wood, going to do it again in some 1/4”steel plate that I m using as a base for header plate. So stay tuned 👍. I’m not in any way trying to educate you , I’m the novice. These engines are 50 years old and who knows who worked on them
You just got me thinking, how about I head and rocker assembly back on and continue to torque the bolt . It sounded like slippage or threads ripping out. If it pulls out the helicoil setup drill is only going to clear those remaining anyway. I’m probably going to use those other inserts but can’t remember there name offhand.
Dave
-
Back again Gavin,
I was going to fabricate this spacer for the carb and thought it would be a perfect piece to tap an M12 and an M11 x 1.5 holes. Then I inserted the head bolts for two different engines.
M11 is what they are.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSPofbLgYAc
Dakazman
-
Hi Dave,
Many thanks for all that - I am indeed educated.
Apologies if it seemed I like was pressuring you. I had visions of you installing M11 helicoils and then having to take them out for M12 inserts.
It's often the case that only the person who gets into the weeds finds out what is really going on.
Kudos for that. :beerchug:
-
Gavin, absolutely not, I’m glad you questioned me. Those inserts and tools are expensive. Buying two different sets even more. I’m glad you stuck with me through the weeds. This is what we’re here for.
I allmost finished that 3/4 “ spacer for base of carb that I’m been putting off. I combined it with grinding the header base which is never fun.
Dakazman
-
Many of you have help me beyond my expectations. This web site is the easiest to follow. Some sites just use email and I feel I miss half the question or answers. . I like that other members suggest to move on and I get it .
This year I will take , Dolly off her perch . One last item to do is to add the frames pedal assembly to the frame. I can weld it , bolt it or use hy-loc’s I rather use the bolt in or the HY-LOC’S to secure the new panel . See pic.
Another delay why am putting off the body reunification to frame is an engine run. I’m waiting on delivery info on a newly purchased intake and carb setup that may need some of my TLC .😉. See pic
In the meantime , I cleaned up a TC bell housing for another project down the road. In which I’ll be testing some aluminum polished covering suggested by another member awhile back,” Everbrite”.
Till next week,
Dakazman
-
That is one shiny bell housing!! :))
-
It was just a little fun playing around with it , the flywheel diameter was what hit me first. The housing was just heavily sanded but cleaned up all the corrosion and pitting. I have to be careful since it is much thinner than a s2 housing.
I loved my Ford Focus SVT engine back when. 😉
Dakazman
-
Dolly is missing!🤗😛
-
Reunited after 25 years! :trophy: :trophy: :trophy:
Now instead of floundering around I can attack it on all fronts. Happy New Year Everyone!
Dakazman
-
WOW!! Look at that! You are cooking with gas now! :beerchug: :beerchug: :beerchug:
-
Congrats Dave. Long process. Looks fantastic. Great step forward.
Sandy
-
Looking good! :trophy:
-
Wahoo! Congrats Dave :trophy:
Happy New Year!
-
Congratulations!
-
Well done, Dave.
Looks like 2021 is starting out fine. ;D
-
Thanks to you all for your support and guidance.
A Special Thanks to Lou , Polly needed to come down. I kept putting it off but you made me realize the items I need to finish can be finished with the body on.
Now you’re all going to have to put up with me jumping around 😂😂
Dave
-
Well done, what a great start for the New Year.
From the way that looks, 2021 is going to be epic. Keep posting !
Brian
-
What a milestone to start off the new year!http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/Smileys/default/beerchug.gif. Congratulations.
-
It was hard fought but I got it down.
WOW is this low.
Your head just above a motorcycle seat.😂
Dakazman
-
Brilliant. Test drive next weekend?
-
Lol 😂
It will go faster but not that fast . Waiting on a different intake and a Weber carb. I can jump from job to job to keep things moving along . most of the parts are rebuilt already . Dragged out my harness board today, I cat believe I haven’t had time to get to it . I also rearranged my garage so I can access both sides of the Europa.
Dakazman
-
WOW is this low.
Your head just above a motorcycle seat.😂
hmmm, that high eh ? there's something wrong, you've not jacked up the suspension a la Starsky & Hutch Torino have you ? :)
-
Europa TC,
I have air shocks in the ElCamino but they are full down. More ELKY pics here . http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=2526.0
I expect the Europa to drop down a little more as I add parts. Pushing it around is amazing, it’s lighter than my riding lawnmower 😂. I think I’m catching on to the , “simplify, then add lightness”
philosophy. WTS , Wow , how LIGHT.
Dakazman
-
Congratulations on another milestone. The best part of driving a Europa in my opinion is the steering, which is sublime. Push on!
-
This is what building anything is about, friends to share your goal.
-
Fuel tank installed and a TC fuel cap . At least I can’t leave it at the pump station.
My hat is off to members how installed it with a firewall in place. 👏👏
Dakazman
-
Another long awaited milestone ..A/C system install progress.
My compressor bracket fabricated with 1/8 L Channel was flexing a bit so I’ll make another with 1/4 L channel. Adding a small swivel feature to tighten the belt. A small clearance issue with th topside of the firewall was easily remedied by shifting to topside inward 1/4” .
I elected to install the evaporator assembly under dash where the heater is home. The heater is out and all the water hoses to it. I purchased an electric heater / demister that will be installed behind dash.
The supplied unit will be disassembled and modified of course. TheAC vents will live in the center console in place of the ashtray. Well that’s the plan anyway. The condenser placement is still in question.
Dakazman
-
I'm interested in the electric heater / demister to replace the stock unit, D'man.
Got any thoughts on brands, issues, fitting, suitability etc?
-
The idea of an electric heater is cute. I'm also interested in how you're doing that, please post up some more info of what you've got and how it's going in.
I have no intention of driving my car in icy weather these days but having a screen that demists quickly sounds like something I would want anyway. I've never been convinced about the OEM set-up, it does work but I remember plenty of mornings where I had to wait on the driveway for it to clear before moving.
Brian
-
Gavin and Brian,
I ordered a 1200btu unit , coming in on the 15th. I’ll do some test it my corvette to see what it can do . I ordered off eBay and it’s very small 5x5x21/2.
Time to reverse engineer the under dash unit an utilized the pieces as best I can. First was dissection,
Next reassemble and fit in place. Then finish look and placement. Joining layout will come soon but it’s in place and all behind dash.
Dakazman
-
1200 BTU! That seems like a lot for such a small cabin! Is that the smallest you could get?
-
BDA, I could have gone for an 800btu. Better to be able turn it down than have not enough. Remember I freeze at anything under 65f. 🥶🥶
They both had the same amperage rating, and came with some ducting.
DC 12V 800W Portable Car Dual Heating Heater Cooling Fan Defroster Demister US
https://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-12V-800W-Portable-Car-Dual-Heating-Heater-Cooling-Fan-Defroster-Demister-US-/254467443569
Dakazman
-
Oh that is brilliant, I never even realised such things existed. I found exactly the same the 800w model on Ebay UK and to be honest I am very, very tempted.
When it arrives I'd be grateful for any comments you have on the unit because I reckon I'm going to get something like that myself. In fact the only reason I haven't bought it this morning is that it just looks to good (cheap) to be true !
Brian
-
My thought exactly on the price. It should also decreases weight . The stock heater weighs 8.66 pounds . No hot leaks in cabin, no cable pulls and piping in ngine compartment.
I’ll keep you posted. If I take out my DB10 it will fit there.
Dakazman
-
Is the stock alternator etc. up to the task of running it?
-
Thanks, Dave.
That unit looks much more compact than I'd imagined.
Like Brian, I also look forward to you thoughts when you get it installed.
Need to figure out how to get some ducting to work with the screen vents and the side cabin vents like the stock set up.
-
Measuring the current draw for the car is the best way to ensure the alternator has sufficient output for all of the vehicle’s electrical demands. I’m going to upgrade the stock alternator anyway.
Fully charge the batteries before beginning. Partially charged batteries will result in inaccurate readings.
Attach a clamp-on ammeter around negative battery cables.
Turn on all accessories, including the heater, defroster blower fan, lights, wipers, radio, video monitor system, stop flashers and warning lights.
Take and record a reading.
Record the amperage draw of the special needs lift if the bus has one. While the lift is going up, take a reading and record it. Keep in mind the amperage draw may vary depending on the type of lift being used and its age.
Record a reading with engine on, high RPM and accessories off.
Calculate the recommended alternator amperage rating by adding all the readings together and then multiplying that total by 1.2. As a rule of thumb, the total vehicle amperage demands should be 20 to 30 percent under your alternator’s rated output.
Gavin, I sure will , . Separating the three air sources is going to get a little tricky. The normal blower received a lotus Elise blower with much higher CFM. The heater will go to the demister vents and dump into cabin , non ducted . The ac will have two directional vents in the center console . Tying the evaporator box to the dash vents may get “T” in.
Dakazman
-
I'd be concerned about the flames shooting out in every picture!
:-)
800w translates into roughly 65 amps. If that's a steady draw, not just a transient high, that's a lot. You will also need a larger battery and much thicker wires for that kind of steady load. You're in Florida, right? You're fitting AC IIRC. What not just use an evaporator with a built in heater coil?
-
I don't think you need a resistance heater at all. The air conditioning system you're installing is a heat pump that can relatively easily be made to run in reverse, i.e. to pump heat into the cabin instead of out, if you add a reversing valve. In the moderately cool weather you might experience in Florida a heat pump would be more efficient than any resistance heater, and you'd save on weight and complexity of the whole system. I'm sure I heard of someone fitting an under dash unit from Vintage Air into a Europa to provide both heating and cooling.
-
Good one JB , I was a little worried about that also but I hope it meant high heat lol. You were correct it wouldn’t fit BTW, if I had a firewall in place .
I’m just building off a system that is sold as a kit. I thought it might be a faster route. My harness is still on my build board awaiting larger wire size , extras wires too . Layout is what I’m going for now. I’ll be posting some pics of two condenser locations soon. One location that’s not in front or the rear
with easy routing of the hoses . Let me know what you think.
Gideon,
I’ll look into that . The system didn’t even have a receiver /dryer or hoses . Adapters yes,
Now that you mention it , the ac / heat trucks we converted very easily but I forgot the process.
I’m running down many paths right now. Sometimes the smallest eats up the day.
Dakazman
-
There are some details on this thread
https://groups.io/g/LotusEuropa/topic/48232141#132410
and the corresponding photos are here
https://groups.io/g/LotusEuropa/album?id=157214
-
800w translates into roughly 65 amps.
Hmmm . . in that case there's probably enough heat coming off the wiring. ;)
-
Ok we will have to wait an see if the flames come forth. For 28 bucks I’ll fry some hot dogs.
Worked on the windows today and all most finished but I started drinking some beers with friends.
Maybe I’ll finish up tomorrow. I used countersunk wood screw in place of rivets.
I believe this would be a good choice for the condenser location along with an extract fan , will be shut off from engine compartment and ducted from bottom of car. Thoughts?
Two other fans will extract engine compartment heat near tailpipe.
Dakazman
-
That’s pretty much how I did mine. It worked well. I just wish I had thought of that before I modified my pop rivet gun to try to get down in that window channel!
-
While finishing up installing the side windows I stood back and took in the similarities in these two.
Lol , Scary
-
They do look similar but you can easily tell the difference. The pickup truck has the junk in the back and a bigger back window. :FUNNY:
-
Hey those are hidden treasures, like the rear luggage compartment, dashboard , carpeting.. etc under those blankets. The windows were on the hood. 😂🤪
Lol 😂
Dakazman
-
Received the 1200W heater yesterday. So today I soldered the battery type clips to the unit .
At a cold 58 f temp outside 🥶, I placed the unit in my corvette, since the battery is just behind the drivers seat I hooked it up. 5 minutes later temp in compartment was 65 f . It has a 35 amp draw constant and a smell of a space heater. Hopefully that will go away.
negatives was that the fan cfm as extremely low. The circuit breaker type on off switch will have to go. The unit itself stayed cool to the touch on all sides after the 5 minutes of use.
It however should work well here in Florida .JEGS has a heater unit 20,000 btu for $164. Usd
More to come.
Dakazman
-
Work progressing slowly but steady. Door windows and motors in and tested. :FUNNY: JB, your voice saying don’t lean on doors came every 5 minutes.
A/C compressor bracket plan B coming along. Beefed it up a bit.
Evaporator fitted under dash, center console vents added , working on swivel points. Sorry BDA, no ashtray.
Original dash being used for placement only is pictured, no radio on my dash. Now just some ducting and control placement.
Still waiting on my Hermès intake with 45 Weber . Dragged out the wiring board and mounted it to a wall so I’ll start all the repairs and mods soon.
Dakazman
-
It's starting to get real, isn't it D'man! :beerchug:
-
Still waiting on my Hermès intake with 45 Weber .
Dakazman
which head, early square port 697, late square port 821 or round port at the end of the non crossflow run in 1982 or 3 ?
-
BDA , Love turning wrenches but planning my next move is bewildering. Trying not to second guess myself. Keeping it true to it’s original look as much as possible.
MRN IJ ,
Square port wedge head 821. Running with RD Headers. Another friend on Instagram is running the same intake . See pics
Dakazman
-
Needed to make some modifications to the electric heater assembly . I want to shrink it down a bit more and increase the flow . The Fan must go and I’ll utilize the upgraded cabin fan assembly which will free up some space in the housing. The control circuit breaker at least in its current location with a suitable control assembly replacement. I’ll probably just use it as a demister. Here are a few pics on the internals.
-
I’ll probably just use it as a demister.
Do you need to have a variable control as a 1.2 kw heater on the screen may crack it or send the laninate milky
-
Thanks MRN,
I doubt this is a true 1200 BTU. Heater, however I will continue to test. I hardly is hot enough to burn my fingers as does my 1500 w 120 v heat gun. That would melt everything in sight.
Progress continues with a two hour job of putting on the e-brake control arm and cable... it somehow got routed incorrectly when just in frame . When I took it off to install the body it no way wanted to get hooked up again. Worked it ou and now all good.
Another was to mount the brake MC pedal bracket that I took off to drop the body. I left one bolt in place into backup plate and it aligned semi easily.
I’m now searching for three 2 1/2” gate valves to control airflow from the front boot, which I’m using as a mixing chamber for cabin air. Breaking into three categories, heat, AC, and vent with a single fan.
Dakazman
-
Making progress on a few items, but the one item completed is the A/C vent louvers cutouts and mounts. Still need to paint the hole edges and do some final trimming. When shut it looks like two ashtrays. Lol.
My plan b , AC compressor bracket all welded up and ready for final trimming.
Brake MC bracket installed with MC ... now to add the new lines.
Waiting on the intake manifold shipping date, but looking on the bright side I’m focusing on a lot of small jobs instead of starting the engine. Which I need to install some engine mount bolts ... I hate shopping.
-
Good stuff D’man! :beerchug:
-
I need some measurements of the seat assembly in the forward and aft position from window glass in the aft position and from door jamb lock assembly forward. No need to be exact, ballpark 1/2” .
Another measurement is the thickness of the crash pad from above gauges.. again to the nearest 1/8”.
It’s been arts and crafts week and little wrenching. Cardboard templates to help guide my cuts.
Heater cut and reconstructed to suit . I’ll need to fabricate something or just weld it up in it’s original housing.
It seems this week keeps pulling me in ten directions. It’s one battle at a time. I would have added the bolt selection from Lowe’s that had nothing I needed. At least with the pictures I can shop from home next time.
Dakazman
-
Great stuff, D’man! You go, boy! :beerchug:
-
Nice. Where is the condensor mounted?
-
Turbo, inside the engine compartment, right side unused fuel tank area. Plan is to vent to trailing arm area with forced fan air. Receiver dryer will be there also . Lines to evaporator will run thru and into door rocker, up , aft of front wheel,..into cabin, near vent and into front boot to connect to evaporator.
Air into the box area ,.. undetermined at this time.
Dakazman
-
Nice! Makes sense now.....I have a fuel tank in that spot ::)
-
Our S1 French lister also ran the cooled air from the back to the front. He reported significant air warming due to the long ducting through the body.
Why not duct the AC air directly into the rear of the cabin? Much shorter run.
-
Our S1 French lister also ran the cooled air from the back to the front. He reported significant air warming due to the long ducting through the body.
Why not duct the AC air directly into the rear of the cabin? Much shorter run.
My short answer, air in your face, using the airflow all ready designed in .
Rear flow! I thought of that, ducting ac air above your head or into doors . Once I install the bonnet and turn on fan I’ll get a better idea of total airflow , maybe even with windscreen 😃
I tried to not lose the storage area, and loosing the spare. This way I keep the car looking original. Less the ashtray.🥱😉
I found my same unit installed like this . See pic.
Dakazman
-
I designed mine to save the front luggage compartment as well. Thought long and hard about the rear but twin tanks, fire suppression and a large bottom-sucking, air box eliminated that option. So I, reluctantly, tossed the spare. I keep an emergency flat kit in the back with an air pump and sealer. Bit of a limp-home mode. I also went with mini-van tires so replacements should be readily available pretty much anywhere.
-
There are a lot of trade offs . I’ll probably find more along the way..
I studied your build and like it very much.
Pfreen also has a nicely set up system. I found that with the crankshaft driven pulley that is on our cars,why the manufacturer notched the frame. If I elect to do that the belt going to the compressor will sit behind the firewall in it’s original location. Being higher on the engine brings the compressor pulley approximately 1/2 inch into cabin. That’s another work in progress but I’ll figure something out on that panel.
Another thought is to bleed hot air from front radiator or condenser for heat , other than reverse the cycle.
Dakazman
-
Arts and crafts today along with some fine tuning.
I thought I could handle building some louvers for the the ac system without much trouble but found it easier to just cut it out and design and place back in .
My bracket for the compressor, plan C where I’ll change the fulcrum point to adjust the belt tension better and place it lower on the engine. Lower is good, less interference with the firewall, but to low hits frame.
Bracket swivels made to find the exact point to adjust the belt.
Pictures of the routing of the ac hose access to rocker panel and Babcock into cabin and up to bonnet area.
Another location to settle on is the windscreen washer .
Anyone have a dimension on the crash pad? I’m getting ready to glass it over since ordering one from the UK put it over my limit. 199euro, but with 250 shipping...wtf.
Dakazman
Dakazman
-
Who were you buying the crashpad from, Banks? $250 shipping is not normal, I hope. I have been buying parts recently from England and it was nowhere near that much.
-
Hi Paul , I had to do some digging but it was from Paul Matty back in October 23, 2020
Price was L150. Plus VAT and like I said shipping which was more than the part due to the size.
Still cannot find the attachment but I’ll keep looking.
I believe SJS has a pad also , so I have some options, I’ll also check with banks.
Dakazman
-
English VAT?
I trust they weren't charging you VAT when exporting.
-
Mine came from banks. It is made from fiberglass There are a number of articles people have written describing installation. They sell the vinyl cover as well.
-
Arts and crafts today along with some fine tuning.
I thought I could handle building some louvers for the the ac system without much trouble but found it easier to just cut it out and design and place back in .
My bracket for the compressor, plan C where I’ll change the fulcrum point to adjust the belt tension better and place it lower on the engine. Lower is good, less interference with the firewall, but to low hits frame.
Bracket swivels made to find the exact point to adjust the belt.
Pictures of the routing of the ac hose access to rocker panel and Babcock into cabin and up to bonnet area.
Another location to settle on is the windscreen washer .
Anyone have a dimension on the crash pad? I’m getting ready to glass it over since ordering one from the UK put it over my limit. 199euro, but with 250 shipping...wtf.
Dakazman
Dakazman
What dimension do you need? my crash pad is in the spare room upstairs (although my vernier is in my workshop up the road ::))
-
Just a rough top to bottom in center a side view version. A ruler would work close enough.
Dakazman
-
I'm going to check with Banks, in the mean time I'll glass over the original, just to see how it will turn out. I just need to trim it and sand down the foam covering a bit.
I read this article from golden gate.
Dakazman
-
Good luck with your crash pad, D'man!
FYI, the link in your post goes to a place on your computer. I don't think that's what you want.
-
Thanks BDA for checking that , I keep one computer isolated.
Dakazman
-
Ac louvers back in , I just need to glass in other side . Then a mount for drier.
Dakazman
-
Where are you putting the louvers?
-
The systems condenser and receiver/dryer will be in the right fuel tank area, vented to the trailing arm area. The car never had a tank in that location. It will also be boxed in and have a fan on condenser until I do some airflow test.
Dakazman
-
The BOSS SAYS,
See pic,
Dakazman
-
This is a Japanese business doing an electric A/C system among other items.
There's a guy on the FB page that has one installed.
No affiliation on my part.
http://www.firesports.co.jp/lotusparts/products/
-
Wow!!! Banks style door hinges for £90 (US$122) /door - I just paid £148/door for mine :confused: I wonder where mine were made.??
In all fairness - by the time you add shipping and possibly duties, there probably will not be much in it. :))
-
Just a little progress report ,
These are the smaller jobs that got knocked out. Front close out panel cut out and will be installed with those push-pins from hell 😂 lol
The 3rd pic is my firewall mil spec fire retardant liner cut to fit .
Next pic is a mount bracket for an air filter in front on the fan input. I tested the flow with the bonnet on last week and was extremely happy with the flow of air into cabin area.
The support hangers are going in for the metal tubing which will hold up the ceiling fabric.
A/C section, I just painted and fabricated a bracket for the receiver dryer. I’ll have to go shopping for the hose material and a few fittings.
I’m a little slow in getting my welder up and running and it involved me changing out the circuit breaker panel. 🤪
Dakazman
-
Moving along , fan blower test worked out well . Now just finding out where to cut thru dash and build ducting. Added a inlet grill over cutouts and will have to come up with a design on the cuts . Any suggestions?
Added a squirrel and rodent screen on the inside of the condenser mount . Now ready to install.
My harness board went up after a year of being buried in my garage I’ll start changing out wires. I sent back a 100amp alternator that was supposed to fit but didn’t due to no aft mounting hole bracket.
My headliner rod holders are in and now I get to have the pleasure of climbing inside and working on things and figuring out placement of other items . I have a sore back already!
Dakazman
Dakazman
-
It looks like you're making some good progress! :beerchug:
That wiring harness looks like a beast! I hope it'll be easier than it looks!
-
It’s not that bad , one wire at a time will be checked, measured, and documented as I go along. Then I can add all that information it to the schematic .
Wires will be added into the harness for ac, washer, relays, and fuse box holder. I will use all lotus wiring identification. I still need to get the print laminated on poster board. 🤷🏼♂️
I try to keep it easy for , “the next guy to work on it. “ 😀
Dakazman
-
Added another tool today since some deals I made are stagnant. I had to return a alternator and still waiting on a hermes intake manifold.
My good news is the addition of some much needed agron gas. 😂
Dakazman
-
You going to weld stainless?
-
Hi JB , The plan is just for mild steel and aluminum. I purchased a sheet of 3003, .080 to practice on. Stainless needs a mixture of helium. I can buy a smaller bottle mixture for that, but with this lockdown stuff the company I deal with had none to rent. Airgas is a good supplier.
Why I was there I picked up some 3/32 sticks for welding thin steel. I gave away a stick welder years ago that was really old and sucked up a lot of power. This new welder works pretty well on 120.
The biggest problem I had so far is adjusting the auto darkening face shield.
Dakazman
-
I'm just MIGing and I use a gas mix for steel and argon for SS.
-
JB , I’ll take all the tips you can give. I’m going through the operators manual and just running thru all the steps that I used to learn oxy/ayc. , with butt , lap and t welds. Just lately with un-shielded flux core wire feed. Lots of time to play around and get proficient at it.
Dakazman
-
We used straight Argon to TIG weld all metals in the Air Force (even the titanium on the SR-71 :welder:)
-
Myself I'd go for tips from TurboForce...
-
We used straight Argon to TIG weld all metals in the Air Force (even the titanium on the SR-71 :welder:)
Yep, exactly that, great advice.
Although there are plenty of gas mixes available which give you tweaks on how it welds, plain simple argon does pretty much everything. If you're a DIY guy then rather than keep CO2 or whatever for steel, mixes for stainless and Argon for Al & other alloys you can get away very happily with one bottle of argon.
The downside is that you spend a few pennies more welding carbon steel, maybe a penny or two more on stainless but you have one bottle that does the lot. Although to be honest if I'm using carbon steel it's usually thick enough to arc weld and when I've done car bodywork I prefer flux cored MIG - no need to worry about gas shielding.
Brian
-
BTW Dave, I recently got a mig (first one) and found there is a big difference in the weld quality and ease of welding with different flux core wire manufacturers. I am now using Blue Demon .030" dia wire it is by far the best I have tried.
-
Good to know Pfreen,
I found it easier to weld items when I ground it to a makeshift table of brake discs (2ea ) that I put the welder grd clamps on and steady the part being welded with other c’ clamps.
My usage of my welder is limited due to I need to get spend time advancing progress on the entire car. The immediate use would be my plan c, a/c bracket. Looking at plan D, adding a third pulley, basically just a bearing that would bend the belt slightly so the belt would fit behind firewall and not have to cut frame notch.
Another job is to weld on my pedal assembly mounting plate, or just bolt or use hylocs on it. 🤷🏼♂️
Dakazman
-
I am learning quickly since I am fixing the Tiger's rust, frame and bad previous body work. Sheet metal butt welding is challenging.
-
Especially when rust is near... 🥴🥱 Well you’re ahead of me on that with mig . It will be a first in just a few days , I can’t wait!
Dave
-
I am learning quickly since I am fixing the Tiger's rust, frame and bad previous body work. Sheet metal butt welding is challenging.
off topic - whenever I've welded up car bodywork in the past I've normally used a joggler tool to put a very small flange on the repair panel so it lies flush and then you're doing a backed weld. The tool I have puts somewhere between 3/8" & 1/2" lap but you can trim this to whatever you feel after making it. Most tools also have a 5mm punch on them so you can punch a hole to make "spot" welds if you can't use the backed weld option.
If you've not used one before it's worth looking at. For example I used the flange option replacing wheel arches on the last car I did (MR2 Mk1) and the spot weld option for doing the sills. The spot weld gives a very neat finish, looks OEM and more importantly is very easy to do with MIG !
Brian
-
Hi, just thought I would share some of my info, I am restoring an old airplane(pic included) and am amazed how many aircraft nuts/bolts an fittings are used on my europa, if you
really get stuck on finding a bolt go to áircaft spruce catalog. I have attached a pic of plane from 4 years ago, it is almost finished now, lots of hours into it already. Mike.
-
You are very lucky to have a good PO! Not many people would go through the trouble of measuring bolt grip lengths. I did so I have an appreciation for what that entails, but I’ll let whoever buys my car decide whether I am a good PO or not. :)
I know you’re not finished with your plane yet , but I’ll congratulate you now. I can believe it was a big undertaking!
-
Mike, nice project . I hope you also fly . What fun is it just to build. I soloed after 14 hours but gave it up when 9/11 closed our air park. ☹️ A friend of mine built several Rv 4, and I was looking into the Christian eagle.
Well getting back to trying to finish, I spent the day on arts and crafts. Going back to fiberglass work on some ducting. Sanded and formed my crashpad and fitted some of the original plastic to get the thickness correct. I’m going to glass over this unit and use it as a mold.
Sandman, working on those grills also. Another project was it front bonnet interior catch leaking water into the cabin area and rusting out the heater. I used a aluminum block and cut a valley into it and since it’s solid , no water problem.
My headliner rails were also hung today, I’ll be sore for the next few days. 😂👍👍
Dakazman
-
Making crash pad from scratch?
-
Turbo , no that’s the original padding covered with a thin foam. Sanded and formed to coat with glass.
I’ll use it to make a mold then send it out to ,” Just dashes “ in California or try my hang at covering it with leather.
Dakazman
-
Looks good so far!
-
Checking the operation and fit of the ducting , not pictured, will be to add a flex tube to the two side vents in dash . The airflow test from the fan unit was equal to that of a modern car. . If I went with a radio I would have had to adjust the water catch angle better but still doable. Another addition will be a close out planet to clean up the area and create a area for a drop down door for the electrics .
Dakazman
-
A long awaited day arrived with a package from Ultimaguy . My intake and Weber 40DCOE 8 carb.
As usual I had to clean it up a bit. Yes it’s shiny. Roscco gave me a lead on parts supplier on the Weber. Rebuilding will be a first , so I’ll have a few questions about this subject.
Just seeing what’s involved so far is to modify
the routing of waterline .
I also trimmed the header assembly to accommodate the intake flanges, nothing excessive. The thickness of the two needed a little tweak. Then I’ll wrap the header and fit a muffler.
Dakazman
-
wow, you've been busy polishing that!!! I found that my Else one is very badly matched to carb so I'm going to have to blend that in before final fit
-
Thanks, it took about 4 hrs total time . I should have had it done sooner but I sodablasted it before sanding . Sanding with a 36 grit on a high speed grinder. Then I used a course file to all the high point and seems . Then hitting it again with the grinder. Back to a medium file using cross and draw fileing.
The rest was stepping up sand with 80 / 120/ 220 / 400/ 600 . Then take it to a bench grinder with a polishing wheel 6-8” will do green rouge This will polish it up and show the scratches. With that said you can do this step after the 120 grit just to see where to sand out with a heavier grit if needed.
Spray it with high heat clear afterwards.
Dakazman
-
Today I worked on my first Weber DCOE carb . It is an amazing carb, so adaptable and the fact is was built years ago amazed me. While tearing into it and watching YouTube videos I said this was one one the cleanest interior carbs I’ve ever rebuilt. I documented the jet sizes, mixture screw turns , and choke size. I did find some damage to the tip of one tube . Pic below. Some parts needed are some screws and the throttle bracket assembly and that tip of course.
Ross answered some of my questions about blocked holes on the intake side and the huge 1/2” hole used as vent or overflow of the float chamber.
If anyone has some ideas of tuning it to a stock , low compression engine with a mild cam or just keeping it setup this way , please comment.
Thanks
Dakazman
-
Good job cleaning up your carb!
Brass spindles are very fragile. They are prone to twisting. Newer models were upgraded to steel spindles but replacing them is nontrivial because you have to drill a hole in the new spindle for the accelerator pump (IIRC) and the butterfly screws are staked. Be very careful with them and make sure they are straight.
On newer models, the plate between the the two throats has large hole in the center, about 3/8”. Somehow, it keeps fuel from leaking out there. You might consider modifying you’d.
-
Thanks BDA,
Several videos mentioned the screws being staked and will be on my parts list to buy.
It looks like the tip 11.5 on an f2 tube can be replaced. I have not tried to in screw it, but why would there be a hex nut pattern on it.
On newer models, the plate between the the two throats has large hole in the center, about 3/8”. Somehow, it keeps fuel from leaking out there. You might consider modifying you’d.
I’m not following you here , but I’ll look into it at the Weber supply site JB mentioned a way back.
I was also notified that I need a mechanical advance on my distributor.
More to research.
Dakazman
-
The hex bits are main jets. The size is 115. It is a push fit, no thread. The hex is to allow you to twist the jet to facilitate removal.
-
The plate I’m talking about is shown in your last picture between the throats. I don’t pretend to understand why the hole works, or even that it does. I’m just passing information I received when I was having a fuel drip and it seemed to work. It is a fact that new plates have the hole.
-
Aughh, I understand now JB, that why BDA mentioned their brittleness .
I questioned the two small holes below the adjustment screws being sealed off. I still have some disassembly to do but I’ll wait for the parts to come in, hopefully it will have some detailed instructions.
I’m copying a friends car in a way but he recommended a 45 DOCE. I have yet to find his valve cover.
He also helped explain the water line cuts necessary.
Dakazman
-
Just be slightly wary of jet sizes as stamped on them, as it's not uncommon for engine tuners/dyno operators to drill out jets to suit and also to re-solder and re-drill. Always best to check with gauges if you can.
-
Broadside,
Thanks your statement is echoed in many tutorials I have watched .
BDA
You are correct the plate is now the same for old and new type 40 DOCE carbs . See pic
Finished up polishing the intake manifold and getting the fit right inside the header plate . This will be the third time posting this with some tutorials, service manuals and tuning guide , so please excuse this shortened post. Please read the tutorial I post next , as a novice, expert or racing enthusiasts it has everything for all .
Dakazman
-
Service manual:
https://240260280.com/Tech/Carbs/Weber/docs/Weber/Weber%20DCOE%20Service%20Manual.pdf
Dakazman
-
Tuning manual:
https://240260280.com/Tech/Carbs/Weber/docs/Weber/WeberTuning%20Manual%201985.pdf
Dakazman
-
Finally the Weber tutorial
https://240260280.com/Tech/Carbs/Weber/DCOE%20Theory%20Operation%20and%20Tuning.html
Dakazman
-
Weber and Dellorto parts:
https://www.carbparts.eu/exploded_view
Dakazman
-
Pierce Manifolds is a good source of parts.
-
Switching gears here a bit and decided to copy the layout and routing of the wedge engine headers to the crossflow engine. Having the head plate all ready cut I opened the box of pipes and started slicing and dicing. Going quite well I decided to post some pics . A lot of welding to do tomorrow but it is nice to have a plan for future upgrades.
Dakazman
-
Best of luck on your header journey, D'man!!
-
Finished the head plate but still playing around with the 843 crossflow oval to round transitions . For the head to pipe the 1 1/2 “ round also need to be stretched to maintain dimension smoother.
Profiles all cut !😀. Time to weld up! I’ll just practice a little more 😂😂😂 with different setups
To produce the cleanest, strongest weld.
Dakazman
-
Twenty different directions, a much needed wash to rid the body from aluminum and fiberglass dust before the granddaughter started to draw smiley faces on it.
Crashpad coming out nicely and see a easy duplication process.
Another mod is my alternator bracket to accommodate a SBC 100 amp alternator from a block of aluminum
Dakazman
-
Found an interesting point on lotus talk about the forward bonnet catch assembly leaking water into cabin area over heater assembly.
NOT GOOD! I’m going to run an electric demister so I modified the catch . Wish I had a CNC , but chisels and files worked on a block of aluminum. Notched out and countersunk threaded screws, topped off with a nice gasket under the plate.
Hopefully that will end that.
My block of aluminum for alternator still on the sidelines until the new alternator arrives. This will also allow me to transfer it over to a crossflow and block off the water passage.
Dakazman
-
I though I was the only chisel and file machinist here! I have to say you are a lot more adventurous than I am!! Please be sure to post what you do to that block of aluminum!!
-
Absolutely BDA,
I was going to send the plans to Chuck Nukem since I believe he has a CNC machine. Not sure how many people would like a 110 amp SBC single wire alternator on their crossflow or wedge.
It will look more like a block but all ready it’s lighter.
Dakazman
-
On the leak at the bonnet lock into the heater, the TC has a rubber seal to solve that one. The picture on my parts manual is poor but it's #16 on the diagram.
(and now probably scarcer than the gold plated ashtrays.....)
Brian
-
I didn’t check the availability of that rubber gasket although it was discussed. I thought it easier to install a single item with no washers and nuts inside. Once installed you can forget about changing out a rubber membrane. Once again I have the utmost respect for members who work on their car alone.
With the windscreen in there are many two man jobs.
I also introduced three vents in the same area that water may enter, however it will flow into the evaporator drainage tray and exit the two drain tubes that were incorporated into the under dash unit.
Dakazman
-
Nice day for some arts and crafts before the weather gets to hot. Crashpad coming along
formed in the mounting flange to centerline of dash. Just needs to be centered and glassed to crashpad. Happy to say I kept the weight off ..see pics I’ll need to get the wife to sew up some leather to be glued on .
Another project is my lower stainless steel rocker covers that I cut to the shape of the rivet line.
Still need to bend in a slight bead line.
Waiting on an alternator on Monday and a Weber rebuild kit April 29🥱😪
Dakazman
-
Doing what I can in a certain block of time. I received my alternator and a block of aluminum.
All drilled out now for just a little forming to fit both the wedge and crossflow head and seal off the water jacket. Best part it’s chromed. 😂
Some other progress with the crashpad also. Working on the symmetry of both side curved sections.
A little more progress with my headers and headliner but nothing to post on it yet.
Dakazman
-
Learned another difference in the crossflow head while fabricating a alternator bracket.
While reducing its profile and comparing it to a wedge head and reducing its weight all was going fine until I went to install the Weber intake manifold. One mounting hole was different , needing the head intake side flange ground down and shaved. Then drilled a hole in the intake manifold inboard of the hole that was there.
I had some success, one, it will block off the water jacket and mount to both wedge and crossflow head and it’s weight is below the stock bracket weight. It will need a plug below one hole that is threaded, I missed it ,🥱😡because it was on my finished head that was in a plastic bag.
Dakazman
-
Just about there😅
Still need a rear brace on the alternator but that will be a plate with two holes in it and the belt adjustment bracket needs a extension.
Tested another intake on the crossflow (single Weber downdraft) and it fit with no problems
I can still cut out a few more grams to get the piece below 500 grams .
Now to get back to the header and compressor bracket, crashpad, headliner, etc.🤪
Dakazman
-
Crashpad almost complete 😅. final cuts on vent holes and trim to within 1/2 inch of windscreen, then to get covered in leather.
Sandy, soon I’ll get started with those vent covers I started months ago. I got sidetracked watching a video on the crashpad and another Europa member made one out of aluminum. I really looked good.
Dakazman
-
That’s looking good! :beerchug:
Are you going to cover it?
-
8)
-
Thanks guys,
BDA,
Yes, I’ll give it a try. Pfreen gave me some encouragement, his wife sewed it up his pad with a nice top stitch. I may have to ask my neighbors wife to sew it or buy my wife a new machine that puts longer stitches in.
BTW , the headers are really coming along nicely and I’m getting use to the welder. The seeing what I’m welding is better now that I go out in full sun. Not a summer job down here.
Dakazman
-
[...] The seeing what I’m welding is better now that I go out in full sun.
Careful welding outside. The slightest breeze will blow the gas away.
I've used a flood light trained on the general area before.
I'm presuming you're using an auto-darkening helmet?
-
Yes I am using a auto darkening helmet. I will try a floodlight, but I’m not using gas yet, Trying out the flux core .030 . Lots of cleaning afterwards. Going to try the solid core with gas today 👍 and will use the floodlight.
Dakazman
-
Tried the argon gas today with solid core , seems like it needs that co2 to penetrate deeper.
This is where I’m at 😜.
Gavin , the gas made it worse to see anything it wasn’t as bright. The specs on the helmet at 10 setting say to go above 130 , which is to hot for the thickness of the pipe. cleanup though was very easy.
Dakazman
-
That looks like a great start! :beerchug:
-
Hi Dave,
Looking good.
Hmmm . . not sure re the gas. Do you mean you tried pure Argon?
My MIG only uses solid wire as it was acquired before flux core came about.
The most common MIG gas used here is Argon/CO2 75/25 and that always seemed to work for the non-expert me.
My primary requirement was for 1/16" wall thickness exhaust tubing and to achieve a full penetration weld.
I've not used flux core wire but from what I've seen, it seems to offer better penetration but with some spatter.
My thinking would be that penetration won't be an issue for any MIG on 1/16" wall tubing.
I usually use the thinner option wire for this tubing - 0.6mm (.030").
Did you change polarity to accommodate the solid wire?
The visibility thing is a common issue I reckon . . and my eyes are old, so that doesn't help.
I strived for some time till I realised the stock shade as fitted to my helmet was too dark. I speculated either TIG was the assumed usage spec. or the manufacturer erred on the safe side.
How did the flood light go? That was always better for me.
Then again, you get used to the lower light. It's a bit like the back seat of the car at the drive-in back in '68 . . still a struggle but with less squealing.
-
To both you guys, if you haven't already tried a "cheater lens" then you ought to give it a go. Basically it's a plastic magnifier that goes behind the mask and you can get 2x, 3x, etc. I think mine is 2x which definitely helps older eyes !
eg - https://www.weldingsuppliesdirect.co.uk/welding-supplies/helmet-spares/2-0-diopter-futuris-welding-helmet-magnifier-cheater-lens.html?gclid=CjwKCAjwjbCDBhAwEiwAiudByzQ2PmH4_c9SBcvQtkc1QhzPANZDjnpn-o5-Pg0IOxlpFK9I-n2LwhoCLIAQAvD_BwE (https://www.weldingsuppliesdirect.co.uk/welding-supplies/helmet-spares/2-0-diopter-futuris-welding-helmet-magnifier-cheater-lens.html?gclid=CjwKCAjwjbCDBhAwEiwAiudByzQ2PmH4_c9SBcvQtkc1QhzPANZDjnpn-o5-Pg0IOxlpFK9I-n2LwhoCLIAQAvD_BwE)
I don't do much MIG these days but if it's steel then I tend to use flux cored. It's remarkably easy to weld on thin car bodywork, you can do it outside or with the garage open and not worry about losing the shielding gas. If you've not tried it before, it's certainly worth giving it a go.
Brian
-
Thanks Brian ,
That’s what I need. Found myself all most putting my nose in the way.
Gavin 😂, Drive-in’s, Backseat, squealing ... 😂👍👍
Yes , full argon ! Don’t do it . Weld . Com agrees. Since I don’t have a a mixed bottle yet I’ll be going back to flux core .030 . I also picked up some.035 to try. Floodlight did work a little but I kept getting in the way. It would work if the weld were flat and not rounded.
Just as a joke I thought of beefing up the t section. See pic😂😂😂
Dakazman
-
Took a day off to be with my grandson. Talk was limited to a lot of smiles but he found his favorite.
Dakazman
-
Great pic!
-
Great picture, D’man! And you should remember that that frame does not add lightness!
-
BDA,
It has lightening holes?
But REALLY, it seems that is how fat my welds look like with the flux core.... :FUNNY: after I clean them off it’s back to normal.
The timing may be wrong to learn something new , mig and tig , but I’m having fun!
Turbo, 1 year old an 26 lbs, he’ll be helping me soon.
Dakazman
-
lovely pic. reminds me when the weather is better to give the grandkids a ride in the lotus
-
Thanks, Brian. I'll have to get some cheater lenses.
I invested in an "Optivisor" recently and it's also brilliant.
Dave, I think your T section pic perhaps has some merit.
All those holes would make for easy camber changes.
-
Brian, put my order in after checking the size I needed. To my surprise there are mounts to side them in inside helmet. Just a newbi here. You can imagine how many times I wanted to light up the oxy/ace
To get some progress going.
Gavin, as soon as I saw that pic on a welding site with the oval stain that looks like the inspection hole on our frames I just laughed. Maybe a 4 wheeler Europa one day will pop up . We had a boat version.
Dakazman
-
After waiting for over a month for the Weber 40 rebuild kit to come in, it arrived just in the Nick of time . I am almost finished with the wedge head headers / crossflow fabrication. One last tube to weld up and then the collector. I also was thinking about cutting them off and mapping them to be reproduced. Not for me , it was a truely a labor intensive project. Lengths are almost identical to that of the wedge set
I can now swap out the Weber rebuild parts and gaskets and then wrap the wedge headers before installing the Master Plan set.
Dakazman
-
Nice work on those headers, D'man!
Where did you get your Weber rebuild kit that it took over a month to receive it?
-
Thanks BDA, the headers made me want to weld with my new welder. Can’t wait to try the tig .
Carb deal from the EU and on eBay, they have a good selection of parts and made sure that the SN was correct with this kit.. next time I’ll go with the express shipping. My fault , it was offered for an additional fee.
Dakazman
-
I haven't had any problems with Pierce Manifolds. Red Line is the US distributor and they are good too but Pierce seems geared more for the retail market. They seem to have a pretty complete compliment of tools, jets, kits, etc. And their shipping is a lot faster!
-
BDA, I’ll look those vendors. Other members, have listed other vendors . I need to start a list by chapters and insert in my parts manual. Note to self🥱😂
Brian and Gavin,
Thanks for that tip! Received my 175 cheaters 😀 and what a difference, I now follow the seam of the weld on rounded pipe. Now I can’t wait to weld some flat straight metal.
Another help was switching to a thicker flux core .035 instead of .030.. A different mfg of the wire also produced less slag and sparks to clean up afterwards, Thanks Paul.
Dakazman
-
what is a 175 cheater?
-
See . . all this time I thought you were putting up with poor lighting or had a too dark lens in your welding helmet!
Here's a vision aid for small fiddly things - an 'Optivisor'.
Seriously . . . I can now count the freckles on a caterpillars backside with these.
Make sure to get one with glass optics.
-
See pic Paul. I found it on EBay and I use it with my reading glasses Under helmet.
Gavin , I don’t think that would fit.
Dave
-
Gavin , I don’t think that would fit.
It's not meant to fit inside a welding helmet.
-
I’ll look into it and try to catch up on welding apparel. :welder:
Dakazman
-
With the header route duplicated, I have moved on to installing th wrap on the wedge headers and installed along with the intake manifold. I’ll need to cut return line to the swirl pot . If anyone has the dimensions of the cut required would be helpful.
I laid out another job for myself tomorrow, rebuilding the Weber carb with the kit that finally arrived. 😀 then I can order parts for fuel lines and throttle activation.
Electrical board is gathering spiderwebs but will soon be dealt with.
Crashpad needs some more tweaking before covering.
Brake lines need to be fabricated from the master cylinder to the front t section.
Pedal assembly and the plate to the t section installed.
Ac lines hoses fabricated and compressor final bracket installed.
A swirl pot made of scrap parts from an accumulator after I pick up a spool gun for welding aluminum and some 1.25 ,.059 aluminum tubes.
Adding the thread serk into the block have been tapped out but I still need to research where to set the depth in the cavity. If I set to the bottom of the hole I can use original bolts, new of course, or set at block height and use shorter bolts.
Galvin, I may take you up on that offer for some crossflow rocker assembly items.
So that’s my list.😜
Tools breaking 🤬 can’t win sometimes... at the most frustrating time with hard-to find parts made in China.
Dakazman
-
It looks like you’re really starting to make some headway, D’man!! :beerchug:
-
It took all day now the Weber 40 is rebuilt. I did not change out the throttle shaft bearings because the plates snap shut nicely and I did not order new screws for the plates. I added the vent hole on the plate as BDA suggested a month ago and was pictured on there sight. The gasket guided the hole location. It needs a few little items like a linkage arm and maybe a different fuel inlet. The trumpet side also needs a filter and the bits to hold them in.
I noticed two untapped bolt hole on the lower side of carb, has anyone used them to secure a heat shield.
Another shopping trip will be to find a silencer to fit under tray, or I’m open to a vendor. I have been saving a heat shield that will be perfect over it.
Dakazman
-
Heat shield: https://www.piercemanifolds.com/DCOE_DCO_HEAT_SHIELD_99003_015_p/99003.015.htm
Edit:
The brass throttle spindles are very fragile but replacing them seems very nontrivial since all spindles need to be drilled for the accelerator linkage arm. You should make positive that there is no twist in the spindle. Given the fragility of the brass spindles though, I would suggest you replace it with a new steel one and preclude that possibility in the future.
Edit again:
If you replace the spindle, I would advise replacing the spindle bearings with new sealed bearings. If you do, I would advise you to continue to use the leather seals.
-
40DCOE? That's fine when it's a pair of sidedrafts. Use a 45DCOE for a single sidedraft.
-
Thanks JB , Yep , a 40DOCE8 .
Another lotus Europa owner said the recommended the same thing and the Weber sight put it at just inside the cc usage . This came with the manifold so I’ll use it at least to start the car.
The Weber 40/45 service manual( See pic) listed the 8 for a 404 Peugeot and a Maserati 3500 GT, ( probably with 2 like you said) . 25 and 26 for Renault 8 Gordini which had 2?.
Hopefully it won’t be hard to swap out later down the road , at this point I just want it to get thing routed and make a little noise.
I’m still progressing on the crossflow, having the courage to drill out the stripped out head bolts 2ea.
and insert the insert. I have the head on , just with two bolts to check my clearances with the header I made.
BDA, thanks for the picture , I have enough material to make 2 .
Dakazman
-
Been dodging the much needed rainstorms but can do without the tornado threats. Working on a few combination brackets and heat shields.
First the carb shield, template made and drilled out, now to trim and bend up.
Went with a transverse muffler, “silencer” so I needed to fabricate a bracket/ heat shield to mount it on to fit under the rear boot, which it will. Thanks Rosco. I’ll still tweak it a bit more and add a top shield.
Dakazman
-
Looking good, D'man! I think I would be careful screwing your heat shield through the bottom cover because you'll add a potential leak path (if I understand what you're planning on doing). I would note that the venturi set screws are secured with a tabbed lock plate (it's probably just me but the lock plate on one of my screws didn't do it's job so I threw out the lock plates and used safety wire after that). Given that you'll have a fair amount of overhanging weight on those four little screws, you might want to use safety wire there too.
-
Oh no BDA. That was just to show the screws line up. I’m also thinking of using longer screws and adding stand-offs between plate and carb to add even more space between the two.
I should delete that pic .
However this is a better way to attach the two. See pic
Dakazman
-
That’s much better! :BEER3:
-
Nice work!
-
I completed 2 of the shields so I’m set for the next motor.
I went outside! ☠️ Found my way to a Midas shop so they could bend up a 2 “ pipe , sadly they did not have any pipe . I asked if they had any scrap pieces and showed the owner the length of pipe needed. She returned with a good 3 ft. Piece but again I was disappointed that they could not reproduce the pipe with the 180 degree bend , limit is 45 degrees. So I asked what I owed her and her answer was,” just take it”.
Wow...
I spent the next two days fabricating brackets and cutting the pipe up that did have 1 perfectly located bend for the lift I needed. My welding dramatically improved with the cheater lens and a pair of reading glasses with 3x magnification.
Two other tasks were worked on, the crashpad an an alternator bracket for belt tension.
Dakazman
-
You can buy mandrel bent pipe in a variety of angles. They even sell “donuts” and you can cut whatever angle of bend you need. Any hi-po shop would carry them.
-
You’re right JB , however there seems to be a shortage of muffler pipe . My normal supplier is on back order and even Midas muffler was out of stock on some sizes.
I’ll revisit it again later after I get the engine started and hear it. I may not like the Thrush muffler sound. After I wrap the pipe to help keep the heat from the boot tray it will be a good starting point for sound and heat norms. I also have the panel to block out the original wire screen which may increase the temp in the area. I’m not a fan of the muffler being in view but with a required license plate mounted right in front of it it will be less objectionable.
Dakazman
-
You could give the muffler a shot of matt black heat paint, D'man.
It'd pretty much disappear behind the rear mesh when you have the engine cover down.
-
That’s one way Gavin , and to save time, a very real possibility! I can live with it , however I did make a panel to block the exhaust fumes from coming back into the engine compartment, I just haven’t had time to cut in the exhaust hole and paint and clear coat.
I will paint and clear coat a few sections of the car and the nicks I put in working on it. That will take only a few days but I’ll continue to add and finish up the brake, fuel and AC lines.
The harness will have upgrades added on the board before installing in car . That is easier to do than craft in and out running individual wires.
Getting very excited that I can see a finish line.
Dakazman
-
A little further along today 😀. Alternator bracket complete and installed for the 100 amp unit.
Cut a hole in the rear panel instead of going with the original screen. Much better look!
Fabricated some standoffs for the heat shield that will be welded to the muffler then modified the shield to fit and removed all the dents in it . Tomorrow I’ll purchase two muffler clamps and I soon the two lower mount brackets that will be welded to the lower shield/ bracket.
Bent up a sacrificial plastic tube , bent to the shape of the return line so I can better visualize where to cut the stainless tubing.
-
If you don't watch out, D'man, you'll end up with a car soon! :beerchug:
-
BDA, did you see the lotus badge?
👍 or 👎
Dakazman
-
I saw it but it was hard to see where it was mounted. Is it on the alternator bracket? Makes no difference. A Lotus badge is pretty much good wherever you put it! I give it a thumbs up!
-
:lotus:
Integrated into the bracket. 😀
Thanks
Dave
-
I like it! :beerchug:
-
Looking good!
-
You will definitely need sunglasses to look at that engine compartment when it's out in the sun! 8)
-
Thanks guys! I really appreciate your comments.
There has been some talk about jacks on the groups IO msgs so with a half day to work on something
I decided to install my old GM Jack that was used on my minivan. It is heavy but very sturdy and it fits the lug nuts perfectly . It does not fit under the spare or to difficult to mount next to it up front.
I believe I came up with a unique location and easy to install and remove. I used a carriage bolt as a hanger under rear boot. See pics.
Dakazman
-
That's pretty clever, D'man!!! :beerchug:
-
Another step down the road after a few days of work and going from plan-A to plan-G.
I kept the original screen in place and secured in place , survey said screen. Not to worry though TC owners my full block out panel fits on the outside of the screen if I want to experiment with temps and airflow.
The bracket that holds the silencer is also the lower heat shield, approximately 1/8” steel. The top shield is mounted to the top of the silencer. The inlet and exhaust pipe going into the silencer are welded in place making the double elbow unit bolt up to RD’s header assembly easily.
Galvin, I decided not to paint the silencer to try to hide it .
Dakazman
-
The bracket that holds the silencer is also the lower heat shield, approximately 1/8” steel.
This is not permitted.
Please remake the bracket out of 1/16” steel and drill some whacking big holes in it in order to conform to the 'add lightness' rule. :FUNNY:
-
Duly noted Gavin . 👍👍 :welder: BTW I got spellcheck to stop spelling your name wrong 😑
At least for now it’s on the done list and I’m afraid to make a to-do list , thinking I must be crazy . Next one aluminum I promise, maybe a straight tube out , hell, I’m half deaf from jet noise anyway. Lightness is coming, along with new aluminum seat trays and smaller window motors ,etc..
Once I’m driving it more will change and I’ll be able to concentrate on one thing at a time.
Dakazman
-
Dave, WOW! She is coming along Beautifully. I to thought the window motors were as light as bowling balls. Please let us know if you can come up with a lighter option.
Sandy
-
That is an impressive amount of fabrication and welding - out of interest - what does it weigh.....???
-
That really is a nice piece, D'man! I can't help thinking that Chunky would have simplified it somehow though! :)
-
BTW I got spellcheck to stop spelling your name wrong 😑
Ha . . I sometimes wondered about that because I figured the spelling was right there.
I thought one of us (not necessarily you) might have developed dyslexia. :D
-
I do mostly everything from my phone and the spelling bar was just above the keyboard, and my fat fingers cannot get the number 1 half the time. Gavin is on that line when i hit the i .
Truely Sorry , I really should re-read everything.
Dilkis, I’ll weigh a sheet with the appropriate dimensions but I believe if weighed a good 3-5 lbs.
it’s always better to be overbuilt than have a failure and burn holes in things or melt paint off. I have a digital thermometer that I’ll take readings of the sections. I also have an extra IPhone that I’ll set up to see exactly where is the flow of air going.
BDA, Chucky would not be happy with plan A , neither was I . Other manufacturers allow for items that have dual usage as this piece does.
Sandy , I’m looking at a GMC motor that fits in the palm of you hand the three mounts were a bit off but the gearing looked similar. Modifications would be necessary.
Dakazman
-
The original window motors were from GM. This link gives more information: http://lotus-europa.com/data/xr1/r40.html
It looks like the motor you have is the same one Stuleslie used in this writeup: http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=3187.msg31956#msg31956
There is at least one other alternate motor discussed in that thread in case your motor doesn't work for you.
-
No worries, D'man.
I was never offended or anything like that.
-
Looking good, as ever.
I think you've answered one of my little dilema's too, I was hoping I could get straight out with my silencer but I think your photo shows the true reality!
-
Thanks broadside,
That was a question I was going to ask Europa owners with wedge engines with headers what and how they dealt with the rest of the system. Luckily Rosco mentioned the double 90. If anyone ran straight out what did you use and how loud is /was it.
Dakazman
-
The flexible Weber carb seal came in just in time to check clearance of the water pipe.
Thanks to members here and on Instagram :trophy: I received detailed instructions on how to proceed with the ,”Hermès HLR 681 performance kit upgrade “. Downloaded from lotus-Europa site , Hermès PFD.
Cutting the pipe in the exact location was very helpful and less stressful. I can’t believe doing this with firewall in place. I’ll pickup another hose at the parts store today for the additional elbow needed and some other mounting hardware. Stay tuned.
Dakazman
-
Thanks broadside,
That was a question I was going to ask Europa owners with wedge engines with headers what and how they dealt with the rest of the system. Luckily Rosco mentioned the double 90. If anyone ran straight out what did you use and how loud is /was it.
Dakazman
I actually have a quite small silencer that came with the car which would possibly fit in the straight out position. It looks a home made affair so I may just modify and try it, I've run the engine with it already and it seems pretty quite so I dont think noise would be an issue.
-
Looking good!
-
Broadside, glad to hear that , one day you should post a picture or post a video on Instagram, you tube . .
Thanks Turbo, 😀
Worked on the water pipe routing today and a few changes to the heat shield. The lower mounting nuts with the spring washers were extremely difficult to install so I had to elongate the slots and I went with shorter studs, ones that allow you to hang the nut on.
I found a perfect hose that really increased the space away from the header and angle joining to the forward pipe all for $7.
Dakazman
-
Wow!
100 Pages Dave! :pirate:
-
Looking great!
You know your using your GM jack. Where do you position it up front when jacking the front up? Does it fit under the car?
-
Lotusfanatic ,
Thank you ! I saw that last night. I didn’t think I was that long winded and thought about my earlier post in the members section dealing with the mechanical sections of the frame and engines . I really need to make up a index for it all a maybe lotus Joe can insert it in the front .
For a tiny car it sure has a lot of pieces .
Pete , yes it does fit under easily with approximately 2” to spare. It is only for emergency use. As JB stated , these cars are light. now that mine is getting back together I personally suggest never getting underneath without proper jacks. While working under mine, while still on the ground, tightened something and found myself holding the car in place with my other hand, while it tried to get away.
Some lotus owners say even when your tires have 0 psi the tires are still not flattened and can be driven home. They don’t even have a spare or Jack in a daily driver.
Dakazman
-
Finished up water line modifications and reinstalled manifold save for a few fine thread nuts that don’t want to go on the studs. Seems like a slightly different thread. The air box may also interfere a bit but I’m still looking for one to buy.
Started routing fuel lines, ( not using copper) they are for easily bending the route.I’ll also secure in place along it’s route. The tank outlet is 1/4 I.D. and the pump inlet and outlet is also 1/4” . Should I go with all way with 1/4 lines to the carb ? Anyone see any potential problems in the route? I’ll be bending up all steel lines.
Dakazman
-
Your coolant lines look pretty similar to how I've done mine :beerchug:
Is your heatshield just mounted off the bottom carb studs? I imagine that to be a tricky install, getting the nuts in.......
-
Yes it is , I just added that hose section above to push it further away . however I pulled the manifold off and attached the carb then replaced the manifold on the studs . It was never torqued just placed, much easier to attach carb with shield.
Dakazman
-
Keep the fuel lines as far as possible from heat (like the engine). As the carb gets roasted, it might be helpful to move the return line to right next to the carb to help the fuel in the line stay cool.
-
Thanks JB , absolutely. The line directly above the carb need to be turned 180 degrees sorry for the bad pic , I don’t cut off the excess of the copper lines only Mark the end points with marker. It’s on my list of things to buy along with linkage.
I was shopping for an air box for the Weber carb but wanted a filter part number to see if I can source it later, but that is a lost cause. I don’t want one that you can just clean and reinstall.
I did find a filter but it would barely go over the velocity stacks. The K&N may be a good candidate.
But if anyone has a number that works please chime in.
Dakazman
-
Fabricated a new pedal support plate and close out panel for the underside today . Also Devised a plan of attack on attaching the last two brake lines to master cylinder that I took off when I dropped the body on.
Welding it on tomorrow.
Dakazman
-
Pedals installed yesterday along with welding up the lower plate. With a spare tire installed there is not much room for the close-out panel and the sway bar... is this normal?
Took a little setback with the crashpad trying to , “fix-it” . Long story but it’s now fitting nicely and both sides are contoured correctly.
Today went a different direction, my garage layout was not working and I needed to play Tetris with tools, stands, and tool boxes. Even substituted the wife’s car in place of my El Camino for summer time parking.😎😂🖐
Dakazman
-
With a spare tire installed there is not much room for the close-out panel and the sway bar... is this normal?
It's hard to tell from the photo angle, it looks like your roll bar is very far forward. Although mine's a TC so they might be different, I don't know. But this is how my car looks...
Brian
-
With a spare tire installed there is not much room for the close-out panel and the sway bar... is this normal?
(i) It might be an optical illusion/photographic aberation, but is the centre section of your sway bar straight? It looks curved to me and I think it's supposed to be straight.
(ii) Do the drop links come straight down vertically from the top shock mount? The rubber bush on the sway bar to drop link should be on the wheel side of the pip on the sway bar. I can't tell as these aren't on the photo, though the very edge of the drop link is visible on the right and I can't see the pips. When I got my car my drop links were the wrong side of this and the drop links were not vertical, and it didn't have the closing plate.
Richard
-
Brian, Thanks for the picture, I have an s2 with a 15mm sway bar . Yours looks like the thicker version. My height measured 24.75 mm or 9 3/4”.
Richard, It definitely bows forward . The drop links move slightly with force on the sway bar even with new bushes. One side was inward more so than the other. It was heavily rusted and could now be undersized measuring 9/16” or 14.28 mm .
I also added a bend to help reinforce the new panel , but the panel is an exact duplicate of the original only lighter. It does fit but I would think it would have a bit more clearance.
Dakazman
-
After I installed the pedal assembly I’ve been pulling some old purchases and original parts off the shelves and make some sense of them. Accelerator pedal attach points of the cable and the choke cable with the new Weber .
Clutch cable bought several months back and packed away with the bracket. I pulled up the manual and some old post . It’s a work in progress because I also have a clutch slave cylinder and a master of some sort that was in one of the baskets of parts.
Brake lines , that I removed from a new master cylinder that was installed on the frame when fabricating the lines worked well. Removed the temporary lines when dropping the body on , today started fabricating line that run outboard of the master cylinder to the front of the t section. It wasn’t long before I realized that the wheel well area would have to be bent slightly and re-glassed.
Cut and bent glass to gain better access to the cylinder, then routed the two lines but since I started late in the day didn’t finish. So much for my , “ Get her done advice “
Tomorrow is another day and I’ll have plenty to finish up.
-
Brake lines all in .👍👍 Before reinstalling the master cylinder tank I started to repair the fiberglass first. Having brake fluid all over bare glass is not a good thing. The weather is also cooperating saying it the mid 80’s . Next few days going into to high 90’s , possibly hitting 100f . Glad to get most of the repairs done today. I left a few cut-out on the bottom to turn the b-nuts on the master that will be hidden by the tank.
Dakazman
-
Body repair completed, master cylinder will be installed tomorrow.
While doing fiberglass work I hit the crashpad hard, giving it symmetry and a nice snug fit while encasing the wood dash. Ready for primer.😃. Then instead of covering I’m just going to paint it!
If it fails, then I’ll cover it . 😜
I have one other task to complete on my El Camino and that to replace the exhaust system.
From headers back. Parts will be in on Thursday. The tailpipe is slightly larger than the Europa’s . 😂
-
Master cylinder mostly installed with only minor issues to complete. While making some modifications to my garage I found a perfect place for my wiring harness... backside of a roll around toolbox😃
Now I’ll have to complete the last major hurdle to finish.
The real job today turned my garage into a real man cave. The addition of a 65” tv.
It will also be hooked into the computer and the surround sound.
Another pic of my el Camino exhaust system pic.
A test of these vents into the A/C evaporator tomorrow but I’m glad to get this idea in motion.
Dakazman
-
Pretty nice, D’man! Nice to do your wrenching in a man cave!
-
BDA, thanks for the link to pierce manifolds . They have quite a selection of Weber parts and will place an order soon on the linkage and a banjo, I need one that comes in aft of the carb although straight in would work also. I was confused when I just couldn’t flip the 90 degree over . ( different diameters) .
The linkages , wow , the engineering department worked OT on some of them. 🤪.
My book is in the mail for the Weber book , after the pdf didnt have the details I wanted
Next year I will make Amelia island show, hope you had fun . The lotus win was encouraging.
Dakazman
-
I’m hoping we can get a group of us at Amelia Island. That would be really fun!
-
I Can’t wait for the fun again !
There are so many things to do and places to go . Hmmm 🤔 Dr Zeus?
Dave
-
After putting the brake master cylinder back on , woke up to this... arughhh
I think I have a hairline crack in the reservoir. I accidentally hit it with “dolly” a few months ago.
Well one step back...
Dakazman
-
woke up to this... arughhh
you mean the car was so excited to see you ? we had a puppy that used to do that...... :)
-
I had one of those pups. Lol.
Good thing for this blog, I know we talked about it months ago a I purchased it then. 🤷🏼♂️🥱
Dakazman
-
Gutted
-
Hi Pete,
Your complete car is gutted?
Well you’re in the right place to learn and people will answer your questions ASAP.
Start your own new topic so you will have a record of your work to reflect on... most important, post a lot of pictures as you go.
Dakazman
-
Found the problem with the brake mc leaking. I installed the wrong b-nut I needed a metric and I installed a standard. 🤷🏼♂️. Apparently I mixed up my orders so I called Moss motors where I purchased the mc and asked about the thread size and then backtracked from there.
Tomorrow I’ll try to install the assembly again but for now it’s holding fluid.
Another item all most complete is the fuel line. Waiting for heat shield wrap .
Water pump question… should I block off or cap , water pump heater line connections?
Dakazman
-
Since it’s 93f and the humidity makes it feel like 110f I took it easy and finished up installing the MC . Getting my BA to help pump brakes will be fun with no seats in the car. 😂😂😂
Primed the dash load and sanded to 400 grit . After seeing it wet and shiny, I know now that painting it to a high gloss black to match the console.
The last hurdle , the harness.
Dakazman
-
That looks great, D'man!! Just don't use it as a crash pad! :FUNNY:
-
I think in any crash your an 😇.
The pad covering is very thin probably less than the pad cover. You can actually compress it in sections . If it starts cracking I’ll just cover it in vinyl that I have on standby.
I have the headliner to do still and push my limits working with my arms up to contend to.
Then a good cleaning and final assembly, wiring , rugs , steering , e- brake , clutch and gas cables.
Misc engine jobs , valve adjustment , rear suspension shims and spacers front windscreen and lastly seats.
Dakazman
-
Looking great, as ever. I'll be interested to see your headlining work, that's one of the jobs I'm not looking forward to (along with all the rest of the trimming parts!)
-
Broadside, I’ll get a few pics in soon . It’s still a work in progress with the material choices I made with the the fabric hangers. Using brake line for the outline and the pleated headliner. ISO’s a total of 4 cross vehicle hangers. One in front, 1 in back and two centrally spaced . I posted pic awhile back on it .
Fabric is stocked at hobby lobby as headliner material. I’ll also ad 3/8 “foam to lower roof panel.
Continuing with documentation of all wires on the S2 . Gauge/ color / strands / to-from/ and lenght.
Spitting the harness routing of the engine components and the rear lights and reverse lights . Split will be just below the interior light run. BTW my interior light is all metal and chromed. See pic of the wires that will removed from running thru engine compartment. Routing will be over wheel wells. They will be better hidden.
Layout of the additional heater/ demister , windscreen washer and AC control wires will be parallel to the original harness routing.
Just one step at a time, relays and other fun stuff coming soon.
Dakazman
-
Wiring schematic turning into a wiring diagram equipment list .Thanks to to author of the schematic. :trophy: Not sure if automotive technician get this info however on newer cars I know their manuals are very informative. Parts such as connectors and terminal ends no ,detailed illustrations, yes . Crimp tool no. Length of wire , no.
So on I go , documenting what I can. See my thread, ever wonder why, for more WTH is this :FUNNY:
Dakazman
-
Y'know that would make a good spreadsheet in the tech section......
;)
-
EuropaTC , Absolutely.
Alphabetic by component, and then as shown.
It will give owners a guide for ordering the correct material and quantity. At the component I’ll add part numbers and picture of component all in one spot.
If anyone has another type car old harness ( other than this S2 fed ) let me know if you want to get rid of it so I can build another board for information.
Dakazman
-
Moving along installing some of my visions of a modern day Europa built 50 years ago. Subtle improvements in some ergonomics and comfort. C3 corvette window switches and some ducting path vents.
I found another source of striped wire and soon will be placing an order. Then I’ll report back.
Dakazman
-
Nice work!
-
Thanks Turbo.
It’s been a sweat fest today but managed to install a headlight switch, amp meter gauge and the DB10 relay. I also sanded down the crashpad . Fixing kids toys and. Cleaning the garage.
As fate would have it my pool sand filter tank cracked after 5 years , and then after that the impeller shaft melted . No worries all is now up and running!🤗
I just couldn’t take another day of wiring schematics.
Dakazman
-
Y'know that would make a good spreadsheet in the tech section......
;)
Europa TC, absolutely, I want to clean up all the schematics and I redesigned the S2 FED working now on the S2 Early.
I did over 150 breakout circuits so when your working on wipers the print shows wipers and related gotchas.
Dakazman
-
The weather broke a little so I’m back in garage finishing up a few projects from the past .
Assembled another wedge head , sorted out my parts and arranged a little better. Then I pulled out the crossflow and finished up the headers , now for the stripped out head bolts. Don’t really know if the time certs can be inserted that far down it the block which leaves getting shorter head bolts.
If things would stop breaking, like lawnmowers and pressure washers , pool pumps and filters I’ll have time to work on my lotus. Even my motorcycle decided it wanted some attention and locked her cylinders up with fuel. Stuck float probably , brought on by a faulty semi new fuel shutoff valve.
My old style arts and crafts fabricating the electric demister case is in work .
Well , stay tuned.
Dakazman
-
Headliner frame completed, plan B .. I used 1/8 Rods instead of the brake line material. I used the line’s as a template for bending the steel rods that stay straight and give the needed flex to expand the material, that now can be draped on like a curtain as you thread it thru as you would a tent. . I get to give my wife a job😃 of sewing some straight lines.
Dakazman
-
What's that for, D'man? Are you doing something different with your headliner?
-
If you're having a suspended headliner, check first to see if there's enough headroom for you. Personally I'd be ok because I'm the ideal size for a Lotus (5'8") but if you're normal size ( :) )you might find your head's close to the liner.
Brian
-
I don't know all the options for headliners but mine is a foam backed fabric that is glued directly to the roof. It's pretty simple and required nothing to install other than spray glue. IIRC, the original headliner in my TCS was similar except that the "fabric" was vinyl.
-
Glue doesn’t work well down here , the glued ceiling material on my vans failed, installed by manufacturers. I’ll post a picture of the material I’ll be using. It shouldn’t hang down much,< 1/2” I hope.
I’m also adding swivel sun visors .
Dakazman
-
Swivel sun visors installed today but still need a little tweaking to get the rotation straight. Glassed a 3/4” 11 ply block with holes predrilled so not to go through. It was a little hit and miss but I should be able to sand down or build up angle. No airbag so that placard will be removed and the vanity mirror replaced. Donor was a 2000 Hyundai tiberon visors.
Dakazman
-
I can't relate much to visors. My head is so high in the car that if I tilted them much at all, they would block my view out of the windshield! I'm glad you're taking that ridiculous warning sticker off!! Enjoy them!
-
I decided not to go with the foam back headliner material, so I’ll be using the microfiber that I used on the seats.
I’ll probably never use the visors also however I’ll have that option. It was a job that I just wanted to cross off my list of small 2hour jobs.
Dakazman
-
Another project all most finished, the new home for the 1200 w electric heater.The heater and fan will be wired up again before painting box . It will do it’s intended job of defogger/ demister of the windscreen as it sits atop the evaporator . It will also heat the car up but I’ll do a few more tests outside vehicle in the steel case.
Dakazman
-
So, you are putting in a 100+ amp alternator? That's not that difficult to do except at idle.
What battery are you going to use?
-
Yes Paul, the 100 amp alternator is in along with a0-60 amp meter. Turning it on is definitely not an idle thing especially when the ac is on. I’ll work on when I can turn items on , I believe it was drawing 30 amps when originally run.
The battery you suggested many times, I can also run two batteries in parallel , I have the space since I only have one fuel tank. . I don’t think however, that would be necessary.
Dakazman
-
The Florida humidity took a nap first time since May. These parts have been waiting for today.
Now I’ll see if I like my plan for interior. A high gloss black crashpad and console. The bonnet had some humidity defect get under the clear so I had to paint it
It was a perfect time to fix some of the chips in the paint I put in putting it back together.
Dakazman
-
Are you sure it’s wise to have that much shiny stuff on a Florida car? :)
On the other hand, it might make it a little cooler by reflecting some of the light energy!
-
You may be right BDA but a little carpet on top of the pad when driving may be necessary.
Now to sand and polish it up. The crashpad will need another coat since I had to paint it suspended in air. The paint was blowing it around a bit . I all ready dropped it while placing in vehicle it fell down and scuffed it a bit.
Dakazman
-
It's coming together... Remember to wear your shades! :)
-
I assume the shades will be mirror finish too :D
-
Sorry, Silver.
Two more big jobs to go, refabricate an ac bracket and add an idler pulley to get the compressor behind the firewall and the add the electrical harness.
Then the steering column, rug, clutch cable, accelerator linkage, valve adjustment, brake line bleeding add the ebrake arm and the headliner install. Install front windscreen.
Dakazman
-
I really didn’t want to setup to start some sanding and polishing but it was necessary to keep things moving along. The last of the interior big items completed and I can do some further layout of switches. I now can start cutting extended wires inside the harness , Mainly the grounds .
The interior will definitely look different.
Dakazman
-
8)
Did you make the console?
-
Yes crashpad and console and binacle🤪. Just added these finishing touches. The plan was to fabricate the console , binacle and now the crashpad.
I just want to drive this thing soon.
Dakazman
-
Nice work! I see you have been working on it awhile!
I have never driven a Europa…..I can hardly wait to finish mine!
-
Thanks Turbo, it’s been a challenge however I treat it as a hobby and not give myself time constraints. I work with a self imposed budget, most of the time and understand your chooses. Engine over shocks would win in my book also. You have an interesting build going on, keep it up.
Dakazman
-
I installed the lower steering shaft today after centering the steering rack . 2 1/4 turn from stop to stop. Centered and installed the lower column as pictured in the manual,, flat up.
I fabricated a stainless plates for the sealing grommet. I used nutplates on the outer plate and held it in with a cleco , after pulling it in place with some safety wire.
A few days ago I unpacked my rug I’ll be using and found it badly creased so I needed to flatten out. You tube did not help, finally I soaked it down and let it dry in the sun. Worked well,so I’ll start cutting panels soon.
My wiring terminals, wire and crimp tools arrived for the last big part of this puzzle.
Dakazman
-
Started the interior rug fitting today. This carpeting is very flexible and is conforming to all the bends.
It cuts with a pair of ,” good” scissors . At first I thought I would have to bind the edges but it doesn’t fray one bit.
I see now why the needs a bit of a lift towards the back of the console. I added 3/4” of foam padding that now has a good look and feel.
Dakazman
-
Covering up the "raw" parts of the car is a big event because it is a big "finishing touch"! :beerchug:
-
8)
-
dakazman, I've been thinking about this step, though far from time to do it. Were you able to get the carpet behind the pedals (fairly) easily? Or did you remove them to do it?
-
Kendo, it’s still a work in progress. Working around the pedals is going okay, however I do not have the steering column installed but I don’t recommend you remove the assembly . My carpet is the felt type and cuts and bends easily . It also is easy to vacuum and will not require any binding. I’m installing and cutting it by perspective, so you have to stand on your head to see any faults.
Dakazman
-
So, you're worried about how it will look when you're in the Lotus position in five years fiddling with some electrical gremlin? Now that's forward thinking ;D
-
It’s more like painting a room, to get a nice straight line at the ceiling or down a wall you paint the ceiling or adjoining wall .
Dakazman
-
Moving forward on my list of jobs to complete, I needed a clutch toggle and a rear license plate bracket . I spent enough time looking for the toggle and had it on a list to buy but at the last minute I decided to turn one down. I’ll also install a single plate LED light that’s centered that’s been sitting on my shelf.
I also decided to make another A/C bracket that will hold the compressor behind the firewall. Plan B missed by 1/2”. After I finish it I can assemble the firewall.
I did wire up my doors and added a few wires for lighting, no speakers going in. Door cards ready to go in and it’s starting to look like I’ll finish it.
The wife also broke out her sewing machine 😂.
Dakazman
-
Nice!
I need a lathe and mill to go with my TIG welder........
-
Good stuff, D’man! :beerchug:
-
Nice!
I need a lathe and mill to go with my TIG welder........
It was done with a drill press and hacksaw blade, then a file. :welder:
dakazman
-
Here is plan C , behind firewall but now need to move brake line and add a bracket for idler pulley to deflect the belt to an lazy L.
Dakazman
-
Lathes and mills are for sissies. Real men use a chisel and a file! :blowup:
-
Lol, sounds like a Monty Python line! :))
-
Impressive!
I still want a lathe and mill ;)
-
Impressive!
I still want a lathe and mill ;)
:I-agree:
A few more metal cutting and forming tools would be a dream :pirate: A community workshop would be nice.
dakazman
-
More cobbling today ! I’ll have to purchase larger diameter pullies 1 v and 1 flat and a few M7 bolts to finish this stage of bending the belt to clear the firewall and brake lines.
Dakazman
-
8)
-
Nothing is simple on a renault engine. I needed 3 m7x.75x50mm bolts , HA,try to find them,... I guess I'll just go with a retap and a 5/16 nf 2inch bolt .
I am also looking for 3 crossflow long head bolts.
dakazman
-
Any mechanical/industrial/auto supply shop should be able to source M7 fittings. Heck, I just checked homedepot.com and amazon.com, and they both list them.
-
Really , I found lots of nuts but no bolts . The .75 thread count for the front cover is needed
Maybe I put in all the specifics. I’ll try again.
Dakazman
-
The front cover? Are you sure they are M7x 0.75? Mine weren’t. M7x1.0 across the board.
-
Yep, you’re right again John. Thanks
My glasses are in need of change. I used the quick plastic feeler and read the wrong side , not seeing the 70 pitch line. ( you can see it in the pic easily)
I’ll be going back to the metal scale.
Dakazman
-
I find Mc Master Carr has most fasteners (and everything else) and has very quick shipping.For US folks only.
-
Thanks Exlimey, I looked into them but it seems they only have bulk 25 bin units . We used them and grainger at Delta.
They did have the idler pullies I need in assorted sizes. 🙏👍👍
Now to locate those m11 head bolts for the crossflow and maybe a rocker assembly.
Dakazman
-
They will also ship to Canada as well. Just not to a residential address.
-
Received my fasteners that have good bulk prices and deliver to a private residence. now I'll be able to mount the bracket and place the belt pullies in a location to be behind firewall . I also purchased the caps to bypass the water pump and pick up a 4"v belt pulley , then I'll find a Flat pulley .
One day I'll get to make up a list of engine fastener lengths and sizes.
check out,: Rivercity fasteners and supply
7847 elm st NE
Fridley MN, 55432-2528
telephone 763-78-2658
Dakazman
-
Hot dog you will be driving that thing soon! Good job!!
-
Hopefully, 🙏
Celebrating a little victory today with the successful thread repair to the crossflow head bolts. I drilled and tapped in 3 timeserts . After two weeks of setting up with high strength thread locker , I removed the head bolts . Then installed a gasket, head and a rocker assembly and fully torqued .
I had to remove the top stop of the timesheet so I could set it below head height . I used some anti seize on bolts so if I got any thread lock it would not stick to bolt when removed.
I now can restart assembly on the crossflow after some polishing of course.
Dakazman
-
I was going to say that head looks a bit dull! :)
-
I was about to comment on that, too ;D
-
😂 guys, thanks !
It’s a step in the right direction and I have all the parts except for the two Weber 45 DOCE !
I even have an extra gearbox to go on. If it will accept a tc bell housing. I was saving that for a ztec that I found in a local salvage yard. I rebuilt it of course.
All in all , it’s progress.
Dakazman
-
Valves! Valves would be useful. Spings, too ;-)
-
Absolutely John, kendo and BDA here are some sneak previews!😂
The cylinder liners and pistons might help it to 😀 The finished head is on the shelf ready to go in. The one I torqued on is yet to be repaired/ modded.
I didn’t want to go down the path of assembly and find out it needs a line bore like my other 821-30.
I’ll be sending that out as soon as I find another shop to do a line bore. The nearest closed up shop.
I wish Mountune was in Florida.
Those polished parts look pretty sitting on my shelves but really no help powering car.
Dakazman
-
So, D'man, are you going to polish the parts of the head that don't show? :) It would make it nicer to look at when you take the valve cover off!
-
I was going to say that head looks a bit dull! :)
Said the same to my mother in law once.
. . . live and learn. ;D
Found these nifty things the other day and immediately thought of the D'man.
They also come in larger size 'cartridges' for a 1/4" mandril but the 1/8" (Dremel) ones look the goods for all those nooks & crannies on a Renault casting.
-
You must be very patient to do all thet polishing!!
It does look fantastic when it's done though
-
Thank Broadside :I-agree:
There won't be much polishing going on anytime soon :huh:...after this A/C bracket I'll be able to run the needed lines up to the evaporator.
then, I can install the completed firewall and the rest of the interior. yes :trophy: and all the electrical harness.
I still have to wait for my headliner to get sewed up. :deadhorse:
After that, start the original motor.{less liner}
dakazman
-
Finished the A/C bracket assembly and only need a V-belt change .It fits behind firewall and all though close ,it jumps over the brake lines . I little more finishing work on the brackets to stop rusting only.
Dakazman
-
Nice work !
-
Hmm, the small idler "might" be too small in diameter. Here's what I had at first:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-HfnH25R/0/fd0f21e6/X5/IMG_1152-X5.jpg)
The belt bending "backwards" over the small pulley led to this:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-pCH6ZVb/0/448acdc0/X5/IMG_2314-X5.jpg)
So I made up and shrank and aluminium piece on to increase the radius:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-Gs6fMpG/0/ac236a1b/X5/IMG_2348-X5.jpg)
Problem solved.
-
I may be able to increase the pulley another 1” max . I don’t have that notched type belt , my v belt is solid . However the belt that I have in there for plan c is now to short, so I’ll be running out for another.
John, if you have time can you give me a dimension below your carbs and frame. Reason, I need about 4 1/2 - 5” to place a compressor their on the cross flow using the same front bracket.
If I don’t hav the room there I’ll try fitting it below the header but on top of water pipe.
If all that fails I won’t use the extended crankshaft on my cross flow.
On another project I polished up a tc bell housing and a few other items . while I was at it I found a faster way to bring out the mirror using 3M Scotch-Brite Roloc Surface Conditioning Disc, and green/ brown rouge’s. These pieces shined up after 400 grit. See before pics . I have a new aluminum sealer that was suggested long ago. My antique van has 4 wheels that really need a makeover.
Dakazman
-
"John, if you have time can you give me a dimension below your carbs and frame. Reason, I need about 4 1/2 - 5” to place a compressor their on the cross flow using the same front bracket. "
Mine is packed with pipes, hoses, etc but I think there's close to 6" clearance.
-
Thanks John , it’s going to be tight for sure on a cross flow with dual webers and the air box.
I guess I should have used the quote feature. It helps clarify the question.
On another note , I thought I had the seals for the liners with a gasket set but it only had the paper shims. The liners had the thin rubber shims. I have another gasket set coming from Serbia since early November so I’m hoping they will be in that set. Everything on my 843 valves , crank , cam and pistons are all original specs. That’s the holdup for now.
Dakazman
-
I hope everyone had a great holiday. I have gained at least 10 pounds. 😁 but I enjoyed every bit of butter turkey bits and my choice of several desserts. Not to mention a little overindulgence in the finer liquid refreshments.
I did manage to get started cleaning up garage a bit , setting up the crossflow on the build stand . As usual I couldn’t resist .🙈😎 I’m just going to enjoy looking at it for probably a year , so I posted a few pics of this build. My engine gasket set is due on Friday. Hopefully the liner seals will be included.
Happy New Year,
Dakazman
-
That is going to be a beautiful engine!
-
Thanks Turbo🙏
Dakazman
-
That’s an amazing finish. Hats off to you
-
Thanks S2 ,
I’am developing mirror madness a bit using some new tooling and techniques. All most at a mirror shine now . I’ll have a little more time to work on it since the gasket set I purchased did not have the liner seals included. 🙁
My belt system for the ac is installed, behind firewall plain. I’ll do a few more tweaks to the alignment of the pulleys and a few other items before closing.
I’ll also get to start assembly of the harness as soon as I pack up the holidays, since my garage is at full capacity.
Dakazman
-
Do you preserve/protect the finish? If so, what do you use?
I have been using VHT clear engine paint, which seems to hold up and not yellow.
-
Do you preserve/protect the finish? If so, what do you use?
I have been using VHT clear engine paint, which seems to hold up and not yellow.
Yes Pfreen,
I used the VHT on my daughters motorcycle casings and it held up nicely. She sold the bike , after all that work , but at a profit.
I also use spray max 1k on a few items , headlight lenses and side view mirrors. I’ll attempt to do my vans wheels after I clean them up a bit.
The center pictured clear is everbrite, I will be using on this motor. It has good reviews.
Dakazman
-
Second the Protect-o-clear from Everbrite. I used on polished aluminum motorcycle cases and has held up for 10 years. Gas and oil seem not to effect it.
-
Kram,
Second the Protect-o-clear from Everbrite. I used on polished aluminum motorcycle cases and has held up for 10 years. Gas and oil seem not to effect it.
Any noticeable yellowing when hot? The sales people couldn’t give me a straight answer on that.
I imagine you ran your bike in 10 years 😂. Thanks , after all this work I don’t want to powder blast it later.
Dakazman
-
Put away some of my outside Christmas lights and help a neighbor with a few ladder jobs he thought he could do . I dug out some scrap metal I had laying around while cleaning the shed😕. I got right on cutting it up for an engine stand I saw somewhere. It didn’t help that the outside temps in the sun went to 110f 🙁
I cut out a few aluminum plates needed for the head and fuel pump. Basically a good start of a new year. 😃
Dakazman
-
Just an update ,
A/C belt routing and clearances. I feel good with this plan, so it’s time to move along to the testing.?
One good thing is now I can crank the engine over the set the valve clearance by the crankshaft.
Engine stand front view , now I need to place the legs , probably just welding after cutting a 45 degree on all joints. Welding the bar to the motor mount plate will be done after attaching the housing and gearbox . Right now it slides through.
Fuel pump plate and a head sensor cover cut out.
Dakazman
-
No yellowing or peeling at all. I used it on 2-stroke cases and they do get pretty hot. I polished them, wiped down with acetone and sprayed two coats. No weather corrosion and really no scratching from my boots.
-
No yellowing or peeling at all. I used it on 2-stroke cases and they do get pretty hot. I polished them, wiped down with acetone and sprayed two coats. No weather corrosion and really no scratching from my boots.
Thanks Kram, That gives me piece of mind now.
Dakazman
-
All the welding completed on the floating cg engine stand . The motor mount brackets float on the bar.
Thinking about adding wheels and using it as a dolly , to move to entire assembly as one. Any ideas?
Dakazman
-
(i) Are you going to fit an adjustable support at the "back" to support the back of the gearbox so you don't but undue twisting/shearing loads on the rubbers of the motor mounts when it's all assembled?
(ii) Will you be polishing the brackets the motor mounts fasten to? :)
I'm still always massively impressed with the black mirror finish on the car. At first viewing of the first photo it looks like a lower back end engine hatch with the reflection in the sail!
-
It’s still a work in progress. I’ll mount the unbuilt block to the bell housing and gearbox. And add a support of some sort. The stand is modeled after just an engine stand, so instead of welding in the motor mount plates I decided to let them slide along . A nylon strap to hold up a gearbox may also work. I need 4 - 1” gas pipe caps as feet.
Painting the entire support safety yellow 😃. The black reflects some interesting views during the day and I’m still in awe.
Dakazman
-
I had a busy,productive week. Painted the engine stand with a spray can… silver.
Next , I drove down to Ft. Lauderhill to Bert Knip’s home to pick up some panels. I enjoyed meeting another lotus enthusiast and we talked like we knew each other for years. His build is coming along nicely but that’s his thunder to unveil. While there Bert showed me a few other extra items he had for sale, long story short , I filled my van . A bonnet, Boot, and 3 doors.
The appropriate trip is about 350-400 miles . My van struggled home . Driving 80 mph was to much for my 10 year old tires with less than 5000 miles on them. A aeroDynamic panel also caught some air and was banging around until I yanked it off. Ac dead , squirrels. It is another long story but I managed to limp home without a tire change.
Dakazman
-
Finished a majority of the stripping the boot , bonnet and 3 doors. I know this is a diversion from completing my build, but I just had to save them from the dumpster. Once I completely evaluate the damaged areas and do the initial repair cuts and tapers I’ll hang them from my ceiling and work them at my leisure. I rather look at them on the rebound side with paint off. They are not an easy fix.
I have another diversion since the weather temps have dropped. a 150 ft 6ft concrete wall of mine need to be stuccoed again. One of my wife’s honey doos. 🤪❤️
-
Good for you for saving vintage Europa parts! Those don't look so bad to me...
-
Challenging BDA, 😂
The spider cracks and other cracks I’ll picture tomorrow . The chemical stripper damage is going to be time consuming on the entire bonnet.
I was laughing to myself a bit thinking of , Do Not Lean, placard JB has. It’s all good , I’m a classic in the same shape. A little TLC and they’ll be as good as new.
Dave
-
I asked my wife to dust off the sewing machine and sew some straight lines . It’s been awhile since I made the webbing and mounts to hold it in.
I still have to pull the sides and cut the fabric around the rear window, cut the mount holes for the sun visors.
Dakazman
-
A little progress report this week with many other jobs going on I managed to partially install
The missing link to the carb. Waiting about a month for this racepro linkage it bolted up in no time.
I still have to connect the cable to pedal but it should go easygoing.
The other jobs I’m doing is restuccoing a 6ft high 150ft long wall or fence. Halfway done on that with about 3 hours of work left. Inside job since it got cold ,🥱65f , was to rip outa bathroom countertop and just redo the Formica, fat chance, a week later , still working on all new birch doors and draws for the cabinet. Sometimes I wish that I was like the neighbors that are allergic to tools.
Dakazman
-
That’s what happens when you’re a man of so many talents! :)
-
Thanks BDA,
I also purchased some new toys, .. Guns 😁
Well the family bought them for me for Christmas. More about them later.
I know I need to step on the gas a bit and get the electrical system back in the car and fire up the motor.
I had a problem with my wife’s hi-top conversion van after a 400$ A/C service check to find the slow leak . Right after the first road trip down to Bert’s in ft Lauderhill the ac was empty. I also blew all four tires that only had 2000 miles on them but about 14 years old.
Then I brought the van to the shop and they wanted another 900$ to replace , where they now say we’re leaking is the condenser and both evaporators and another expansion valve in between the two systems.
I now have another job .
Dakazman
-
Having fun and learning.
Being retired is just a different way of life . I set a daily task for myself every day, sometimes it conflicts with my wife’s plan😂. All good.
So to have some fun at something I miss , I purchased a Gammo . 177 pellet rifle with scope .
Living within city limits we are not to shoot off any rounds so I got around that rule and now enjoy some target practice.
The other gun , a welding spool gun , to learn something new .
Retired and having fun.
Dakazman
-
The learning never stops!
-
Moving along this week after finishing two bathroom updates to the wife’s specs. 🤐
Headliner installed but will still need to be pulled and tucked into the door s and window seals.
Recovering the sun visors also . Rugs also going in.
Rug and a few refinement also going on.
Dakazman
-
Clutch pedal cable completed, brake pedal next. Then a trip to the salvage yard to pick up ac lines . My last trip there was eye opening with the amount of lines and hoses available. They are on the other side of the car and until I gather some lines up , I cannot install carpet.
Dakazman
-
It’s time to light this off.
Found enough time to take down my wiring build board and lay it down to wire the dash in. However I felt better to lace up the harness so that it lays out better. I’ll add additional wires in the car for all the upgrades. Dash will get wired tomorrow. 😃
The routing of the harness will also be slightly different as to I will hide a many as possible from sight.
Dakazman
-
:FUNNY: :FUNNY: :FUNNY:
-
Ooops, that’s our world leaders looking for answers. Not me hiding wires😂
Dakazman
-
Very true!
-
After finishing up several honey dos I managed to throw the kitchen sink at the harness. Made some progress even when disturbed every minute.
Dakazman
-
The harness is now off my build board and ready to install. Once in , I’ll route in, “mostly “ the same factory routes. Hiding as much as I can, and adding a new runs on all grounds, headlight and taillights.
I know it sounds strange not to run when out but it will reduce waste. I still have a bit more untangling to do 😜.
Dakazman
-
Dakazman, since you have it loose there, could you take a picture of the side view of the trip odometer bracket? A PO had removed the cable and bracket. I found a replacement cable from a fellow lister, but wonder what the bracket looked like. Also, where was it attached to the back of the dash? The Parts List only gives a general idea.
-
Kendo,
hope this helps. Don’t look at the brake fail light switch next to it . That is now my wash button.
Dakazman
-
So that’s like a 135 degree angle near the center console. I expect to add a couple of switches to the bracket, too. And of course, black 8)
Many thanks. That helps.
-
I may have a picture of the brackets itself when I took it off the old dash. I try to post tomorrow.
Dakazman
-
Off to a good start today with the dash inserted in car . I made a temporary pvc pipe bracket to suspend the dash in vehicle with safety wire . I can easily maneuver it around to route the harness and extend wire runs .
Dakazman
-
That's great stuff, D'man!! It's beginning to look like car on the inside!
-
Nice!
What's the PVC rack for?
-
It just a nice swing attachment for the dash . Whilst I add in some other system wires and decide where to put the new fuse box/ boxes. Those wires will be rerun thru the harness in their full run. Luckily those wires are easy to purchase at a decent price.
Dakazman
-
……..I see the wires now.. ::)
-
Absolutely brilliant. Must reduce "golfing language" significantly.
-
Thanks Sandy,
A PVC “trellis “ could also be used if you have a windscreen installed.
Working smarter not harder.
Dakazman
-
Very nice work Dman and I envy your patience. Does the portion of the harness traveling to the rear of the car go into the tunnel or along side the tunnel on the passenger side?
I have to add a wire from the tach to the coil and haven't taken everything apart yet. Perhaps you could suggest an alternate route.
-
When repairing the wiring in 54-1173 I put 5 spare wires in the panel to engine and panel to front bundles before dressing and routing them. I'll never need them now that they are there.
-
Gary, I remember reading that and I will take up that suggestion. I’ll add a few different gauges. I will also have two fuse panels and one that incorporates some relays. Routing the harness thru the firewall was my focus for today, along with hiding the runs and securing them . Changing the grounds in the engine compartment and boot also.
I pulled up pictures of original routing from under dash back thru firewall but was still unsure if the rut is on the side of tunnel or run under console.
Another delay will be fabricating some panels that I thought I made but I only have a cardboard prototype, so I’ll cut them out soon.
Dakazman
-
I believe that no wires ran through the chassis, you could disconnect at the engine and lift the body off.
-
That’s correct,
I must have stated that wrong the harness is inside the cabin area and attached to the top of the fiberglass tunnel or the side. It doesn’t seem to drape to the floor and then up and thru the firewall.
Dakazman
-
On 54-1173 when I took it apart the bundle ran along the top right side corner of the tunnel, that is where I replaced it.
-
Thanks Gary , I’ll fit the console on top of it so then I’ll be able to clamp the harness down and have the console lay flat.
Footer, I’ll post more pics of the run , I would keep the wire in the run thru the cabin area. Once under dashboard you can deviate.
Dakazman
-
Thanks Dakazman and Gary, through the tunnel didn't seem like a desirable location but I had no reference point. Wish I had done this while the motor was still out but it shouldn't be too difficult to maneuver in that space.
I replaced the original ignition system with an electronic one, distributer and all. Tack wouldn't work then and sent it off to be "rewired". When it came back I now need the additional wire to the coil. Will be glad to see it working.
-
Hey Footer,
You can also try to disconnect a wire at the coil and attach the spare wire you need and pull it from behind dash on the front side of console near fuse box then pull enough wire , approximately 6’ to pull the original wire back or another run back to engine compartment. Use a butt splice and apply shrink wrap so you can pull them through without taking up the console. Do a continuity test on the wire so you know your on the correct wire and that it’s not broken.
Here is a pic of that section I found of the run.
Dakazman
-
My TCS also has the run going along that edge. So Lotus must have actually standardized on that. But Mine didn't have the tie wraps, just held in place by the carpet over it. DK, did you add that as an extra precaution?
-
Great picture and idea Dakazman. I think your last post is the most attractive. I didn't think I would be able to fish a wire through the loom but even if it got stuck along the way, I could bring it back to the original position and be no worse than I started. I have two white wires that terminate close to the oil pump on the frame but have no idea what they lead to. Tried looking for them under the dash with no success. I thought that if they were idle I could steal one for my tack needs. So this approach seems the most likely to succeed.
It's going to be a couple of weeks before I get to it because of the cold weather but should have this done by the end of March.
I'll update my efforts and success.
-
Replaced the entire aft tail light section, wires and connectors. Just the red and all of the black in 14 gauge. I’ll just add the loom and secure . Moss motors is now out of there kit of just bullet connectors and the connectors receptors.
I found another supplier of the bullets at different gauges for 10 for 3$. Instead of 7$ from Moss .
I post the UK supplier after I receive my order to access the quality. Moss was first class.
After I run an operational check of the section I’ll cover in loom and secure out of sight.
Kendo , that’s not my car in yellow. Never use tie wraps on wire .
Dakazman
-
Dakazman, have you tried British Wiring, https://www.britishwiring.com/ (https://www.britishwiring.com/)? They have lots of the items I've been looking for and collecting. They look good. But I haven't used them yet, not being at the wiring stage.
-
Kendo , yes I have looked at them , the bullets seem to be close to what I purchased them for.
I’m looking to buy 50 pack for different strands.
Today was to get a feel of all things to do with the doors. I had previously run the new harness wires .
Termination of the wires needed to be done, door cards and door inserts, and a little led mood lighting.
These were just ideas but now a reality. Still need to fine tune and decide control and led location.
Windows operate but don’t travel all the way up, so I’ll look into that a little later.
Dakazman
-
Your interior is coming together pretty quickly! I like the wood trim and the mood lighting! :beerchug:
-
I am just finishing my door rebuild and thought I would share what I did.
Added two relays to each door so I could use a larger gauge ground and 12V line (also increased ground and 12V gauges throughout the vehicle). The relays are controlled by the standard switches using small gauge (low current) wire. The relays control the window motor connection to 12V.
I found that my door window tracks did not match the curve of the glass. I fabricated a pair of wood blocks that did match the glass curve and gently recurved the window tracks using large C clamps. This dramatically improved window operation. I used black 3M marine 5200 sealant to reseal some gaps that opened and also fill some gaps in the original fixed front glass.
While cleaning/regreasing the window motor / arm I removed one tooth from the arm gear to allow the window to open about 1" lower.
Rather than mood lighting, I added an LED light to the bottom of the door that illuminates the door sill and entry area when opened.
I still have primer and paint to do. Good luck on your door.
Ron
-
Hi Ron ,
Where did you mount he relays? That seems to be my biggest problem when modding the original layout. I did add larger wire gauge, 14 gauge to the window motors. All the grounds will be replaced.
I like your idea about illuminating the ground at the door area. I’ve seen where people have beaming their logo. I’ll have 4 extra white leds to play with after I replace all the gauge lights. The gauges will have a dimmer to control them .
Good luck with your priming and paint, it’s very satisfying when done.
BDA, Thank you!
Dave
-
Hi Dave,
I like the velcro for the door inserts (also the wood) will use that idea in mine also.
-
Thanks Bert,
The insert is make from fiberglass Matt then coated with a veneer. Then I clear coated the veneer.
Dave
-
I also made fibreglass inserts but probably just use vinyl.
In 3 weeks my car has to be ready for shipping, so I am working every day.
Just ordered a new windshield from RD.
Will make some pics of the progress
-
Can’t wait for the pictures!
Dave
-
I used this style relay:
https://www.amazon.com/NTE-Electronics-R51-5D40-12F-Automotive-Arrangement/dp/B002C95Y62
mounted on the fiberglass flange at the leading edge of the large inside opening. Wired first then a single screw/nut for each relay.
It is also good to use a snubber diode to reduce arcing and increase relay life.
This is the LED I used:
https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/led-wired-bolts/bolt-beam-12mm-led-light/1494/
Ron
-
Playing around with these dimpled stainless panel and securing where I envisioned them years ago . Sept 2018 is when I first designed the supports for them but I didn’t cut them until I was further along with the body on frame.
Wiring and other items will be hidden behind them. The center panel will also be covered.
Dakazman
-
Getting there😃
Now to reroute some more wires.
Dakazman
-
That shore is purty, D'man!!! :beerchug:
-
Thanks BDA, 🙏
Some daises going in with an led dimmer for instrument light. Thanks JB. Relay location still working on .
Things finally coming together… thanks all.
Dakazman
-
The front harness need work even though I had it on my build board for a year or so . I found the time , uninterrupted to go through every connector. I really like the bullet connectors after working with them .
The front harness had ground wires growing ground wires. None of which made much sense, so with connection after connection returned it back to an all most copy of the schematic. I found a few other connectors not on our S2 schematic that I’ll add on a bit later. It will help others plan for the correct amount of bullets and connectors.
Some other problems arose with the original radiator fan that was working well when I installed it now runs slooowly. Funny thing was how bad this horn sounds.
Dakazman
-
I'm also a fan of the bullet connectors. They hold up pretty well. I add a bit of dielectric grease to ones exposed to outside influences.
Rad fans. They stock ones are crap, period, full stop. S1 and S2 have Renault fans wired to run backwards and they flow very little air indeed. The TC/S have marginally better fans -- at least the fan blades turn in the correct direction -- but that is "better" only in comparison to the awful S1/2 fan. Many aftermarket fans are designed for tight spaces and have narrow blades which, while considerably better than stock, make more noise than actual air flow. Good rad fans have wide blades and move a huge amount of air. Back in the day they recommended a rad fan off a 70s Mercedes. I fit one and it works the bomb. A good Spal fan would do the trick as well but make sure it has wide blades!
-
Two other items I should have picked up are the removal and insertion tools, and the correct terminals for the parking light grounds. Moss motors sells the items in kit form, so I’ll shop around a bit more. Why now, 🤪 the front parking lights had spade connectors and that is how I installed them not really thinking about it . Re-terminating all was not fun.
As for the fan , it may not be an original going by the schematic of having two leads, mine only has one. I do have a few other aftermarket fans laying around from my corvette I could use but like the look of the original, it’s shiny 😎. I’ll look into the Mercedes unit . I also read another thread about the fan I may need to revisit.
Dakazman .
-
Your dimpled, stainless panels look great! Did you do the dimpling yourself or buy it off the shelf?
You've put a lot of detail into your car and it shows, the car is fabulous.
-
Thanks Footer,
The dimpled panels are from…. Don’t laugh to hard. . An old washing machine tub.
I have a habit of saving raw material, I cut it up and save sheet stock, steel rods, copper . Not that I go out of my way to find things, or store things. I like to repurpose things like this old pool filter that cracked , cut in half made some nice flower pots. The green ones in the picture. Other items were full wall mirrors, I cut them up and built smaller wall mirrors in wood frames. Maybe I’ll add some to show off the lower section of the car at shows . 😎
Like I say , It’s time to turn ideas into realities.
Dakazman
-
Slow going today after laying 8 pallets of sod at my daughters home. Fire ant bites an additional prize. Hiding wires and running new wires and terminals.
-
Man I don’t miss fire ants (I used to live in Louisiana)!
-
I lived in New Orleans. I was glad to be done with fire ants when I moved to NC, but I wasn’t. They’re up here too!
-
Can't laugh at your resourcefulness D Man. That's a good eye for the stainless panels. :beerchug:
-
Wiring up the bonnet area from the connectors onwards and adding some items. New ground runs mimicking the S1 ground studs up front. 10 hours in and all most done with the basics. The harness will also be covered and all hidden.
Dakazman
-
Making good progress, D’man!
-
5 bullets short of finishing the headlight wiring. Parts should be here any day now .
I decided after getting the stock fan running to test the two fan setup from my corvette that was to small . Wow what a difference in cfm and decibels.
With that said I had an aluminum radiator ready to go in but liked the look of the stock setup … sorry
Out came the lead weight and in with the new . I’ll pull it out later to seal the outer shell while it looks new. No polishing 🙏
All for the best.
Dakazman
-
I'd fit a deeper fan as they flow quite a bit more air.
-
JB , maybe that’s why it didn’t cool the vette motor. 😃👍
How do you shop for deeper or an all out better fan?
Dakazman
-
Jegs has a variety of fans. https://www.jegs.com/ (https://www.jegs.com/)
JB, doesn't a deeper fan run into the headlight bucket?
-
Kendo,
You can shift the fan unit inward, but even when I had the original fan, it didn't interfere with the headlight assembly.
dakazman
-
Hmm, my right front headlight bucket was bashed in. I'd thought it was to fit with the fan. But the car also had a major front end crash before my time, and goa whole front clip grafted on. So maybe it was hidden damage from that.
-
Mine was also bashed in , but g the he fan fit perfectly after I repaired the assembly. No accident damage on they side.
Dakazman
-
Mine was also bashed in at first, but the fan fit perfectly after I repaired the assembly. No accident damage on that side.
Dakazman
-
Yup, standard for the RH bucket to be "dented" at the factory to provide clearance.
-
Progressed a little more today, new aluminum radiator and better fan assembly. Removed about 70 lbs and installed about 20. I was shock when I picked it up with my left hand a routed it in place. I repaired my headlight assembly and had plenty of room to install both the original and this lighter unit. I’ll check the operation and see how this fan performs.
The other half of this assembly ,dual fan, will be used on the condenser in the right fuel tank area.
Wiring loom started and I fabricated 4 brackets to mount in front of the bonnet lip on body side. My bullet connectors are now in NY and I’ll be getting resupplied. 😃
Dakazman
-
Making some more progress with some hidden hanger brackets installed carting the loom . All undone with one screw on each of 4 brackets.
Replaced the original fuse holder with a simple cb panel. Adding another panel for upgrades soon.
Using the fan switch for the A/C cabin fan with a fan control on the ac panel out of site.
Then using either the fog switch or an additional switch where the heater valve was , still a push pull controlled by a relay. Instrument light led dimmer locating near light switch but still unsure of the city lights switch. Door mood control dimmer to be determined LOL 😂 TBD … I worked on commercial aircraft with parts of the maintenance manual that from factory TBD .
Dakazman
-
Looking good!
-
Nice work, D’man! :beerchug:
-
Dimmable LED daisy chain completed and tested. They also fit nicely in the caution lenses with the help of an O-ring.
Dakazman
-
Led lights need a little diffuser and correct placement in the gauges, I’ll work on it a bit later. See pic.
Finding a new home for the voltage regulator and start solenoid, along with the coil. Then I’ll hide this mess of wires.
On another front, I finally repaired the leaks is my ac gauge and myel Camino is holding vacuum.
Dakazman
-
Made a new home off the fender well for these items, tail light harness is now up and over wheel well between body and engine compartment. 😃 still debating with myself on location and if I should make a cover . These are some of the old components but needed to run the wires .
Battery and battery location I’ll copy pfreen’s mod, if I can find it again . It’s nice to be coming down to the finish line. Still I have lots of details to iron out and the final job of adding in my windscreen.
Dakazman
-
Just another day, completed my bracket for the voltage reg/coil/ start relay. Also ran a ground buss bar, and mounted on frame. Fabricating a ground gang for a 3 stud bar.
I probably don’t need the voltage regulator now that the alternator all ready has one, having the additional protection can’t hurt.
The start relay I’ll cover on a separate thread with the proper way to mount and why and terminal connection nomenclature . C1/C2/1W/2W is how the relay is labeled not C1/C2/W1/W2.
Dakazman
-
DK, if you have two voltage regulators, watch out for one interfering with the other. A regulator can need some headroom to set its voltage. So the first in-line could starve the second of the juice it needs to regulate. If they are trying to set the same voltage.
-
Won't the regulator in the alternator regulate to 12V nish (or maybe even control the voltage so it charges the battery).
I believe the one behind the dash (the "voltage stabiliser") is to give a relatively clean 10V supply to (some of?) the instruments. If you are using the standard instruments (with highly polished chrome rings of course) you will still need this. ;D
-
The voltage regulator controls power to the rotor's field coil. If you have an alternator with a built in regulator then you do not need an external voltage regulator, and, there is no where to hook it up.
-
I do have a single wire alternator with an internal regulator. I didn’t think I needed the original external voltage regulator. I’m going to leave the external in car but not operational and wired as much as possible.
I’m open for suggestions, on the start and charge circuits .
Dakazman
-
Finished up the majority of the wiring in the bonnet area with my order of bullets and connectors.
Harness hidden just under front lip .
Added a 3 prong ground studs and ganged together for aft section grounds. Sorted the engine compartment harness routing laying it out to hide and protect the runs.
Removing the external voltage regulator seems to make more problems. I think it may be better to leave it under lid but leave off the excitement terminal. Leaving the start relay and wiring in place also , I believe, would be better if I decided to reverse course on the single connector alternator. BTW, it does have a four pin connector on it . I’ll use a mirror on it to investigate further.
Dakazman
-
How in the world do we get these door card bezels on? Was I supposed to shim the door latch inward?
Dakazman
-
You slide them under the rim of the door handle from the top and the bottom. There will be enough compression in the padding and vinyl to get them in, then, they lock together.
-
Finished the connectors / terminal ends and all new ground wires. I’ll have a four stud bus bar for the grounds under dash and ganged the studs pic 1. Bracket for dimmers under dash
Bonnet wires now tucked away, all most . Working on where to add the radiator thermostat for the hottest area.
Starter, fuel tank and courtesy light , just needs a little more routing and covering for the starter leads. Need to hide the tail light harness the same way I hid the front.
I want to review the third brake thread another member designed that I liked and a Battery and battery box.
I will be busy the next few weeks on another project my daughter will close on Monday, being a single career Mom she’ll need all the help she can get. All while on standby to babysit my other daughters birth of a child.
Dakazman
-
Thanks BDA, I didn’t want to break the door off , or crack them, it is tight.
Dave
-
If you slack off the little screws under the door handle flap it makes it easier to install or remove the handle bezel parts.
-
Dakazman, where is that third brake light thread you mention? I don’t remember seeing it when it went around the first time. I’m thinking of adding a third light, too.
-
Gary, I’ll give that a try but I think I used bolt and nuts to secure.
Kendo , http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=2894.msg29365#msg29365
I tried the link however it was not connected to server.
Dakazman
-
Thanks, Dman. And about 6 posts above that is a description of an engine bay light that looks useful, too. My old 240Z has one of those that I used all the time.
-
I got those covered Kendo. Delcity had the bonnet and plate light assemblies. The bonnet is much brighter than the plate . I have two plate lights all ready but they are the originals , in the original position and may not conform to fl rules.
The interior light assembly is original and I had it rechromed.
Dakazman
-
Tail light harness hidden away😃.
Now to tidy up coil / oil pressure and warning and the grounds. Then the interior A/C and defrost circuits . The rest is just stock connections.
Dakazman
-
Great stuff, D'man! You are going to install struts for your engine cover, aren't you?
-
Yes Jim,
I also found this carbon fiber engine lid and struts, combined with a shiny reflective film applied😍😍.
My artist daughter wants to paint a Lotus mural thought.
My daughter just closed on her house for her and her 9year old. My to-do job list is to remove popcorn ceilings throughout and paint walls , install garage door opener, install new locks 🥴
Dakazman
-
I tried to get my Europa completed for the annual,”Wheels across the pond” car show in Jupiter Florida with my car this Saturday. I will try again next year. Family comes first as I anxiously await the birth of my newest granddaughter.
Dakazman
-
:trophy:
I got to spend some time in my garage WORKING on the Lotus. Instead of making a list I took some pics to remind me to purchase some items. So what did I do? I adjusted the valves going thru them all twice and then gapped the spark plugs and installed. another item that was bothering me was to check the points... yes I installed them, however I couldn't remember if I set them. Another job done .
Back to the wiring tomorrow, and trying to find the schematic on the window relay in my notes or screenshots... :headbanger:
If it wasn't raining here, for the firsttime in 3months,.. I was going to charge up my A/C system on my 84 El Camino that was changed over to 134. Charging the system by weight I found reports to be between 2#-8oz and another report of 3#-5oz.
Another Joy was taking my Conversion van for a fill up . STICKER SHOCK at $4.86 a gallon.
Glad to be back
Dakazman
-
STICKER SHOCK at $4.86 a gallon.
I wish it was still so cheap! We are pushing £2.00 a litre in the UK ($9.31 @ US Gallon)
-
Yeah, I think it may be a little "impolite" (or should I say whiny?) to mention gas prices in front of people from Europe or England where gas prices have been as high as ours for a long time! I think we can all commiserate with the rate of increase, though!
-
Yikes Silver, $9.31 . :WTF:
This is madness, I feel for all who have to travel any extended distances to their daily job and try to feed there family. I’m watching a new tax plan on usage fees on driving here in the US but not in Florida. I love driving , this is a sad end.
Dakazman
Bda, sorry, you are being polite and I’m just ignorant being retired for 4 years and not getting out much. Wow
-
Dakazman - I certainly wouldn't say you were being ignorant and didn't feel you were in any way being impolite. I continue to be in awe of how much you do on your vehicle fleet, for your family and others! I look forward to the day when you complete your Europa and have the opportunity to use it.
-
Thanks Silver,
I can see the point BDA was making. We try not to provoke anyone here, and this could be a potential hot topic nowadays.
Dakazman
-
Even on the same continent. Up here We are paying $6.50 / gallon USD.
-
Thanks Silver,
I can see the point BDA was making. We try not to provoke anyone here, and this could be a potential hot topic nowadays.
Dakazman
Just to be clear, my intention was not in any way to criticize anyone! I only meant it as a reminder that others long ago lived through the prices we pay now and are now paying what I would guess they consider to be unimaginable prices - and if they are unimaginable to them, they are surely the stuff of nightmares to us!
-
Well stated BDA, I did not take it as criticism.
I am in sticker shock at the prices of new cars too, more than my first house. I really feel sorry for the younger generations.
I lived most of my life debt free. That also will be non-existent soon, to many.
Dakazman
-
I agree! We are all living the Chinese curse to live in "interesting" times. I fear they are going to get a lot more interesting.
-
After rearranging my garage and taking down my mobile scaffold shelving that held my Europa parts left me with no choice but to start assembling my crossflow engine. The objective was mainly to gain some space, but also to find parts. Some parts I’ve found and some disappeared, but an oil pan drain plug? Some parts I researched and found online and some I make, like a cold start fixing screw. I had some time so I drilled a hole through a bolt added a small bushing and a nut and done . Thank goodness for the internet for posting pictures of items you need.
The crossflow, the one from years ago with the bad head bolt threads going together.
Crank, pistons and liners, cam, done. If it weren’t for a woodruff key for the timing chain crank gear that would have been done. I tried to pull a gear off an old crank but it was stubborn and maybe it should live there, I’ll just have to buy another.
In an unrelated area, I hate when I pay someone to do a job and later find myself repairing their work, one I caught loose hubcap spinner , one I found 10 years later, in alignment adjustments. I think I’ll post a new thread on that .🤬
-
Looks good but I would apply assembly lube on everything that comes in contact with something else in the engine - more on cams, all bearings, sprockets, gears, rings...
-
Absolutely BDA, I had a much easier time assembling this motor, concentration is key. so I closed my garage doors for a few days and worried the neighbors ... :FUNNY:
I forgot to mention the hole I'm pointing to in the 4th photo, I cant seem to find what goes into the larger hole on that side ?? :confused: The smaller one is the hole for the dipstick and can be put it on either side of engine.
Dakazman
-
I almost finished some cover plates for the cross flow engine. It will also have a pulley for A/C from the crankshaft.
Dakazman
-
I forgot to mention the hole I'm pointing to in the 4th photo, I cant seem to find what goes into the larger hole on that side ?? :confused: The smaller one is the hole for the dipstick and can be put it on either side of engine.
Dakazman
Crisis adverted, stand down everyone. the threaded hole in pic 4 is for an electric oil level sensor. if anyone would like to add if these are accurate, failure rate, or just junk. Does it just turn on a idiot light? please chime in. Jaeger p/n 323 557.01
Dakazman
-
They work but you need the matching gauge. It only works when you turn the key on before starting. I would just plug it off
-
Thanks JB, your input is valued.
BTW do you have the dimensions of the woodruff key p/n 046 e 6075? Renault camshaft.
Thanks in advance.
Dave
-
Finished up these cover plates but the distributor shaft cover I’ll shave off a few more grams. See pic.
I found my oil pan drain plug but I just ordered 2 m16x1.5 drain plugs from Napa along with the copper washer.
Dakazman
-
No. Just measure the keyways in the gear and the cam. You can then buy key stock and make your own.
-
After finishing my hurricane prep for the past two weekends I had time to run out a buy some keys that were in a kit . None of the doorman set fit correctly, just to loose for me.
I have plenty of bar stock for key ways and made my own . Tomorrow I should be able to finish the timing gear and then install head . 🙏
Dakazman
-
All though it not yet going in , I completed what I refer to as a milestone. 😄
Building a cross flow was time consuming but I loved every minute of it. More details to follow but here are some pics. Not a mock-up this time.
I need to buy an electric fuel pump and some roll pins for the rocker assembly.
Dakazman
-
That's a nice looking engine DMan 8)
-
Thanks Turbo, your mods are also looking great.
It’s a work in progress, adding the crankshaft pulley for an A/C system, so it’s my current 821 on a crossflow. Getting the fit is another story, twin Weber 45’s still need to be purchased.
Dakazman
-
A thing of beauty :trophy:
-
Thanks Silver.
Here is a sneak peak of the rest of it , a shopping and to-do list for me. Mainly Bolts, Webers and linkage, electric fuel pump top of my list . Transfering my 59$ New water pump pulley mount on the list of to do’s but having trouble talking with a vendor for tooling.
Now I can get back to the car. Maybe!!!! Read my off topic post 😂
Sneak pics:
-
8)
-
Thanks Turbo, 👍
Getting back to water pumps , I decided it’s better to be more adaptable by just drilling hole on the Renault pulley to fit the newer pumps that can be purchased much cheaper and fit newer model pulley’s. Made a template and drilled some pilot holes to get centers just right but offset to the current holes .
Dakazman
-
Finished final torquing and initial valve adjustment, everything turning freely.😅
Compiled a list of parts necessary to complete. Sticker shock set in when trying to find m8 1.00 nuts, m7 x 1.00 shoulder bolts . Yikes if you can get them in various lengths. Now to get back to hands on the lotus. I’ll save the rest of the polishing to my spare time.
Dakazman
-
That looks awesome!
-
I couldn’t resist hanging a few more parts so I can get a better idea of space available for the ac compressor location.
Hung the header and played around with a dipstick location. Then I went back into my storage and found a single carb setup , which would you choose? I have been scouring the internet for webers dcoe’s but now I’ll broaden my searches.
Dakazman
-
Dual sidedrafts of course 8) 8)
That header clears everything?
-
Yes , I modeled it after my 821 header I purchased from R&D’s it’s a bit closer to the block but I can pull it outward slightly.
The ac compressors home will be on the side of the carb/carbs . About the same length and diameter as the cup . The coolant line is in the way on the exhaust side. My firewall sits 1/2 @ forward on top ( lower window area ) to accommodate the pulley.
Dakazman
-
Bing read this thread.
Great work but our build philosophies are very different.
Nothing polished for mine, single stage paint.
Now to bed!
-
Thanks Rich,
My last paint job was single stage and I liked it .
I do like thing clean and level also.
While I’m here , does anyone have a recommendation on spark plugs ring duel webers 45’s
I need to put them on my shopping list and close the holes in the engine.
Dakazman
-
Cannot help with the plugs but Salv Sacco probably has an idea.
He responds very well to email.
Twin 45's may be a bit much for the street?
My TS head car has 40's despite being a former Hill-Climb and Auto-X car.
Looks like your TS head was shaved.
That will add some to compression.
I might suggest just slightly radiusing all sharp edges in and around the combustion chambers to help prevent "Pinging/Pinking".
Not so much of an issue with aluminum but peace of mind is valuable.
-
Thanks Rich,
I have now prior knowledge of weber decoe I have been reading about them and dellortoS dhla’s. I’ll double check the displacement charts . The only reason I said 45’s is because there seems to be more adaptability.
I did go with a 40 on my wedge. This cross flow is basically stock and will develop 90 bhp. I still have to map the cam . I purchased it from Renault 16shop but they couldn’t provide that info.
Dakazman
-
The Weber Tuning Manual gives you charts to get you to the initial jets and venturis: https://www.lainefamily.com/images/WeberTuningManual.pdf
This manual should be your first stop.
-
Twin 45s on a 90hp tune? Way overkill. You’re just going to lose bottom end. Frankly, with 9:1 pistons and a mild cam, just stick with the two barrel downdraft. It’s a good torquey set-up.
What are your valve sizes?
I have a medium tuned crossflow (11:1, largest stock valves, mildly ported, fast street cam, header and twin 40dhlas). I happily run Bosch WR5DP plugs. The recommended plug is a W5CC or NGK B7ES. The DP plugs are expensive but they resist cold fouling better.
-
Thanks guys , the engine is now in the wait for items stage. I’m gathering info and parts for it .
I thought the 45’s would be overkill.
John I’d be guessing at the valve size and would have to go back to my records, but just the original size. I remember slightly wanting to go with califkids or serges build specs . I don’t want to confuse it with the 2 other wedge heads I did, and the other cross flow head I’m searching for parts for.
I pick up several sets of valves from an S1 owner not to long ago and those measurements are on my mind. I’ll be posting them for sale if not needed.
As for plugs I found these two sets but they didn’t cross. I did find some info and was trying to connect the dots of why the PO’s had given them to me.
Dakazman
-
Bosch heat ranges go reverse to NGK. A larger number is hotter. I would say the WR4s will be too cold. If it is mild, the W7 might be ok.
-
Thanks JB.
Today I managed to get a full 6 hours of time inside my build.
door panels completed with the door pull surrounds . I had to shim out the door pull assembly to get them to fit . Getting the door pull panel bolts was a challenge and an ongoing task.
I decided to change the routing of the ac lines thru the wheel well instead of the cabin. I'll have to repair the hole I made, but, oh well.
Dakazman
-
Made some progress with some additional switches that wouldn’t deter the look of the original design. I fabricated an under dash panel that I can add a few more controls that are mostly out of sight. Dimmers for instruments and the mood lights.
I also changed the routing of the ac lines . Instead of coming through the cabin area I kept them in the wheel well area and into the front boot. See small hole drilled thru the wheel well just forward of the inlet duct. This will help in getting me to close up the cabin area .
Rug can now be completed except for firewall. I’m really beginning you understand the devil is in in the details quote.
New fuse box and a separate fuse relay box going in to handle the electric heater, ac fan, condenser fan and more.
Dakazman
-
Made a few changes to the wedge engine ac brackets and used the some time to get an idea of where the compressor will sit on the crossflow. Seems like I can get it to fit with either the single dgv or the dual dcoe webers.
I’m also documenting the blocks bolt location and sizes ex. (m7x1.25/25) . I hope it will help other builds .
My interior is coming along but more on that soon.
Dakazman
-
Music to an aircraft technician ears ,” OKAY To Close. “ The second of three panels ready to install.
It was a tedious task however I won… almost.😠. While shining a light alongside the block I noticed an electrical connector on the bottom of the starter I don’t remember seeing. See pic . The starter is from RD . I took notes of a discussion awhile back on the starter connections , but if anyone can chime in that will be fine also.
I fabricated a stand-off for the water line. So it wouldn’t be near the exhaust or banging against the frame. The Hermes intake modded the line and it wasn’t as stable as the original run. Then I added the loom to the wiring and secured. The finished fitting the center panel so it had clearance around compressor. The tightening nut was welded to the bracket and the attaching bolt comes out near the dipstick unobstructed.
Now for the last panel and installing all the AC lines. I was planning a trip to a local salvage yard but with all the rain lately it’s probably underwater and the parts I need are being protected by snakes and gators , no junkyard dogs down here 😂
Good news is I can install the carpeting on the right side now and hold off on the firewall section.
Next is a list of upgraded components and there controls that I still need to work out. Usually I just wing it but I’m finding it harder to crawl in and out of the car lately. 😂 later guys!
Dakazman
-
Today was a cut the lawn day. Rocket launch scrubbed again. After my nap, I went down and picked up my El Camino new condenser that had a crack in it. still a vacuum check leaking. so I'm pressure testing the system and, NO AUDIBLE LEAKS. WTH.
The reason for the comment about a rocket launch is that the roads are horrendous, my granddaughter's school was cancelled last Friday and 500,000 tourists don't help in the traffic situation.
My big job for today, a shifter boot . It has to be done.
Dakazman
-
If that's all you got done today, you're probably way ahead of a lot of people! As it is, I cleaned out my office. That was a chore - no Lotus work but it was way overdue!
-
BDA , your just doing some forward thinking by cleaning the office. I try to do it in April when doing my taxes. The shredder doesn’t stop for a week 😂
Moving along nicely now with the interior. For such a small area it sure does suck up time with little to see. I’m going to keep chipping away but at least now I can nap on the rug.
Dakazman
-
She's starting to really take shape!
-
Another good thing to come from putting things back together is the space you free up😃
Setting up the pedals are next , the brake pedal is to far forward and the clutch pedal is jammed.
It’s feels like the pressure plate isn’t giving way. Before pulling it out I’m going to run the engine, that’s the plan at least.
I may drop in a seat so I can bleed the brakes before finishing the firewall. More plans for that ahead.🤔🥱
Dakazman
-
Routing more wires and finding new homes for the hazards and turn signals bases wow, trying to remember what I modified six months ago has me shaking my head. Good thing t documented most of my build. I’m talking wire colors used.🥱
The lower control panel was added an the new home of the hazard and turn signal flashers.
I put off doing the pedals because I’m completely confused in the correct angles. My adjustments are another item I need to revisit.
Dakazman
-
Finished my seats , I had to secure the headrest, mint seat tracks and fabricate the back of the seats.
I covered aluminum sheet with batting and fabric and screwed the panel to the back frame . I wish I had some decorative screws but at least for now it’s done. Center console armrest cover now also secured, so that’s another check off my list.
Finished up mount for the condenser fan . now for the lines and control wire runs . So much work in such a small area . 😀
Dakazman
-
Nicely done, D'man!! :beerchug:
-
Thanks BDA ,
😅. Working in my garage with the doors shut keeps the temps at a comfortable level in front on my fan . It’s been so humid you can’t see from the sweat running in your eyes . The best part is I don’t get neighbors walking in and talking when I’m under the dash.
Dakazman
-
8)
-
Went back to the drawing board on my electric heater. I did not like the flow of air comings out of the ducts to the defogger. I replaced the fan with a higher cfm model . I had to modify the box and change the orientation of the heater unit and fan . I also cut another 1/4 inch off the height to make it side in easier and not push up on the windscreen fiberglass. Now that I got that worked out and tested , I need some advice on adding a 40 amp relay to the side of the box . I have never installed relays and would like to know what is the better connection or terminal? I got the wire hookup part . Solder or crimp? I probably will use two control switches one for fan and one for heater , heater from console and defogger switch for fan .
Going over a schematic of the relays for the window motors found it more trouble than it’s worth and probably wouldn’t increase the speed any . I’m running different switches that are in my c3 vette , with no relays and they work fine, GM wiring at its best.
Dakazman
-
Solder or crimp?
Crikey, Dave, are you trying to restart the war? ;D
My view is that either is OK provided you have a decent crimping tool or can solder and also that strain relief is adequately considered. Soldering is a bit of a lost art these days and soldering terminals can be tricky to get right.
After many years of soldering terminals, I bit the bullet and bought a decent crimper. Professional crimpers used to be quite spendy but not so much these days. The skinny cheap ones still don't do an adequate job IMO mostly because they're just too skinny for the terminals I prefer. I like the non-insulated open barrel-W terminals which are commonly used on our Lotus. I reckon the cheap insulated terminals are the work of the devil.
After some research, I bought a "Teng" brand crimper and it was a revelation - perfect crimps every time. There's likely other brands that are also excellent but that's what I went with.
I don't really like the terminals you show mainly because they look somewhat untidy and would be a hassle to pull through a grommet, for instance. That said, they'll probably work fine. There's also many varieties of straight in-line connector terminals for joining wires.
Am I right in thinking you need those round terminals to accommodate the pigtail for the relay?
It's also possible to get relay plugs disassembled so that you can separately terminate the wires and then click the terminations into the plastic socket.
Anyway, just some food for thought.
Going over a schematic of the relays for the window motors found it more trouble than it’s worth and probably wouldn’t increase the speed any
I reckon the primary advantage of window relays is to take the load off the near un-obtainium switches.
-
Hi Gavin,
I didn’t know about the solder or crimp controversy.
Thanks for the tip on the relay terminals. I removed mine from the socket and saved the terminals for some soldering, it will clean up the runs.
I showed the internal components and layout in these pics. It’s still a work in progress but functionally it works off a battery for 30 minutes.
Now to do the control runs. I did buy a bullet crimper but having trouble sorting out the solder and crimp terminals. Don’t ask 🥲 , I tipped over and broke my container of terminals. I purchased some from the UK and some from moss motors. Some of my terminals will not crimp, seems like there to hard .
I have a wide assortment of terminal ends however it seems I never have the correct one😖
My other switched fuse panel has all solder/crimp terminal ends but since I don’t have the crimper for that I will solder in them individually without any connectors .
Getting ready for this tropical storm on Wednesday, seems like it will just brush us .
Dakazman
-
Looking good, Dave.
On the bullet connectors, aren't the OEM Lotus ones soldered?
It's worth noting that many of these ratchet crimping tools have a multitude of interchangeable jaws available which means they should be able to crimp pretty much anything.
I've also experienced some spotty quality with terminals. I got a batch made from rather thinner brass - probably from eBay and ya never really know if they're manufactured in the back room of an apartment in Shenzhen.
They crimp OK but these days I prefer to see them before purchase and for a home gamer like me, buying smaller quantities locally is fine.
-
You’ll need more than one crimper. I have about 10 but a few are duplicates. 6 sizes of “w” crimps, insulated, un-insulated, spark plug, deutsch, hydraulic crimpers (battery cables), etc.
-
I have many of those also , but my next buy will be the bullet insertion and extraction tool , Moss motors had it in a kit ,but I didn’t need there crimpers , I guess I should have.
Gavin as far as original lotus bullets , I haven’t noticed any .
Dakazman
-
Trying to close up some loose ends and ran across the need to gang my new amp meter . The problem is the 9.5 mm .375 connectors. I need a piggyback or shyi just cut and re-terminate?
The original amp gauge had this option. 🤔
My searches have been coming up empty , but I can ask RD or the mfg of the gauge I purchased from rd. Any fast advice?
Dakazman
-
Is that the original ammeter? If so, can you post a photo of the back of the new gauge?
-
That’s the old gauge. I can take a better pic tomorrow.
The spade connectors I found are the smaller size . See pics
A double.375 , would work perfectly and I’ll change out the two other connections I need to hookup.
I found they call them VW style.
Dakazman
-
Generally speaking, adding connections within connections is not a good idea. This is especially so at a high current location like the ammeter. If it was mine, I would either switch to a voltmeter, find a different ammeter (with post connections so I could add connectors rather than having to nest them), or have the original gauge repaired.
-
I haven’t exhausted all the simple fixes, however I do heed the warning.
The original s2 schematic diagram shows the connections that need to to be connected at this point.
I have an email sent to the gauge manufacturer with his recommendations. Post back soon when and if I hear back.
A PO took out the black junction and also connected it to the meter.
I could increase the .25 spade to a .375 to make it easier to find a multi connector , or add a junction on both sides to gauge.
Dakazman
-
There’s five wires connecting to the ammeter I put connectors on each
Battery and Alternator I put on the tabs then the other three I put individually on
The bolt holding the tabs one going to fuse box one ignition and one for lights
works great before they were joined together I prefer joining them at the ammeter and not making joints in the wiring like it was before
What is wrong with the old ammeter if it doesn’t work looks at my write up you can see how I fixed mine or you can send it to me I’ll fix it for you
I prefer the old style ammeter not to crazy about the new two tab one
-
Califkid, correct five wires to two tabs.
I replaced the original 30-0-30 gauge to a 60-0-60 gauge. Added a 100 amp variable alternator to handle the electric heater/ defogger and the A/C compressor and condenser fans additional load.
Hooking up the A/c , LP cutout , clutch, condenser fan and the cabin fan from the units control knobs.
My heater carries a 35 amp load when heat is on . The console lever will turn the heat on just like an original car, but the defogger switch turns on the heater unit fan.
My fuse panel has all separate runs and can handle 100 amps . Another fuse panel will handle the ignition switched circuits and relays.
Dakazman
-
With that kind of current load, I would ditch the ammeter. If you really really want an ammeter, go for one with an external shunt at the battery. This is common in marine applications.
-
I’ll have to play around with it a little more . Meanwhile I found a plug and play connectors that may work.
Dakazman
-
Is that OEM :o
-
:FUNNY:
I think the new GM electric cars are exactly like this . Nothing like coffee and toasted bagel on the way to work.
Dakazman
-
I have seen a pickup truck with a small home A/C window unit in the rear sliding window with a power inverter to run it…….
-
They work well, during the hurricane my friend lost his generator so I lent him my 2000 watt ,4000 watt peak power inverter which powered his fridge, TV and a few light off their car. Its amazing what they do for their size . Necessity is the mother of invention.
https://www.google.com/search?sa=X&rlz=1C1AVNG_enUS962US967&sxsrf=ALiCzsammEjLJuoxM4nGZ7to4LNUDfWObg:1665781799407&q=How+do+I+use+an+inverter+in+my+car%3F&ved=2ahUKEwjY57Tj0OD6AhUytTEKHff0D6MQzmd6BAgdEAU&biw=1511&bih=736&dpr=0.9#kpvalbx=_TtBJY8uwJezIwbkPs62HwAI_50
Dakazman
-
Well then even with tons of interruptions I managed to get all the grounds and original mfg’s wires reconnected. Placement of the ballast resister is either in the plenum to cabin or at the modified FLV fan.
I temporarily soldered in the connectors to see if it has adequate cooling???
It helps when you solder connections you have seven hands.
Now that I’m left with only the extension on most of the turn indicators I’ll be installing the dash to hookup the steering column and db10 .
Oops and soldering in 5 relays on the panel
I have a Hot battery bus , switched bus’s off the ign switch with room for extras .
Dakazman
-
I came up with a temporary modification to the amp gauge connectors. The gauge terminals had a nice pilot hole in them , 💡 drill and place a bolt for the terminal ends . I can call that job done and move on and lower the panel in place after I extend the hazard and turn leads.
Then add the db10 and steering. 😁
Dakazman
-
Wow ! Great idea that way your sure the wires aren’t going anywhere
-
Finished enough of the facia so that it can now be dropped in place . I need to make some minor adjustments and take off one on the side braces . I need to purchase the ducting for the side vents but that shouldn’t hold me up . Can’t wait to assume the lotus position under dash but at least my seats aren’t in yet. I consider this a big milestone to get past and now I should get things done at a faster pace.
Dakazman
-
Congratulations, D'man!! A big step in your journey!
-
Thank you Calikid! Sometimes obvious things don’t come to mind suddenly.
BDA, my notes are atrocious, but I’ll get around to drawing out everything. I have to stop myself from adding in more , more , more. Many members have done some mods that I would like to copy but have put on the back burner for now . Turning a key and doing the initial break-in on the engine is all most the top priority.
Dakazman
-
It went better than expected 😅. A little more trimming around the binnacle I made and the glove box to stop some possible squeaking . Then gone is the facia stand, I will definitely try to come up with something that will fit when the windscreen goes in .
The ac ductwork fit perfectly with room for some bug eye vents on the leg area.
Dakazman
-
Heck, I kind of enjoyed seeing that fascia stand in your photos, clever solution. Great milestone removing it. Congrats!
So, is your steering column still in place? I've been wondering what to do with it when I remove the steering wheel and dashboard.
-
Kendo , yes but just the center lower shaft is installed.
It really did the job I intended it to, using a slotted post following the windscreen would work in cars
Too. Tilting the facia inboard to work on.
Dakazman
-
Some days just don’t go your way .
Trimmed out what was supposed to be a minor adjustment to fit the facia until the right hand vent caught on the the mount hole anchor and snapped it off . It set me back a few hours but now complete.
Another item for me to research is wiring the complete A/C system. I’m going over several vehicle schematics on the basic system.
I had another idea to accomplish, and collected all the materials I needed to. What do you think of a small fuel cell as a temporary feed while I test run engine. It will have a standpoint that will be attached to frame. I don’t like running old fuel through an engine so I thought this may be a good temporary solution.
Dakazman
-
Thumbs up to a temporary test gas tank.
-
I use one all the time. Motorcycle parts suppliers sell them.
(https://m.fortnine.ca/media/catalog/product/cache/a2bf45e9635ff86c8c09fbc84b193941/catalogimages/bikemaster/auxiliary-fuel-tank-152285.jpg)
-
So much for an original idea😂. Or ..just me recycling junk parts laying around. It’s definitely a better design. I can’t believe I never ran across them .
Thanks JB , that tank at an average price of $50 usd , with free shipping, a petcock and hose clamps it’s a steal.
-
Again with something else, a ballast for the A/C needs to have a home.
Searching for part to install is frustrating, I cannot find the ignition assembly. I put it in a SAFE place so I can bring it to a locksmith…. Tune in.
Dakazman
-
Still searching for my missing steering column parts for two days now.
I’m putting out flyers 🥱🤔 so much for safe places. I did find my air ducts 👍
Missing keys and bracket see pic
Dakazman
-
Crisis Adverted! Stand down everyone!
Parts have been located. 🥱. Three day of searching it’s under my antique English racer bicycle parts.
Dakazman
I’ll get to finish the racer one day .
-
It’s been an exhausting two weeks. After finding the lock assembly as fate would have it my main computer decided to go down, just a power supply. Then after a minor nasal problem I developed pneumonia and have been doing next to nothing for several days .
Feeling a better now, but still taking meds. I tore into my, stuck key problem. After soaking in every penetrating fluid out there I managed to get the key out of ignition switch. We also had a few home brew concoctions with a 50% ATF and acetone mixture.
Then going further into the switch assembly loosening the locking shaft . Here are some pics of the internal components. The surprise was that the locking shaft had a separate sleeve surrounding it that comes out . The locking shaft moves up and down when moved from the off position to the number 1 position. It hangs on a shaft connected to the key lock assembly. No springs involved.
Now to find a blank key, since I see a small crack in this original. I did find some info on the waso lock assembly tumbler replacement and I’ll post them on a separate thread since there really isn’t much here .
Dakazman
-
I would use some spray lock lubricant when you put it back together.
That might be the only thing I didn’t take apart on my car!
-
From my misspent youth learning about locks and trying to pick them, I recall that one should only lubricate locks with dry graphite. Something about liquid lubes collecting dirt and other grime. Thoughts on the matter?
-
I thought maybe a good squirt of spray grease would get into a lock mechanism and stay there. This sort of thing is a little bit of grease carried in a lot of solvent -
https://www.wd40.com/products/white-lithium-grease
It probably provides better penetration and corrosion protection than a dry lube, but maybe the dirt and grime factor outweighs that. I don't know for sure.
-
I agree with kendo! I use the “spray in dry graphite” in all my home locks . Keys glide in like butter.
Dakazman
-
I used a jewelers file to remove corrosion from the inside of the sleeve , the red is the reflection of the surface area. I will use a light graphite lock powder.
Dakazman
-
I agree that you should not use a liquid lubricant for the reasons Kendo suggested. I would not use regular WD-40 though WD-40 does sell a spray dry lock lubricant which looks good.
Here's what I use (https://www.acehardware.com/departments/automotive-rv-and-marine/fluids-and-lubrication/lubricants/13366). The carrier evaporates and leaves the graphite behind. I think the fact that there is a liquid carrier helps coat more of the moving parts with the graphite. It works great for the locks at home too! There are other brands that do the same thing.
-
It feels good to be back in my garage and working on the Europa.
Since I hate when you have a dash component not working or hooked up to anything and I’m glad I remembered to do this one last thing before installing the dash. I fabricated an E-brake “ON” light using the existing brake fail light indicator. Using a microswitch ,aluminum and hardware I had laying around. I just had to do it.🥱🤣 Bent up a bracket that can be swiveled and mounted the switch
Now just to install screws to hold the plate down and wire up to a LED .
Dakazman
-
Clever solution. Is the wiring going to appear in your relevant diagram?
-
Yes it will, I removed it long ago when the master brake cylinder was changed out loosing the level sensor. See pic. This is the S2 fed but I did the s2 and S2 Uk the same .
The new circuit pretty much follows the brake fail but I’ll change out the wire colors to yellow from purple. Keeping red and black to LED light assembly.
Dakazman
-
I received my ignition switch assembly and it’s a triumph spitfire assembly. The operation of it is that when key is inserted in position O and turned to position 1 locking shaft slides up .
When you move the key from position 1 to O lock assembly tab stays up , it’s not until you remove the key that the tab locks the assembly.
Kendo this is a final look at the wire runs before I install it .
Dakazman
-
Looks just like mine!
-
How about now , BDA ?
Some people wanted to know how to polish aluminum so I spent about an hour with a file and some 220 grit paper. After sanded I ran on buffer with green rouge. Here is the results. I can sand it again with 400 and the finish would be more mirror like and the sanding marks removed . Just passing on the process.
Dakazman
-
Nope. Now it doesn't look at all like mine! ;)
-
I all most just painted it satin black but needed a example piece . I guess I just blended out too many fan blades so that they wouldn’t crack. Pilots are always looking for a reason to vacation another day and look for technically minor safety items. Not on my watch!
Dakazman
-
It feels good to be back in my garage and working on the Europa.
Since I hate when you have a dash component not working or hooked up to anything and I’m glad I remembered to do this one last thing before installing the dash. I fabricated an E-brake “ON” light using the existing brake fail light indicator. Using a microswitch ,aluminum and hardware I had laying around. I just had to do it.🥱🤣 Bent up a bracket that can be swiveled and mounted the switch
Now just to install screws to hold the plate down and wire up to a LED .
Dakazman
Actually, if you're using your original handbrake handle...there are one or two welded bosses (actually nuts) at the lower end that accept the handbrake switch (036M6030) as used in the +2s; I wanted to do the same thing as you, just used that switch and the lead from the brake fail test switch to activate the light. (FWIW, you could also source the same switch as used on the TCS that is used to work with that infernal seat belt interlock circuit; it has an extra set of contacts that light the Brake light in the binnacle.)
-
Thanks Brian, I’m not getting any younger and crawling under the dash seems impossible these days , I will however look into that location.
Wiring up the new ignition switch or even the original I have a question on what is missing and how the ground wire attaches to g to he ignition assembly. See pics!
The schematic shows a solid black lead but I have a black/green. Minor change in the schematic to correct that.
How does it get secured to the switch assembly ? Seems like a spring under contact maybe? Or does it attach to the other side with this plate ?
Dakazman
-
Making some progress with assembly of the steering column wiring and locating the facia mount holes. I forgot I had to repair the door jam holes years ago. No wonder I didn’t understand the interior light switch location.
I also looked into the micro switch on the e brake shaft, sorry but I like my easy access. I’ll be spending a lot of time under there with all the column connections and testing. Then to tie the harness up.
Then the engine initial run. Well that’s the plan anyway.
Dakazman
-
The temporary fuel supply that is sold does not have the capability of driving the vehicle, it’s an excellent alternative for engine runs. I continued the stand that can be bolted in with just one nut . I was looking for a wing nut so that it could be done by hand . That’s another mod, along with a shutoff that I do have laying around from numerous pressure washers and lawnmowers .
Sorry for all the dust, but soon it will be all mirrors.
This is only for Temporary engine runs.
Dakazman
-
I figured, How bad can they be and took an offer for a 45 dcoe carb, Not a Weber. I wanted two but they only had one, the other is now in transit after checking the dimensions, it was a perfect fit and good quality.
This will be for my crossflow. Has Anyone else try these?
Dakazman
-
I have heard that the quality of the Weber copies is spotty at best.
If you are using more than one, you should use matching carbs because one of the things that can differ between even Webers is the position and number of progression holes. The progression holes take care of the transition from the idle circuit and the main circuit which is probably where your car will spend most of its time. I suspect that all of the Webers of a series (referred to as "Typo" on the carb cover) have the same number, size, and position of progression holes but the standard recommendation is that when using more than one, you should not only use them from the same series or "Typo" but from the same batch as well so maybe I assume too much. FYI, the current series or "Typo" for 40 DCOEs is 151. For 45 DCOEs, it's 152. Real Webers are now made in Spain and I'm sure "Typo" is an Italian word so I don't know if a Spanish word is now used in place of "Typo."
I encourage anybody who is using or considering using Weber sidedraft carbs to sign up for https://vintagetechnologygarage.groups.io/g/sidedraft. I've also found the following websites useful:
https://240260280.com/Tech/Carbs/Weber/DCOE%20Theory%20Operation%20and%20Tuning.html
http://www.performanceoriented.com/troubleshooting (even though it is based on down draft applications for Porsches)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoUOcPYqDmU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meaGMoH4Pmw
I've also attached a white paper written by the moderator of the sidedraft group mentioned above. He has designed his own jets and emulsion tubes. I think he knows what he's talking about!
-
Welcome to the self-flagellation club. ;)
45's are likely to be unnecessarily difficult to tune for road use.
Chinese 45's may make them even more of an issue.
I've slowly learned that TS conversions have no actual support from Lotus or Renault, so will always be the most difficult path to success.
But I've also concluded that once that success is achieved is may exceed TC street level performance. ;D
-
A pair of 45DCOEs were the factory choice for the HO crossflows. Type and jetting is all in the manual and I can dig it up again if you like. This is for a big valve, large port head with 10.25+ compression and the factory performance cam. Myself, I went with 40s for more bottom end torque.
-
This head is not a large valve, however I do have another head that I will modify. Taking baby steps for now to get all the hardware in place. It’s only going to get more expensive in the future. I also have a 32dgv carb and manifold for it . I have not even checked the degree on the cam from Renault 16.
JB, thanks. I probably have the info from the book you recommended and from others. This is not a top priority right now, but I will seek that info later. It’s more collecting parts, I need to buy a fuel pressure regulator also . After buying two sets of 115 piece, m7 bolts from the uk I still need m7 manifold studs for the webers, the bolts were to long for the manifold but worked well for the water pump.
Getting closer to run the wedge, coolant water added with no leaks. Bled air for radiator and after 3 days maintaining water level. Now to do the tedious task of climbing under the ash and install the steering wheel and the db10 relay wires, then test. Buy a battery and mount. Finish ac lines. Install windscreen. After that go through the start up list .
Trying find the time to bring this over the finish line is killing me. I want to thank everyone for helping.
BDA, thanks for posting as lol the pertinent links on this thread.
Dakazman
-
Looking good Dman!
-
Normally Webers are mounted with flex mounts with Thackery washers or cushion and cup washers (r.d. enterprises has them. Go to “Carburetor” and then to “Mounts.”). They keep the fuel from foaming from engine vibration. The “Mounts” page explains how to use them.
-
BDA ,
Your absolutely correct on the flex mount gasket, the carb just came with paper gaskets . I was just getting all the mount bolts readied. The dual throttle cable mount may use those bolts also . I’ll have to buy that also.
The typo and all other marking on the carb are just not there , I’ll post more pics of the carb soon.
Turbo thanks also., funny I found this while researching an alpine r5. See pic There we’re others too.
Dakazman
-
The cover is distinctive. It’s a copy of the Spanish 45 DCOE 152.
-
You can fit large valves and port small valve heads, no problem. Very, very unlikely a R16 cam will be aggressive enough. easily reground though. Just use a pump that puts out the right pressure, Seen lots of problems with separate pressure regulators.
-
Just to make sure - you are taking about fuel pressure regulators, right? I’ve read a lot of complaints on the Interwebs. One guy I know had trouble with his too.
-
BDA,
It is definitely a copy , the cover is exactly the same as my Weber 40, except for the names . the metal looks like a different mixture , I’ll see what the internals look like soon.
Correct , fuel pressure regulator . I don’t know what pressure the stock mechanical pump on the wedge engine has for its Weber 40. Then the crossflow has no mechanical pump yet . It even looks like the lobe on the cam is not there. I’m assuming it had a plunger type regulator and I just can’t see the lift. I’ll put a dial indicator on it soon. 🥱
JB,
The other head is unmolested and in really good shape, no valves installed but has guides and seats.
That’s on the back burner. I’m also going thru many new sets of valves I picked up from Bert during his move that probably were for his S1 engine.
Dakazman
-
The stock mechanical pump is a low pressure, diaphragm pump. No need for a regulator. Not a bad idea to check the pressure with a gauge to be sure though.
-
(BDA asked if JB’s comment that he’d seen lots of problems with separate pressure regulators if he was referring to fuel pressure regulators)
Correct , fuel pressure regulator …
Dakazman
That solidifies my negative opinion of them then. Thanks for the confirmation.
-
Fairly far down the page this Europa has electric A/C DMan...made me think of your heating system...
https://blackshadowmotors.com/home/restoration/completed-cars/73-lotus-europa/
-
Turbo,
Thanks for posting that. I’m at the sorting out section - location and wire runs. Fabricating AC lines .
TBD - To Be Determined. Lol that’s an acronym for MC Donald Douglas aircraft corporation. I guess I can use it as I progress to the dashboard and window install.
Dakazman
-
The typo and all other marking on the carb are just not there , I’ll post more pics of the carb soon.
Remove a brass cover and take a pic of the progression holes.
That's where a lot of the differences reside.
Then the crossflow has no mechanical pump yet . It even looks like the lobe on the cam is not there. I’m assuming it had a plunger type regulator and I just can’t see the lift. I’ll put a dial indicator on it soon. 🥱
My 844 (EFI) engine has no provision for a mechanical pump on the head and no lobe on the cam, either.
Were the 843 Turbo engines similar?
Some Weber OEM's show two "Typo" numbers in sequence. I think the R12 Gordini is such a case. All it means in this instance was for the factory to be able to differentiate between front and rear carb in terms of some fittings. The jetting etc. is the same.
My original tame R16-TS engine ran 2 x Weber 40DCOE's which came originally from an Elan. It ran great and with rather impressive fuel economy as well.
Later, I extensively drove a mates more powerful 1647 crossflow engine with 2 x Weber 45DCOE's. It also ran great but the economy wasn't as good and it had a bit of a stumble going onto the main jets. I expect both aspects could have been improved with a little tuning diligence.
I still reckon the sweet spot for most of us is 40's and have a set of the older Dellorto 40 DHLA's just to try something different.
-
I'm happily running a pair of Dell 40DHLA-Es on my 1565 crossflow: pulls strong, great part throttle economy and no flat spots.
R12G 807-20 specs: Weber 45DCOE-38 and 45DCOE-39
34mm chokes
mains 125
air corrector 200
idle 55
accel nozzles 35
accel inlet 50
accel travel 10mm
needle and seat 1.5mm
Emulsion tube and idle jet holder is not listed (?) but I looked in my other books and found:
Renault R12G specs: Weber 45DCOE-68 45DCOE-69
Same as above except
aux venturi 4.5
emulsion tube F9
mains 135
idle 55f8
accel nozzles 45
accel inlet 60
float level 7mm
-
Thanks John, someone else was looking for those also. they seem to pertain to his problem.
What I want to share is that I'm back in my garage.
From my anniversary, November until after new years I can't do anything. stay tuned.
dakazman
-
I finally caught up with most of my projects to find the time to sand down the bonnet and polish it back up . A perfect rainy day. It’s been over 4 months since I did not like the reflection from the shrinkage of the clear coat again. Working with the veil solution and both the composite and the continuous strand are yielding very nice results.
With this and other projects out of the way I can settle back into this project. Funny thing I walked past the last pic and nearly lost my balance. 😃
Dakazman
-
Very nice!! It's about time for you to start spending some time on your baby!
-
BDA , I nearly passed out when my wife said to get it done.🥲 maybe I can make a car show in April.
It’s probably going to be short lived when the temps drop again on Saturday, that means back into the attic laying down insulation. This time going for 21 batts.
Dave
-
Alright! Time to get the wrenches out! :pirate:
-
I nearly passed out when my wife said to get it done.🥲 maybe I can make a car show in April.
That means it's on your Honey Do list now, so it has to take priority....😉
-
Lol, You must know it’s power!
Must have been a sudden glitch. There will be plausible deniability I’m sure.
The honey do list is endless.
Dakazman
-
Well , no glitch yet as long as I listen to a small list of things to do.
My carbs have been in for awhile, along with the soft mounts and a dual webers linkage assembly.
Instead of just mocking up things I got down to removing the one intake and carb to put on the base gaskets. After about an hour I found out there is a difference in the two and as fate would have it , the one I put on all ready belonged in the back. Then after removing it again I found a problem with a water jacket hole drilled through the base of the manifold. I thought I could put a different gasket on it to cover the hole but no joy there either. Then the saga with the m7 base bolt’s into head. The bolts I purchased were not threaded all the way so I’ll have to tap them and cut to size.
I can either weld it up or tap and plug the hole. Why would someone do that?
Then I noticed the manifold and the head need some blueprinting.
Well I have a starting point for tomorrow.
-
Nice work bench
-
Lol, that’s why I’m finishing thing instead of working on the Europa. I did however find my ac wiring problem and can now install the dash.
It’s my first time installing dual doce carbs . After getting through the intake problems and the blueprinting the head and gaskets. I managed to get both carb on . Almost! I had to trim off the throttle shaft off one carb, after that , “I got her done”.
I’ll go back in and tighten the carbs to specs after I install the throttle linkage. Hopefully it won’t take another 8 hours.
Dakazman
-
I assume you have your soft mounts and Thackery washers or cushions, right?
I don’t have any experience with that kind of linkage but I understand the one you have is very difficult to setup. My only data point is what Keith Franck of sidedraft central told me when in the course of a long discussion about some problem I was having, he suspected I had a linkage like yours. Rather than recreate what he said, I’ll just copy what he said:
From what I gather you have the exterior shaft linkage which uses spherical swivel joints? I keep telling my son just because you have an idea it might not be a good one and that linkage system is a prime example of that principle. I posted the other day about the used 151s having a hole out of round by about 0.5mm and they need to be repaired so the throttle shaft line up again to a gnat's ass tolerance. With that linkage the shaft which spans the carbs has to positioned to a gnat's ass too and that is not so easy. Plus the joints add play and make the movement between the carbs disjointed. This is not the KISS solution and if at all possible I would get rid of it and use the straight shot linkage between the carbs.
While the butterflies are near the progressive holes it is imperative that they move together in sync without any sloppiness. As the throttles are opened even more the manifold vacuum drops nearly to zero and then if the butterflies are out of sync it does not really matter all that much. These devices are precision instruments and need to kept in tip top shape.
If you end up looking for alternatives, rd enterprises has some options that Keith would approve of.
-
Thanks BDA , and yes soft mounts with special washers. In picture.
I purchased their single weber linkage and had no problems arise. By no means am I saying this will go the same way.Trust me , I will be reading that post over and over. I guess I should have asked more questions and glad RD has an alternate. It will be awhile before I run this motor.
Fuel lines soon, and I know you know them… any advice?
As you can see the front pulley isn’t connected to anything yet.😃. I also need to swap it to a side mount on the stand to turn motor and adjust valves and check the cam settings. Then open carbs and see what the difference is in these China carbs.
Another item is to block off the two water jacket holes under the alternator bracket. Apply sealant to water pump and other plates. I have all the proper bolts and washers for them now since the originals were all corroded. This stuff takes time, good thing it’s a hobby.
Dakazman
-
Am I seeing a step where your intakes join the head?
Appears the port may be smaller than the manifold?
Hopefully just my eyes deceiving me.
-
I made my own fuel lines but r.d. has a braided fuel loom that looks nice (you might check to see if there might be any issues with your application.
If you don’t have a synchronometer (https://www.ebay.com/itm/385299901597?epid=678723086&hash=item59b5a9ec9d:g:lbkAAOSw1VljnfiM&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA4Mkm5LI52cg7bwh4KpDpbRzq5uBZXC8BGm1OAeVMEMSKbfcRT3OGUXMcFdck0Wk89msdhowwFQX8qkejbIaK%2BLus7KBEmbqaA6Hl9n1mwSf8jGvAMsQzw4JHo03HJieNGaE5XBytgQ8KbNkIJV6hfNeQkqEL8s5B2jcjbB5%2BeA5D9unimNmrENQh4k1U5M6gnwybgM7bHYCB7V60MTit%2FEjbeFWynaAWOuth%2Bdae9fEbJhot%2B9dX0DhPt52gPXpT%2BisABi8zfWP7f%2B%2F7I61g2j7rXHTFcNFUJfRPKBT64lQG%7Ctkp%3ABFBM5oeko8xh) you should get one.
I would also would advise you to join https://vintagetechnologygarage.groups.io/g/sidedraft/topics. It’s difficult to diagnose issues via email but there is a wealth of information and experience with Webers there.
-
Am I seeing a step where your intakes join the head?
Appears the port may be smaller than the manifold?
Hopefully just my eyes deceiving me.
Yes Rich, there was a step, I tapered it out on all four ports. My machinist said not to polish but leave it semi rough. See pics finished ports
BDA,
I have an old sync tool , a floating ball type but I’ll check out your links. I have a bead lock crimp tool what do you think of that type s wedge on fuel lines?
Thanks 🙏
Dakazman
-
I still have a uni-syn (floating ball type) and there is no comparison with the STE synchronometer. I’m not familiar with s wedge so I can’t comment. I’m partial to stainless steel braided hose with red & blue ends (I guess I’m just a traditionalist!).
-
Interesting. Seems there are many variations of these heads.
On mine the ports are a little larger than the intakes so I will be able to match the intake to the ports.
Luckily the step is at the top of the manifolds.
My new gaskets match the intakes so I will have to open them up a bit too.
Not sure if I will work on the rough spot myself or have the head shop do it, $$$ may be an issue.
Your step was on the bad side so glad you were able to remove it.
-
I do not like the anchor point of the redline linkage. I’m about to secure the main shaft to the center bosses as pictured. I can also invert the entire rod to the lower side of the carbs. pic 4 is where the main shaft would need to be drilled out and tapped.
Any thoughts?
The distributor seems to have been modified to centrifugal all ready, but it’s an assumption. No vacuum module on it
Day
-
Interesting. Seems there are many variations of these heads.
I've seen it said that the 843 engine had smaller ports from the factory. Presumably that's associated with the turbo which we didn't get in Oz.
I can't recall if D'man is using an 843 (?) but if that's the case, would be interested in a measurement of the port at the head face.
Gentlemen, start your die grinders . . .
-
As emissions took hold, ports and valves got smaller, rods weaker, and compression lower. That's even between early and late 807-13 engines.
-
Gavin , yes it is an 843.
I all ready trim them but I have extra gaskets that were a perfect fit to the head. I also have another head that I’m going to check.
Dakazman
-
I’m back! Working inside the Europa first time since late November. I made a change to the placement of the temp controller so I pulled the dash out and and installed the ballast in the duct leading from the evaporator into cabin.
Dash back in and full steam ahead connecting the db20 leads and the steering column. Hopefully my body will bend enough to finish up the wiring.
Then adding the ac lines!
Last of the fiberglass door repairs with this one the most extensive.
Dakazman
-
I finally circled back to the Europa after finishing up several months of honey doos. Although they were somewhat related to cars but not the Europa. I also pulled my back slat muscles out so I didn’t put up a fight and glad not to get into the lotus position inside car.
I did make a small miscalculation in wiring run on two leads , missed by two inches but was able to slide the leads inside the harness to where I needed them. However I did some of this lying on my back on the floor, without a seat . Getting out was another challenge one that I don’t want to explore again.
All thought I did come up with an easy way to get around working under dash . I found a broken mirror in the garage , that’s my story and I’m sticking to it, deciding not to breakup and throw out found it to be an easy working solution. Now I can reach and see everything from outside the car.
I’m pretty used to working with mirrors so adapting was just a little learning curve.
Now for the steering column!
Dakazman
-
Great use of a busted mirror, D'man! I hope your back gets better so you can continue your progress on your baby!
-
Thanks BDA, its been way to long.
Finally getting rain here, we had no real accumulation in over four months. I'll be in the garage away from the lightening.
I thought I could install the steering column but I’ll need to trim the bracket I made for the flashers and led lighting. Tomorrow is another day.
Dakazman
-
:beerchug:
After 30 years the Europa has a steering wheel and column again!
I fabricated a 1/4 inch block to fit above the column mount, a member mentioned it being too high .
His father owned a lotus dealership so I took his advice, but what do I know. The studs seemed too long and looked like it would hit the tach/ speedo housing so it’s done.
I think it took me longer to get the horn contact ring wire to exit the hole in the column , after I encased all the other wires through a heat shrink shield.
I’m getting closer to installing the front windscreen but have a few other little jobs to do like connect all the column wires.
Hopefully I have more rain tomorrow 😂
Dakazman
-
Getting closer to done!
-
Getting closer to done!
Turbo, sometimes it feels that way , then your 2 steps back.
I'm at a cross roads , do I install the crash pad or windscreen? I'm not done with the demister vents which is the only thing I can see holding the crashpad in which look to be a b**** to install later.
I did not get to work on the europa today because my tiberon developed a leaking clutch slave cylinder. I'm not bummed out by it because I installed a new one and also got my el camino A/C to hold vacuum. to further my great day all my efforts to have no oil dripping from the power steering reservoir on the elky and timing chain cover are gone.
dakazman
-
Don't the four big chrome screws along the top of the dash also go through the front edge of the crash pad to hold it in? (I haven't reassembled, so might have the wrong assembly image)
-
That’s right. The vinyl from the crash pad needs to have holes drilled/poked into it for the screws. I’m not sure how the front is secured. My memory from long ago was that was a problem with them and that some pop riveted it down where the windshield lays in front of the crash pad. Maybe glue would be better. I haven’t looked to see what the manual says.
-
The crash pad I had was deteriorated badly, if it had four tangs that came behind the wood dashboard
We’re gone. I made a crash pad modeled after what I had . It is not stock, nor a pad. It’s a glass mold and painted gloss black.
I could cut it to the lower surface and add the L bracket if needed. Thanks for calling it those mounts.
Bda, the de mister vents are in and secured. Then the crash pad… secured only by the the thin demister covers, with Phillip head screws. I’m going to make my own covers and use Allen screws to secure to the fiberglass under the entire assembly.
I found some pictures .. but I thought I was just going to lay it on top of base and secure as stated above.
Dakazman
-
Don't the outside front corners fit under the lower lip of the windshield mounting lip? I thought something tucked under there.
-
I don’t know. I vaguely remember any of the interior from 30 years ago. Speedo says 86000 more like 286k for the condition I bought it. Lol $ 1,000 with blown motor and no ashtray.😂
Dakazman
-
Made some headway today after doing some weekly chores. Vacuum pressure on my elky were still perfect. I took BDAs advice and stayed focused on my wiring up the steering column. All was going well until I got to the ignition leads … dang , I put those tied leads on the fuse side of tunnel. I made a flag note saying fuse on the white wire and when setting the dash just put it there.
After crisis averted routed to the left side without taking much apart. The rest was easy.
Then the skies opened up and the hail started pounding on everything. That was it for the day, with only 3 more connections to make. Storms expected to end about 10pm.
Dakazman
-
After 30 years, I managed to dig a path to the windscreen. After a bad experience with a side window and knowing the replacement cost i slowly lifted it to a platform while standing on the floor joists.
Then down a set of wooden pull down stairs.
Now safely on a stand, and I notified my wife not to go near it, and the price. 😂 now to dig out the seal and trim.
Dakazman
-
Dave, I don't know if you've seen this dash pad write-up. But it mentions and shows the top chrome screws and tucking the front corners under the body. Hope it helps.
Ken
-
Thanks Kendo,
I noticed the securing of the flimsy bezel problem, and mentioned it to Sandy long ago. I fabricated a fiberglass bezel that I could use as a mold to making more. Recently I covered it with composite veil.
That is where it’s at right now. I’ll probably replace the Phillip screws with Allen’s, and use rivnuts as anchors.
My S2 had the rubber seal around windscreen, so I’ll dig it out of storage and mimic the cuts on the new seal from RD. The bottom of the glass doesn’t have a lip so I’ll have to read up a little more on how to add the locking trim on the lower side into the sealant or just leave it out completely.
The old rubber may give me some clues.
Dakazman
-
Found the original seals for the windscreen. It matches up with the direct glazed windscreen procedures in the manual. The new seal from RD has an internal lip that catches the body flange edge, just like the rear window seal .
The lower center would still have to be done as in the manual, with the fact I will need to trim out the internal lip. The new seal on bottom will be secured to the sealant with ac-251 sealant, that we use regularly on aircraft windows that fly at 32000 ft pressurized. So I think it should hold so that the chrome locking strip will go around the entire window. It does, with new seal allow the headliner to be tucked in neatly when window in.
Before installing window I’ll also tint the inner side so it mimics newer installed windows. I also have a lotus sun screen to go on but will have to evaluate it.
The bezels for the defrosters can be just secured to my crash pad and I will definitely have to come up with a way to secure it so that I do have to pull out the window. Maybe just glass them on permanently since they won’t be in view from the outside.
Then some other details to work on stencil for dip switch and turn signals . The other misc is trying to find an exterior rt side door handle for my 2000 Hyundai tiberon , one available on eBay but at 199$ for a used one seems steep.
Dakazman
-
Step by step , inch by inch…
Working on the demisters grilles, plan B , ordered some aluminum 1/4” plate back in December and had it sitting by waiting to get formed. I still have to add the studs to anchor them in from the bottom of the crash pad. Then figure out a way to secure the crash pad from the inside at any time.
Battery also went in and some signs of life sprouting.
Dakazman
-
Just an fyi on the demister grilles. The originals are so weird in geometry because the plastic deforms to the crashpad. I don't know how your aluminum will do. Obviously, they won't deform but the crashpad will.
They look nice though.
-
Thanks Paul,
My crash pad is fiberglass Mat, on top of foam core.The original vents are still original in place . Plan is to squeeze the aluminum grilles onto the pad the entire pad will be attached on the sides just outside of the vents . Plan b is to add a base dead center, maybe for timers or a mirror to hold the entire unit. The glass side will have window dash edge seal.
I may have to paint the aluminum to stop glare .
Dave
-
I’ll take a milestone day today. After installing the battery and new leads I decided to turn the key and see what happens, 😁. Starter cranked the engine over easily. It’s really nice to hear it coming alive. Posted it on instagram
.
Then I added a grounding bar below dash to easily get to terminals. Tomorrow add some fuses into the new fuse holder.
Secured the demister grilles so they float until tightened down. I’ll have to get some chrome acorn nuts . I tried to tap a 10- 32 without going thru the 1/4 “ plate but it just wasn’t happening. I think it should be good enough and I’m moving on to securing the pad to the subframe. Two wing nuts thru a bracket on both sides is the easiest. Then I’ll add veil to the top area to mirror it out while cutting in the windscreen seal.
Dakazman
-
You have to love milestones!!! :beerchug:
-
Details, details, details.
Next time I’ll stick to strictly stock, I added some rivnut anchors to the back of my crash pad that is non conventional, all fiberglass finish. So that just needs some mild tweaking and brackets added to the dash mount brackets. It will be secured by 2 1/4 inch bolts.
Added the console and wired up the window switches but yet again wire in the electric heater that’s controlled by the original heater on/off lever but now electrical thru a relay . Which I added a complete relay panel next to the main fuse panel.
The rest is led mood lighting and windscreen washer switch 😁
Dakazman
-
I like it! (What's the fun in "stock"?)
-
Turbo, your probably correct, but fun would be driving it sooner 😁
Dave
-
I agree with that!
-
I thought it would be easy....
I clearly didn't allow for poor eyesight, seeing the difference with a gw and a gp shining a light doesn't help. Any way, just venting a bit because some switches that were good with a continuity check, failed with voltage applied. I decided to go through each circuit separately. found some switches only work in a up position and not down. Windows do work now that I found that gremlin. Their were others, more brand new switches not working with power on. Its not all doom and gloom, 50 percent work, some work but don't shut off, some stopped working, some were wired wrong. ( yes I hate to admit that one,... Interruptions,... Maybe, but I will fess up to it.)
Lets just say I'm immersing myself in all thing lucas.
Dakazman
-
Lets just say I'm immersing myself in all thing lucas.
As long as it's not Lucas smoke it'll be fine...
-
Ran into this little gremlin,one of the PO’s installed a rubber 5 pin straight thru connection to the ignition switch, basically ganging them together. It works when individual circuits were tested separately however they don’t play nice when connected within the connector. WTS, I guess the hi beams get hot thru the dip switch and turn indicators, headlights, horn all went through it. Only 3 showed continuity. Yes it was strange, but I didn’t keep them in the same slot in connection so I cannot diagnose the reason for to meltdown.
Lol , JB answered it perfectly on groups.
Don’t use used rubbers! 🥱😂
Installed the individual connections at the ignition switch with much more predictable outcomes.
Dakazman
-
Horn button question, what is the purpose of this copper clip? Is it to hold the push button section from falling out ? How is it secured ? Inside or outside the cap? Can it be removed and put back together?
It doesn’t seem to be sitting correctly and presses on just one side. Is that correct?
Dakazman
-
Believe that is the ground and retainer, at least the ones I have dealt with in other single pin horn buttons. Check it continuity when button pressed.
-
Kram,
Good continuity. Don't pull it out . It is spring wound around inside the cap . If I could, I would thke it out and paint under the lotus emblem, which
now I can see thru below the plastic cap. It likely touches the outer edge of the steering but the 3 prong holder is the ground along with the spring loaded contact in the ring below.
Dakazman
-
Cleaning up some wire runs and simplifying the connections by labeling the connection blocks and adding them to the schematic drawing. As you can see some connections are missing at the DB10 component. I’ll be coming out with the changes soon on the schematic. This is a S2 fed but can be done on other vehicles with the DB10 .
This is my answer for that area.
Dakazman
-
It feels good to get back to the wiring, most circuits now working and some need more troubleshooting. Hazard, headlights, turn signals all work now but the one problem I have that I’m concerned about is the oil pressure light will not extinguish , the oil pressure gauge pegged high and seems to have overheated.pic4 The oil warning was not hooked up yet on the sensor. So what is the sensors normal position?
I turned the headlight switch so that off is down and added another red lead to term 3 to power Headlight side . Another big tool I used was to make 8- 16” extensions for the DB10 relay so it could be attached when dashboard pulled away to access the connections. Pic 1.
I’m asking some S2 fed owners if they have a hazard flasher connector as I have pictured? The plug does not agree with the prints wire colors. Pic 2-3. The 35 year old flasher’s still worked..🥱
Next is to add a manual radiator fan switch to override the temp sensor and to get the FLV fan to work with my ac control. Than the ac compressor.
Then figure out why the starter won’t crank the engine anymore 🤔 battery is very old but using it to test everything. It does turn by hand.
Making progress.
Dakazman
Dakazman
-
Oil pressure gauge should not "peg", or burn out. Check the instrument voltage regulator. Could you have crossed wires between the Oil light switch and the oil pressure sensor?
-
Thank for answering JB,
I got the overheating problem from the Jaguar, smiths, YouTube university as a common problem.
Hence my concern.
I didn’t have the WN (👍corrected) wire to the dual oil pressure warning sensor. The G is going to the brand new stabilizer and the LGU to the single connector oil pressure xmitter. Hopefully I wasn’t confusing them.
I did just clean the gauge up years ago but didn’t go inside, so i opened it up , not too good of shape.
I may have an extra, but in the meantime I’ll check out the voltage stabilizer .
Are the sensors normally open or closed to ground , I’m assuming, pressure NC and warning NO.
Dakazman
-
The gauge is full sweep when grounded and 0 when open.
The oil light switch is grounded at rest and open above 7 to 12 psi.
Just to avoid future confusion, WB = White with a Black tracer (feed from coil to distributor, and tach feed in later cars), WN = White with a Brown tracer (oil light switch or gauge). Usually British cars with oil pressure gauges don't have oil light switches. I like oil pressure warning lights, and I like them BIG and BRIGHT. I'm not a fan of electric oil pressure gauges without the addition of an oil light as the electric gauges are slow to react. YMMV
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-d5cmGnn/0/X5/i-d5cmGnn-X5.jpg)
-
🥱 listening to your wife and typing struck again…😂 thanks for the color code correction. I’ll go back and change it .
Absolutely a bright ass light and warning horn.
Funny but maybe it’s the reason why the PO blew the engine
Dakazman
-
Sometimes it doesn’t save time to jump around or put things off .
Problem, Lol, won’t crank. 🥱. It’s good to laugh at yourself sometimes, especially at my age.
See pic
Dakazman
-
As far as the temperature gauge not reading correctly is I understand correctly,I ran into a similar problem with my Tiger. The temperature gauge read 20 degrees low.
Anyway, I hooked up a 10k, 10 turn potentiometer to replace the sender to ground. Then, turn on the ignition, (remove power to the coil), and then adjust the potentiometer resistance to a value which corresponds to a defined temperature. I found the values online here. Compare the gauge needle to the temperature you are simulating.
http://lotus-europa.com/manuals/misc/electrical/gaugeinfo.html
This test tells you whether the error is with the sender or the gage/voltage stabilizer. In my case, the gage/stabilizer was very accurate but some previous owner had installed the wrong resistance sender.
-
Purchased a close look alike from an eBay seller. Received a second gauge from them after they shipped the wrong one . They were very apologetic and covered everything.
Received this today and after I finished cutting my lawn, swimming and napping I’ll start disassembling it to swap out the faceplates. Then dig around to find the other senders I have around here somewhere. Then test before installing. It’s sweltering down here with 100 % humidity. Not quite painting weather. I did however supply ac to my garage 😁
Dakazman
-
I dissembled the original Smiths 2207 gauge with a 2201 from early Jaguars according to Jaguar-lovers.com. The sender at $17 and gauge at $21 this should work. I thought it was going to be an easy swap out of the face legend of the “OIL” so I tried leaving the other legend in place and overlay the 2207 , not happening. So I had to remove the glass holder from the 2201, jag gauge and add the ring of the number legend of the 2207 after cutting around the legend leaving a ring to seat the glass .
Then found this info :
Just watch out for a mismatch. Some of the early senders were bimetallic and switched to 10V and ground. The 10V was supplied via another regulator behind the instrument panel. Those matching gauges were interested in the average current. They were actually very elegant and responded smoothly due to the thermal time constants involved.
If you have a variable resistance sensor, mated to the wrong gauge, then may not work at all accurately. According to the MG forum, they expect 110mA for 100PSI and 84mA for 50PSI and 20mA for 0PSI. Logarithmic.
But this has been recorded elsewhere in the Jag archives:
C68A8EFAA4854003B41C9C066BACC811.png
SENDER:- “PTR1001/10ec 700kN/m(squared)”
Pressure(psi), Resistance(Ohms) : 0 290 , 10 264 , 20 226 , 30 188 , 40 154 , 50 122 , 60 95 , 70 76 , 80 55 , 90 37 , 100 20
GAUGE:- ACP2203/00 (100psi)
· “B” to “T” = 240ohms
· “T” to “0V” = 326ohms
Dakazman
-
Pretty clever, D'man! I hope it works as good as it looks!
-
While waiting…
Started cleaning and prep on a new block from Paul Z , thanks Paul.
My question to engine builders is what to seal the water jacket section of the block from corrosion.
I did search of sealers but came up with this study by motor trend.
https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/hrdp-0612-engine-coatings/
And this product,
https://www.amazon.com/Hi-Temp-Lab-Metal-24-oz/dp/B003YESZM4/ref=asc_df_B003YESZM4/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=385545944042&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6119528566192261870&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9011840&hvtargid=pla-820325541822&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=79758197438&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=385545944042&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6119528566192261870&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9011840&hvtargid=pla-820325541822
Just trying to stop or slow the corrosion. I previously used a sealant that is added in with the antifreeze as an additive in my van after I found that the intake manifold rotted out at the thermostat.
Okay I’m going overboard again with the polishing 🥴🥱
Dakazman
-
I don't know anything about sealants you might need but your block sure looks purty!!
-
Thanks BDA ,
All ready checked the crankshaft and head bolts by torquing in place before proceeding this time.
My update,
Down to the last circuit, white wire, to engine and AC lines , but running through a separate fuse and relay box under dash. . Then to start.
Dakazman
-
Let’s finally hear some noise out of that bad boy!
-
Not sure I'd worry about an anti-corrosion "coating" per se.
My original 1470 engine had been poorly treated and sustained some corrosion damage due to lack of inhibitors in the cooling system. People commonly used just plain water back then out of ignorance, I suspect. My crossflow engine was much better for having used a glycol based corrosion inhibitor.
These days there's some 'long life' coolants around and I've graduated to those. They are often blue in colour - Volvo, BMW and many other OEM's have branded versions.
-
Thanks guys,
Appreciate the input.
Now , how about adding a 5/8 threaded nipple in the back of block routed back to the water pump?
There is plenty of room and I believe it would help cooling. I remember a conversation about a modification to the head doing the same . Just spitballing!
Dakazman
-
Bypassing the rad? How would that help with cooling?
-
Bypassing the rad? How would that help with cooling?
No JB , not bypassing the rad, from the lower forward block to the outlet side of water pump to rad.
Isn’t there a relief line in the forward side of the head on some engines ? I have a plate on the head of the 843 crossflow that was used for something.
I don’t believe it would disrupt the flow of coolant in head but rather cycle it faster.
Dakazman
-
I think you are pointing at the outlet for the heater. Coolant will flow out there and back into the fitting you plan on putting in the block. You are just bypassing the rad.
Some bypassing flow is a good idea for quicker warm ups and maintaining flow though the engine so you don't get hot spots during warm up. That's why there is a small bypass already built into the pump.
-
Thanks JB , but one more question, then the other side of the water pump is the inlet side of the heater creating a hot flow per day in a cycle. Okay that makes sense, and would not really cool down water temps except with the addition of the heater radiator.
Case closed.
I did find the small cavity that supplies the water temp clogged on this engine
The temp gauge probably still worked reading metal temps. I recommend removing your temp gauge sender and make sure water flows out.
I also received some feedback on sealing the block using evans coolant, and PRV 880 that I don’t believe will hold up with the heat. Still looking for marine applications that cycle salt water thru. The outdrives . They are aluminum cases that really need corrosion control.
Dakazman
-
In the 60s and 70s, most North American shops didn’t have a clue about using the correct coolant with an aluminium engine. Truth be told, the coolant back then wasn’t actually that good either and needed to be changed often. It usually wasn’t which gave disastrous results — yet another thing to blame on those darn foreigners. Anyway, modern coolant is actually very good; lasts a long time, too. If you are in a warm place mix 40% antifreeze with 60% water and you’ll be fine. Colder? Go 50/50. Really $&@# cold? 60% antifreeze and 40% water.
-
Finishing up some wiring and found my electric heater that is now hooked up on its own circuit going thru 40 amp relay
with 10 gauge wire is getting hot to the touch, but can hold onto covering on the supply side . matching 10 gauge ground on the other side .
using what looks like two 16 gage wires that were original into the two heating elements all original.
Should I be weary of this or should I recheck all connections or/and increase the internal grounds?
Its really my first circuit that I used a relay in , soldered in all leads going into relay. relay is on unit with less than 6"of 16 gauge. When testing off battery direct it drew 32amps and wires were also hot , but now just a bit hotter.
Dakazman
-
What is the current rating of the relay?
-
They are rated 12V 40 amps, 5 pin , I purchased them off eBay as a 5 pack. Holder and relay with short lead. I un crimped and soldered in the connectors afterwards.
Dakazman
-
I don't think a relay rated at 40 amps can actually take a steady 40 amp load; a momentary load like a horn or starter, sure.. I would fit a 70 amp relay for a steady high load like that. A 70 amp relay also has larger connectors to better handle the load. Same with the wiring, 8G will reduce the heat produced by the high current. Is your battery still in the back? High currents require thicker wire to cover a long distance.
That said, you have a "free" source of heat sitting right behind you. Using it puts no extra load on the engine. In fact it helps with the wee-bit marginal cooling system. Your system adds load and heat to make heat. YMMV
-
JB, agreed, thinking of a plan “XYZ” for another time .
For now I think it may be just having these connections to close to one another.
Pic1 bypassing the relay , wire that I’m pointing to stayed hot After running directly to the element. The white connector and the two red leads are from the mfg.
Pic 2
Deleted the short red lead that I had going into the relay , for testing, wires and connections cool as can be after several minutes.
Pic 3, The short lead did have a mismatch of terminals , large to smaller spade that I thought would be the culprit but that not it because the pic 2 terminals are mismatched.
Pic 4 , I dissected the covering and checked my soldered joint. Wire was from the mfg and could be at fault now that I’m writing about it .
Dakazman
-
Bingo,
Cut into the shielding of manufactures terminal wire , broken strands everywhere.
I’ll post back when repaired.
Dakazman 😁
-
This might fix it . new 10 gauge, soldered terminals going back in to the relay from the disconnect.
Fingers crossed.
Dakazman
-
After my afternoon nap, assembled and tested for 10 minutes, wires as cool as can be. Not even warm.
So now I just have to wire in the ac compressor and condenser fan into its new relay box. It contains another battery fed position and several ignition fed positions. I’m really interested in just one right now and that’s the engine circuit.
Dakazman
-
:beerchug:
-
Since I'm still waiting on a correct sensor for my oil pressure gauge I found an interesting thread by JB , not the JB we all know.
he has a lot of good info if you scroll thru his site.
https://europa70.wordpress.com/2013/12/11/smiths-oil-pressure-gauge/
This one is on oil pressure gauges and senders but , link to his other items... here also
https://europa70.wordpress.com/author/jjbunn/page/2/
Dakazman
-
Good stuff, D'man! Here's some more gauge stuff: http://lotus-europa.com/manuals/misc/electrical/gauges.html
-
Thanks again, Greg.
Today I spent some time on the Oil Pressure Warning and Oil Pressure gauge senders.
Pic 1, shows both senders, starting with the smaller "Warning" sensor which is normally closed (NC) switch hooked to the White/Brown WB lead.
Pic 2, shows an adapter I use to test for air leaks in in ac lines before adding freon. After hooking up I pressurized the sensor to 30 psi continuity now
open, and beeping from meter stopped. Depressurized line beeping sounded , TEST GOOD. This would turn back on the warning light. So what
pressure does the warning light extinguish?... 10 PSI according to my compressor gauge.
Pic 3, is an article comparing Oil pressure and water temp, I'm adding it in here to show the similarity of the water temp and oil warning sensor.
Difference with naked eye being the water temp sensor does not have a cavity in the internal sensor pickup.
I'm posting this part now so I don't loose it again. I'll post the Oil Pressure sender next.
Dakazman
-
Received my Jaguar xj6 sender which should check out with the gauge. Testing with air pressure tomorrow. Found in my treasure trove the connectors needed.
Then I added some fuel to my aux tank and cranked engine enough to find out I have oil pressure.
I was expecting it, so I had a drip pan available .. I’ll check the fuel to carb tomorrow.
I found TDC and will hook up ignition leads again tomorrow after checking the point gap.
I WANT SOME NOISE!
Dakazman
Ps hopefully not a bang!
-
Your sender is almost as shiny as your engine!
Hoping for noise at your house tomorrow (no bangs!)!
-
BDA, Thanks. That is just Paul Z’s block that I’m using for the block that needs a line bore. Cleaning it up a little. Then I’ll go bigger on the next set of liners and pistons. In my spare time of course.😂
I even cleaned up a bit more and laminated another facia panel to get rid of a piece of veneer I had as extra. I also have a complete set of gauges for it from India . It will make a nice desktop display.
Then I painted my bikes front fender that had a nick in it, but it’s very time consuming masking off the flame designs .
Dave
-
Noise today? Fingers crossed……
-
Started working on it this afternoon. Closed up all the oil channel passages and found TDC to set points and find distributor cap rotation. All was going to plan until my coil got hot. WB wire from coil on + to distributor. W wire from tach to neg - coil side, no carb heater. disconnected battery letting it cool down while I check all the runs. All check good per Wiring diagram and other posts.
What is going on? ..., Bad Coil?
Dakazman
-
No noise yet but getting closer. :pirate: I also verified I have fuel pressure to carb. :trophy:
I found my points shorted to ground...somewhere. I guess I messed up something inside the distributor when reassembling it . Finding ground on both legs of the points was one of YouTube universities T/S suggestions. Its been a long time since I worked on points and couldnt remember if you can see the spark there.
Dakazman
-
I just don't feel the love anymore!
Its not a ground issue after pulling up wiring schematics. Coil still suspect. However maybe I should join the pertronics club.
Hemmings has this article :
https://www.hagerty.com/media/maintenance-and-tech/ignition-debate-points-vs-pertronix/
Bottom Line , NO SPARK :help: :help: :help:
Dakazman
-
Not that it makes much difference to your issue, WB from the distributor goes to the coil’s negative terminal. W goes to the coil positive.
If the WB wire is shorted to ground, it will get hot along with the coil.
Disconnect things at the distributor until you find where it is going to ground.
- condenser?
- points moving arm it properly insulated?
- wire shorted to ground?
- insulated connection on distributor not actually insulated.
Should be pretty easy to isolate where the issue lies.
-
Hi JB,
Replaced condenser .
Swapped out to another coil.
The new one got a little hot but no way near the other one . I may have left it in the ign position to long yesterday and today I was a little more conscious about not leaving it on .
Disconnect the WB from coil - to distributor terminal along with the condenser lead , no ground on floating side of points, other side (stationary contact grounded. This is supposed to be normal. As soon as I attach the WB to coil - and the condenser lead. With points open I get ground on both sides because it runs to coil -
The stationary side of the points seems like it cannot be ungrounded. Which is what some wiring diagrams show . Where am I supposed to loose the ground?
Lol, after writing this I realized how to check . Duh I’ll leave the coil - off and turn distributor rotor while checking continuity. Disconnecting the leads to points as I go along.
Dakazman
-
Vehicle wiring is not like electronics. Using a digital multimeter throws up all sorts of red herrings because they are so damn sensitive.
Turn the engine over until the points are open. Turn on the ignition. Use a test light with an incandescent bulb and test for power at coil + and coil -. Test at the distributor connection and at the moveable point. All light up the bulb? You don’t have any stray grounds. Bulb doesn’t after testing the W wire? Then you have a stray ground. Don’t replace things! Disconnect things until you find where the issue is.
-
Thanks again JB,
No shorts to ground, however no spark from plug wires to a ground. Alas , the rotor seems to be why.
I checked with another rotor from the 843 and found this strange. See pics
Even though I don’t see any cracks in the rotor main tab it is definitely open, whereas the 843 rotor has continuity.
Tried the 843 rotor in place of the 821’s , still no spark.
I did order a new cap and rotor years ago but it was not for either engine and forgot to put on my items to buy. Lol I went through a box of parts inside boxes I stored for years by the po , all junk! 😡
Tried to also use the 843 cap but its main center contact is missing 🙃🥱. RD will be getting my order soon.
Dakazman
-
Pull the coil wire out of the distributor cap. Hold it a 1/4” away from the engine. Crank the engine. Spark or no spark?
-
I only get a spark when I release the key off crank.
dakazman
-
Is there power at the coil when cranking?
-
Before about 12v. I will double check tomorrow. Measuring 6.22 ohms both ways on coil from center to -& + . When moving distributor to open points I get good spark across points.
Ordered coil, rotor and cap from RD .
THen with all the cranking water pump main shaft started leaking.
I can’t win!
Dakazman
-
Better it leaks now than later. All part of the fettling phase.
Measure your coil's resistance across the "+" and "-" terminals.
-
JB, going back to yesterdays question 10.98 volts on + coil side in run position .... ZERO when cranking.
the coil thats in now 12.59 on p and s and 0.01 ohms across , yesterdays was 6.22 p and s OL across
Dave
-
5 to 4 ohms is a good choice for points. 3 ohms will work but your points won’t last as long. 3 ohms works well with Pertronix. 6 ohms is a bit out there.
0.01 ohms! May I suggest either a metering range error or a cheap meter? Cheap meters ar usually way off in the resistance measurement. Voltage is not that great either. I have seen them 15% off. That’s 1.5v+ when checking the charging system!
You’ve found the problem now. Fix that and you’ll have spark.
-
The 35 year old Sperry has been acting up after I lent it out. Maybe I should also change the 9v battery. The harbor freight feebee has been working better. I’ll dig out my Simpsons too .What is really nice is working with test light’s which are frowned upon for commercial aircraft. You are allowed to use test boxes that have calibrated bulbs. :FUNNY: Your suggestion to use test lights. 👍👍Using two, one one each side of car is helpful.
The new coil, distributor caps , rotors and a slew of new rubber connectors . Also a variety of bullet connectors.
The new water pump is due tomorrow.
While sitting and looking at the wiring diagram I see that the ignition switch should be grounded.
Mine is just laying there on the carpet.🤔🤔 another question I have is what is the internal connections through the start relay w2 connection.
I’ll also be double checking the ignition switch to harness connections , heavy spade connections with rubber boots that are not shown on the wiring print . See pic. Maybe the spades are just laying next to each other.
Tomorrow is another day.
Dakazman
-
The ignition switch would only be grounded for a “key-in-ignition” warning buzzer. Nothing to do with its real function.
-
Took the day off , a little under the weather, I think it’s a Chinese flu called ,”Dragon Ass”.
But seriously, getting better and ready to get going again. I think I used more sick days at work in one year than 5 years retired. :FUNNY:
Dakazman
-
:trophy:
Even though I hooked up the new ignition switch incorrectly, I'll give myself a trophy for finding it. The new switch has no labeling of the connectors that i can see and I think in my defense that I used the wire coloring that the switch came with. only swapping out my original harness wires to the switch.
I believe that was my mistake. Terminals 1 and 4 were swapped, now when I go to crank, I do not loose voltage. Correction, the white term wires were on the wrong terminal and with all the interruptions I'm surprised I wrote this.
I would have tried to start but severe thunderstorms are overhead as hurricane idiada approaches.
I will also add a lead to term 4 in red wire with a bullet connector for some later addition. getting gid of the spade terms and replacing with bullet connectors will be a plus.
I just want this to start. I will video it.
Dakazman
-
I wondered if you would be affected by the hurricane. Stay dry :)
And congrats on finding the switch miswiring.
-
Thanks Kendo
Looks like just the outer bands skirting the coast with no significant winds. Hopefully no Tornados, that are the real threat.
also, I'm wishing all Floridians a safe outcome.
Dakazman
-
Yes! All you in Florida stay safe!!
-
BDA ,👍👍
Here are some. Current state of things.
My new water pump came in along with some items that died last week . My GMC van ignition color broke off and the power window motor main gear sheared and glass dropped down. The water pump can wait until after engine break in. 🤞🤞
Made an adapter for the crankcase filter.
These spade connectors not shown on the S2 wiring diagram need to be converted to bullet connectors.
Dakazman
-
I Have Spark!
Spent the day or as many un-interrupted hours going through the start sequence through the ignition switch. The S2 and other wiring diagrams may be wrong, switch terminals are labeled 1-2-3-5 .
My moss motors switch pictured had the term 3-5 switched. So if you buy a new ignition switch make sure your leads are on term 3 not terminal 5. so change your prints terminal,.. 4,... which is NON- EXISTANT to term 5
I couldn’t tell if these connections were good so I cut them out and inserted bullet connectors instead. After doing these changes I have a very loud audible spark. 😀
I added the red wire for future connections.
Tomorrow I’ll open my garage doors and push my baby outside and attempt to start.
Maybe I can get my wife to go shopping so she doesn’t see all the smoke. My MGA with all the WD40 in it after starting I couldn’t see in a one car garage , hopefully that won’t happen again.
Dakazman
-
Awesome!!
-
Success!
After 40+ years this was the first time ever I heard this car run.
Posted to Instagram Christinekaczmarek71
Kept to to a minimum and will adjust the valves again. A better return spring on the throttle cable also.
I was also shocked when I heard the Weber kick in a bit, since it too was a first rebuild.
I just want to Thank our community here for making this happen.
Dakazman
-
Excellent!! :beerchug:
I don’t have an instagram account. Why don’t you post it to YouTube?
-
Try this
https://youtu.be/ft4f_4LivHo?feature=shared
Thanks again everyone!
Dave
-
Woohoo! :pirate: :blowup:
Now it’s time for :BEER3: !
-
:beerchug:
-
....and dialing in the timing, after tightening up the water pump belt.
-
Congrats! :pirate: :beerchug:
-
Congrats, Dave. :beerchug:
-
....and dialing in the timing, after tightening up the water pump belt.
Thanks Rich, I was putting off the belt adjustment because I knew I needed a new water pump. That is where all the strange sounds came from during my run up .
I set the choke cable and increased the idle stop, replaced the water pump and will do another start. I had a friend powder coat another pulley set so now I'll go through the belt adjustment.
I had to re-drill these pulleys to conform to a R15 or 17
dakazman
-
After the initial startup I could not get it to fire off , alas, a kinked fuel line on my makeshift temporary fuel tank. Also , loose spark plugs, that I loosened to turn engine easier..🥴and plug wires not to properly connected… checking for spark and brand new they don’t go on easy.
Enough excuses!
Plugs were somewhat wet. A learning curve for me when starting. Choke cable does have a bit of an indentation when off that it was not in .
While checking each plug for spark engine was wanting to start but I did not allow it.
Oil pressure gauge at 0 , and warning light on all the time . I decided to install a temp mechanical gauge before running to break in. Found all the connectors but now waiting on a material for line.
Cleaning up wiring and enjoying my air conditioned garage was another reason not to run it.
Dakazman
-
I noticed one of my local auto parts stores has an exhaust hose for routing the exhaust out of the garage, ~$100 IIRC. I've been thinking of getting it when I reach the point of actually starting the car. With that, you might get to keep your airco going :)
PS: I don't know if it works, or if I'd kill myself with CO in due time...
-
Productive day today. My makeshift oil pressure gauge came to life . In Bar so I had to translate to pounds, hitting 4 bar at startup. Forgot to look at my electric gauge when running but with key on its reading high.
I also got a glimpse of my tachometer coming alive as the engine started and ran up to 2k before
going blah.. stall . I need to do more reading on this 40 dcoe and review my notes from the tear down.
If I get it to idle I’ll put a timing light on it. Till then I’ll see if I want to install the front window keep searching for other things to fix on it.
Another small setback is the coolant tank filler neck is leaking slightly. So I’ll pull I out and resolder.
Dakazman
-
Woohoo!! Another step in your journey!! :pirate:
At 2000 rpm, if you didn't get there by blipping your throttle such that you'd work your accelerator pumps, you're probably into the main circuit and mostly if not totally out of the idle circuit. Beyond that, I'm probably not going to be helpful.
There are two videos that have been helpful to me (admittedly I was working on my idle, though). You may also find them helpful:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoUOcPYqDmU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meaGMoH4Pmw (to do this, you must have fuel pressure)
-
Awesome! 8)
-
Thanks guys 😀
It’s been really exciting to see all the parts becoming a car.
My path keeps changing but it’s still baby steps. Choosing which job to do without having to re-do is the goal. My next big job will be pulling the gearbox out and replacing the clutch and pressure plate with a kit from RD being delivered as we speak .
I should make a list but I’m not a list guy , I just do the jobs in my head at night.🥴🥱 it’s more like what can I finish or what part will give me more room to work.
Dakazman
Ps : I was watching the first video last night. Lol 😂
-
Thanks BDA for the video's, I got to watch them and then went to work outside and tested. a little longer run than before but not getting into Idle.
Then I watched this segment on idle and progression.
https://youtu.be/vfG9aB5ZNpM?si=B2CvjFv9_yiTAvCU
Can’t wait to watch the rest of this segment.
I also am glad I document my build and from way back in March 2021 found my notes where some of my answers on the rebuild of the 40 were talked about.
DCOE.
http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=2058.1380
I'm guessing I'm getting way to much fuel and into the progression phase, going on from there before checking float levels. since I cant get Idle.
I managed to get a good distributor position for now, and some other items fixed. Added the bonnet to the car, next maybe the windscreen.
dakazman
-
D3SShooter is pretty good. He has a more in-depth series on Weber DCOEs starting here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHGSZtVhbx0). Basically, he tells you some of what is in the Weber Tuning Manual (https://www.lainefamily.com/images/WeberTuningManual.pdf). From what I can tell, THE authority on Webers is Keith Franck at his groups.io group (https://vintagetechnologygarage.groups.io/g/sidedraft/topics). He has designed his own jets and emulsion tubes - that's the level of knowledge he has! I've been tempted to get his emulsion tubes but for now, it runs good enough and my interest is not squeezing the last hp out of the motor. Joining his group is a good way to get some help straightening out your carbs.
I included those two links earlier because you have to set the carbs up correctly to be able to get anywhere. The position of the butterflies to the transition holes is important as is the fuel level. Luckily, you found that video where D3SShooter explained the other things that are very important to have squared away before starting to look at your carbs!
Good luck!
-
Thanks again BDA,
Now that I'm here and have a semi-operational vehicle I'm not blindly buying stuff. I like when I can see a problem and then fix it. I did take yours and JB advice but wish I remembered what I purchased back then. After reading my post ,I need to find out. I'm really ,really glad I'm at this point.
I'm also thinking about just buying a china model off ebay. luckily I have other jobs to do before actually pulling that trigger.
Step by step....
Dakazman
-
Not idling?
Do you have Italian made Webers or Spanish?
What is the exact carb number 40DCO?xxx ?
-
Made in Italy ,
It’s pictured here JB . It’s been awhile since I explored it. You gave me the website to buy parts way back in 3/2021.
http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=2058.1380
Dakazman
Looks like Dcoe 8
-
I was tempted to get new Chinese Webers but thought better of it given spotty QC with some Chinese products and not knowing if they would behave the same way as a "real" Weber. On the other hand, Pierce Manifolds, which sells Webers, jets, accessories, etc. is selling FAJS DCOE copies. I don't know anything about them but the fact that Pierce Manifolds sells them lends a certain amount of credibility to them for me.
edit: on the other hand, Pierce Manifolds could be just trying to make a buck (not that they shouldn't try to do that). The folks at this Alfa forum had a dim view of FAJS carbs (https://www.alfabb.com/threads/anyone-know-these-carbs.537098/). In spite of Pierce Manifold's selling them, it seems the safer option would be to get new Spanish made Webers instead.
-
JB question.
Shoud I be able to obtain idle without a mechanical advance on distributor?
I just re-read it in my thread .
http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=2058.1380
Dakazman
-
Yes, it will idle with fixed timing. It won’t accelerate nor run at high speed very well with timing set for idle. I’m confused though. Why, and how, would you run with no mechanical advance?!?
Looking at your old notes, 60f6 idle jets are too large.
-
JB,
I was taking the easy route and just going to hook up the vacuum advance from distributor to a blocked off hole in the intake manifold. mechanical advance is still my goal, but need to buy the parts ( springs and weights). or go with the pertronics distributor. That was my thinking anyway but now I'm here and its still not decided. :headbanger:
Then, talking about dropping the ball, I never ordered the 115 tips or the proper jets for this engine. I just ordered the throttle bearings and the plate BDA mentioned and the fuel inlet fitting.
This is basically where I am and need some further directions on how to proceed. :help:
I did not do a compression check or vacuum check yet also, as stated in the videos. then also going back to what cam I put in. then I need to readjust the valve clearance and torque down the valve cover a bit more to stop this Exxon Valdeves oil leak.
I have the book on dells and now frantically trying to get time to read and watch videos.
Dakazman
-
The more you explain, the more confused I get.
Dellortos? I thought you had Webers?
You need a working distributor, full stop. It won't run right with a fixed mechanical advance.
It would be very helpful if you could explain exactly what your engine is (wedge/crossflow) and exactly what it has (carbs/exhaust/etc).
-
I have A Weber dcoe 8 40mm .
I was referring to the book that was suggested by someone to read . The manual for early type weber carbs shows the jets and a stock number but not the f designation or 115 size . That is why I didn’t buy the jets.
My 821-30 has a slightly modified cam, stock otherwise. I’ll research the cam cut I posted years ago.
I’ll just buy the fitting for the vacuum hose but since it comes off when setting timing it doesn’t matter to get a good idle.
I’m up to part 2 and 3: here
https://240260280.com/Tech/Carbs/Weber/docs/Weber/WeberTuning%20Manual%201985.pdf
I found the cam card here . See pic
Dakazman
-
That’s helpful as at times you have referred to multiple carbs and I was beginning to think you had a crossflow. Do a search as there are threads on jetting a single DCOE for a wedge engine.
I’m having some trouble believing that cam chart. 215 degrees of duration? That’s like a cam for a tractor or a lawnmower. I have a 280 degree cam in crossflow powered Seven for example. It’s a bit lumpy at idle. A stock Ford Kent 1600GT engine has a 272 degree cam.
-
On that single carb set-up, they usually run a 45DCOE. A 40DCOE might be a bit restrictive. Here's a thread on jetting:
http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=2919.msg28182#msg28182
-
You can see why I said your 60f6 idle jets were way too large.
-
Hey JB ,
I pulled that picture off , or I thought I did.
That build card must be for a different customer that was probably in the box they shipped it to me in .
It says small block Chevy , hydraulic lifters and maybe too many lobes or cylinders.
I do have a crossflow also but not in car, so your memory is fine. It has dual 45’s dcoes . Maybe I should just pull one off and install on this problem child. It’s new , from China.🥱🥴
At this point it may help.
I still have a lot of studying to do.
I’ll see what jets are in them.
Dave
-
I went and removed the Weber 40 dcoe and then explored a brand new 45 DCOE Weber KNOCK-OFF called Reedmoral, made by Lantech. I tried to get all the jet sizes so I have a better understanding of these designations and a baseline of what would be the next size, larger or smaller to buy.
See pic , I did not get far or much information and will probably have to get in touch 😂😂😂😂 with the seller on eBay for answers.
Trying to get answers while comparing info from the book pictured. With no identifying numbers I used a welding tip cleaner to at least get some measurement which was a 10 opening 68-70.
Ready to install it , can’t wait for this next attempted run. 🤞
Dakazman
PS getting ready to install a new clutch kit afterwards. Step by step , thanks RD.
-
I'm not familiar with the "Chinese" Webers. Italian DCOEs are happiest when you use an idle jet that results in 3/4T to 2T out on the mix screws. Spanish DCOEs are happier in the 4T to 6T range.
-
JB, yep, I agree and that's what all the videos say 3/4 to 3 turns max
Just finished up installing it this morning,
After setting this model I found it was 3 turns out of box. so I set for 1 1/2 turns. no start, 1 turn, no start. checked fuel to carb, check good. went to 2 turns and back up to 3... The engine started and ran beautifully, so I ran it at 2500 rpm for about 10 minutes, then brought it down to 800 idle.
So smooth.
Then the wife came out to smell all the oil burning ... she offered to do another video. :confused: so, I posted it just now to youtube. Its short because I ran out of gas :FUNNY: Other than not knowing what jets are in it seems to progress well.
https://youtube.com/shorts/LjpzbxN5fzY?si=pbPra-tIiHZqq2SR
rechecking the valves and going to tighten these rocker cover knurled nuts a bit more than finger tight.
Moving forward.
Dakazman
-
That's got to feel good!!! :beerchug: :pirate:
-
Oh , YES it does BDA !
It would feel better if I knew what jets are in it . I have a message out to seller to find out more information.
Now I’ll fine tune it a bit and put the firewall in after adding the ac lines. Also waiting on an oil pressure Smiths mechanical gauge .
Windscreen is probably next after clutch kit.
Dakazman
-
Most of the jets are easy to get to. The main jet is at the bottom of the emulsion tube, the idle jet is at the bottom of the idle jet holder - both the idle jet holder and emulsion tube are accessible after only taking the jet inspection cover off. The accelerator pump jet is a bit more difficult to get to IIRC. It's a little more involved to get to the aux venturi and the choke but I assume with only one carb, it wouldn't be a big deal to take the carb off and check to see what you've got.
I found this handy exploded diagram which finds the name of the part when you hover over it with your mouse. It's the latest Spanish type carb but except for the air bypass system for a fine balance between two throats of the same carb, they are the same (https://www.carb.parts/exploded_view/WEBER_45_DCOE_152).
-
If that is a Chinese carb I fear you may have issues getting consistently sized and correctly marked jets.
Genuine Weber may not fit either.
Please use a ColorTune or some other means to confirm that both sides match for mixture.
-
I use a ColorTune too, although they are looked down on by "real carb tuners." Gunson says that a blue flame is what you are shooting for but I've found that half yellow half blue works best for me. I got the idea to try that from a another guy who used it on his Elan (TC motor) who said that it had to show a rich mixture to work for him.
If you haven't used one before, it may be a bit confusing because you can get both blue and yellow flames at the same time you get some blue flames and some yellow flames. It seemed to work best for me when I tried to "average" the blue and yellow together and shoot for an equal amount of each overall.
Having said that, I am nobody's carb tuner. I can only say that I monkeyed with mine over a long time to get it where it is today which is not to say it is perfect. It does not pop or spit, when warm; it idles it is very smoothly; it generally behaves itself under all driving conditions except when stomping on the gas from a stop when it bogs down (this is pretty easy to drive around). So, it's not perfect but it was undrivable when I tried to have a consistent blue flame.
-
BDA , I did disassemble it and pulled the jets and e tube out . It’s in one of the pictures above.
It doesn’t say china anywhere on it but the seller text tells you something about the origin.
I just realized that for the first time in 35 years living in my house that all 7/9 2 daughters cars are all running.
I saw those tools on the videos and will probably pick them up . My old flow tube that I owned since the 70’s my have to much dust on it .
Richard , I’m still learning the graduations of them all . I saw sets for sale but if your jets aren’t labeled what do you buy. This one seems to do what the videos show and as JB said it could be a knockoff from the Spanish version. I do have another one on the crossflow engine that I’ll check for some more numbers.
JB posted the crossflow jets a few pages back that he uses. I could start there or leave it alone for awhile as long as this runs.
I have tons more to do.
Then I got my grandson a Christmas gift that I need to paint and make a garage for his collection.😂
Dakazman
-
There should be a stamp or a marking somewhere on the jet and e-tube to tell you what it is. In fact, the number for the e-tube in the last picture shows a number but I can't read it. The idle jet just pulls out of the holder (in your first jet picture). IIRC, you mentioned that you have a 40 DCOE 8. The picture here (https://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=2058.msg66662#msg66662) shows a genuine Italian Weber. Yours looks brand new, or likely NOS, while I have the same vintage in 45mm (45 DCOE 9 produced in the late '70s through early '80s at least). It appears to say "Weber" on the cover and I don't think even the Chinese would try to make such a blatant counterfeit.
The number stamped on the butterfly designates the angle the butterfly makes when fully closed. IIRC, there are two different flavors and the idea is to alter the relationship between when the butterfly opens and when it sweeps across the progression holes (under a brass screw cover behind the mixture screw). I wouldn't change your butterflies unless you had a really good reason to do so and I don't know of a reason. The progression holes help to smooth out the mixture between the idle circuit. IIRC, as the butterfly opens up, there is less vacuum in the idle circuit but not enough to draw sufficient fuel up the main circuit so the p-holes (as they are sometimes called) provide extra fuel during that transition. Different Webers have different numbers and orientations of p-holes. Some people have to add new ones and others might plug some. I'd leave them alone (but it might be useful to note how many you have) unless you have a good reason.
-
The 40 dcoe was rebuilt in March of 2019 , time flies , and I put that on a link to the correct page.
The vendor diagram is there also and all my notes. As JB stated the start jet is too big and he was correct. The engine would not idle, so for that REAL Weber I’ll have to get something smaller for that position. Then the next and so on . That’s why I just went with the reedmoral dcoe carb off eBay
https://www.ebay.com/itm/392698837272?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=dU95eLLlT-e&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=QOunqopVSxS&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=SMS
I’ll probably pick up another just to close up the holes on the crossflow on the engine stand.
I’ll play with that engine soon 😂 as it is almost ready to run on the stand I made years ago, but not completely finished with a start circuit. I also need a starter and wires , coil etc.
Dakazman
-
Found some answers to my questions.
Carb type- part number- then sizes in mm
Now I see why people drill their own. I’m on my journey to this secret society that have back parking lot trades in jets..😂
Dakazman
-
After rocker re-adjustment which all were still very close ( <.oo1) ran engine and was able to adjust the idle screw.
Don’t like this smoke , so I’ll pull the plugs and see what they look like . Hopefully not oil soaked🫣😢
Upload another video here:
https://youtu.be/PhW92TpzkOg?si=ahXB7oE2sOnneCIx
Never a dull moment!
Decided to install the windscreen next so it doesn’t get broken and is out of the El Camino bed.
PS: Could'nt stop thinking about oil smoke , so I pulled the two center plugs, :)) just black dry soot,... duh, to rich a mixture.
-
:beerchug:
There does seem to be a lot of oil smoke. I couldn't tell how much was coming from the tail pipe but there does seem to be a fair amount coming off the engine. Usually, this is not a big deal and comes from oily hand prints, previous spill or leak, other residue left on the exhaust or engine block, etc. A little bit coming out the tailpipe might be expected till the rings wear in.
-
Thanks BDA ,correct, not much coming out of tailpipe, I just needed some piece of mind, some yes, but near the center exhaust header wrap area, was most of it . I don't know what type finish is on the RD headers, Paint or powder coat I thought they were Powder. Then the muffler wrap might have sucked up some oil.
I moved onto cutting and forming the rubber seal for windscreen, been at one edge for over an hour now .
Dakazman
-
This trim is very tricky to cut inside and out and line up glass seat and final lock trim. I’m slowly managing to make my way around. I had the side pieces clamped to some L channel to keep straight for a month. Using some paint stick clippings as a wedge shows the alignment when glass in place .
The lower right corner still needs some trimming still yet
Adding pr1425b will secure and fill the bottom and edge cuts . Great stuff and sticks to everything.
Dakazman
-
Spent the day cutting my lawn and do oing my outdoor chores that I’ve been neglecting.🥱
So afterwards I just about finished all the rubber trim . Wow what a pain. I just need to trim out the top right just a tad more.
Window tomorrow 🤞
Talked to the carb seller and I asked several times for specifications and the answer I got was hilarious, see pic😂
Dakazman
-
That is part of the reason I am trying to avoid parts made there.....
-
Said in my best Chinese voice:
Why you hab wubber gasket, D'man san?
Thought you had Type 65?
-
GavinT
Lol,
That’s what I had on the car. I called RD and order one for an S2 type 65, with SN .
I saved the rubber for over 30 years.
Dakazman
-
GavinT,
So close ! Started at 3:30 at 500 pm I quit for the day
I have one seal left to do as I tried something different to get it to fit. After some pain killers I’ll try again tomorrow on to inner seal top seal.
Dakazman
-
That’s what I had on the car. I called RD and order one for an S2 type 65, with SN .
Well, there ya go.
I thought all 65's would have come with bonded in glass because the associated screen recess was dictated by the upper body mould.
But yes, fitting the rubber is a pain partly because the corners need to be cut to accommodate the multiple plains of the joints.
You'll win in the end.
-
You had me worried at first, still it’s going slower than the rear window and I haven’t put in the chrome plastic lock strips yet either . More fun tomorrow… maybe if I’m not to sore.
Dakazman
-
I just couldn’t sleep thinking about all the smoke during the last run so I rechecked the head torque , checked the water level, filled my lawnmower gas tank and cranked her up .
Much better.
https://youtu.be/r7VFhpzAcVg?feature=shared
Now to bleed the coolant lines . Get that window in , that’s why it’s outside, loosen up these seals.
I also can reinstall one firewall panel. Waiting on oil pressure line and gauge.
A slight wobble is showing on the cam pulley, any ideas how to adjust it , do you loosen it up then run and retighten?
Dakazman
-
Yep, it's all burned off now...
-
:)
Just noticed the flares ...what size tires are running?
-
It was my first engine completely assembled by me , parts from all over the world.
Thanks to many members here I “ Got Her Done” . Usually It’s “Get Her Done” . I still have a lot to do on it and getting used to the sound of the solid lifters. Not exactly the sound of roller lifters.
Dakazman
-
:)
Just noticed the flares ...what size tires are running?
I have 185 60 13 up front on 6” panasports and 205 60 13 in the rear on 7 in panasports
Dakazman
-
First engine... Well done!!! :beerchug: :BEER3:
-
A slight wobble is showing on the cam pulley, any ideas how to adjust it , do you loosen it up then run and retighten?
Yes, it does seem a bit wobbly but the camera moves too much to be 100% sure on that.
Are the 'outer' bolts all tight - maybe too tight or not enough shims are in place?
-
GavinT,
This belt and pulley is a learning experience for me, another first. Going to add another shim ring to loosen new belt . Reading the car for a clutch/ pressure plate job. Maybe just an inspection of what’s going on with it not releasing. Maybe the 35 year old pressure plate is shot🥱😂
Dakazman
-
Down to removing the gearbox assembly. Do I have to remove cross brace on top or can I lift /pull back and drop out bottom?
Dakazman
-
Either way works.
I don't have an engine crane though can usually borrow one . . . which then entails a transport hassle. So I just drop it onto a dolly and take it out via the wheel well if the trailing arm isn't there. Alternatively, you'll find the bell housing is the tallest part and it'll go out the back on a plywood sled, too.
This should mean you don't need to jack the car up much at all and involves less time & disassembly overall. Generally, I'm happier keeping heavy items close to the ground when working on my own.
-
In my younger days I’d just lift it out but yesterday I pulled a shoulder muscle in my back. I’m used to lifting my m21 transmission in my vette by hand .
After a few Motrin I’ll drop it out without jacks.
Dakazman
-
Yeah, the folly of youth.
Back in the day, I lifted an engine (4-cyl iron block) on to the bench and hurt my back. Lifted another one on a later occasion and hurt it again.
I'm a slow learner but don't do that sort of thing anymore. Just look at the football players who run into knee problems as they get older.
-
Motrin and a few beers and I’m back at it, manhandled the gearbox assembly out.
The old pressure plate was stuck in the release position. That’s why I couldn’t feel the movement of the pressure plate.
Installed the new RD Kit disc and pressure plate. Removed the bearing rod and pressed off the old bearing . Hopefully my machinist can put a rush on it . I wish I could Chuck it up myself and cut it down appropriately 3mm .
I’m glad I got some time off from installing this interference fit windscreen. My shoulders can’t take it.
Dakazman
-
Release bearing flange back from the machinist. Cutting it down was easygoing, he said it was steel but cut like cast . For all you machinist’s out there. It was not hardened steel.
So no back to getting her put back together.
Dakazman
-
Gearbox Ready to go back in. Thanks RD for the clutch kit.
I’m making changes to make it easier to change things out and lighten things up. Oil pressure gauge came in along with the nylon tubing .. it was a package deal.
Last 10 inches of the windscreen to go but I am so sore from pushing and pulling I’ll put it off a few days. Good thing I just have to cut the lawn this weekend.😅
Dakazman
-
Sometimes the task doesn’t go as planned. While I was putting in the windscreen it cracked after 4 days of taking small steps forward going around the glass with soap solution and plastic tools, vacuum pads … With the last 2-3” to go on the lower corner I held the glass with my thumb while pulling the seal lip inwards…snap. Why the lower corner? Going by the manual the roof lip was way to tight to put the glass lip in . So I started over with seal on the flange all around I worked the glass from center into the right side of cars seal, while sliding the entire top in . Slowly with the vacuum pads maneuvering the glass into the position marked on the initial setting without seal .
So Why ? after reexamining , The short story the glass stands outward from that lip without seal. Facia panel was not in place so I had plenty of flex.
I heard some people talking about trimming the glass , that scares me. But with a broken piece in hand I’ll test that out.
So with time on my hands I’ll get back to the clutch job and others.
Keep moving forward.
Dakazman
-
That stinks DMan!!!
-
Bummer!! :headbanger: Do you have a spare?
-
Bummer!! :headbanger: Do you have a spare?
No spare 🥴 I’ll be making some phone calls soon. Looking into 5.5 mm (1/4”) acrylic panels.
I can use the cracked glass as a template. Just a thought.
Dakazman
-
Try www.racingshields.com they had a Europa listing before
-
Turbo , nothing on their website however I’ll give them a call .
Thanks
Dakazman
-
DMan,
Any luck?
Here is one a guy made for a Europa S2 $2000 Challenge car .... https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/the-grm-free-lotus-europa-2gr-v6-swap-2000-challenge-car/186375/page22/ (Purists don't look....)
-
DMan
I reached out to them, they will make them.
PM me your number and I will send you the text conversation I had with them…..
-
I would think a plexiglass windshield would get scratched pretty easily and often. I think that (some?) states have relaxed their rules for film on the windshield and you might be able to find a film that blocks UV and is scratch resistant. That would be cooler and cheaper and maybe easier...
-
These are coated. It says you can use wipers when necessary but they shed water better than glass and it says 250 times stronger than glass and half the weight…I may get one ….
-
Turbo,
I whet down to a local store that carried acrylic sheets. I'm not impressed with the flexibly I felt. maybe with the bends and curves it will stiffen up a bit. I just can't imagine wipers going at 70 mph and the windscreen flexing.
They were out of 5.5 mm so I will go back and do a feel test on a good 1/4-inch sheet. It looked like 3/16"'for acrylic. $106 for a piece that can be formed. At 600$ plus shipping it seems that the glass would be a better choice. I'm still open for more discussion about this subject.
the yellowing and crazing is another problem as is the air bubbles in the plastic.
Dakazman
-
The ones are at racingsheilds are optically clear polycarbonate so I don’t think there are bubbles etc.,
They also make windshields for farm and construction equipment that are in the sun their whole lives so I wouldn’t think UV is an issue :confused:
-
My experience with clear acrylic sheet tells me that it can be brittle. We bought some for a treehouse for the kids, and managed to crack it. Polycarbonate, on the other hand, is nearly bombproof.
-
Thanks guys,
Been a little busy on other items. I just need a bit more information and do some more research.
I started a a thread on clutch mod for S2 336 gearbox.
Dakazman
-
Thanks turbo for all your help, but I decided to go with the tried and true glass screen.
Dakazman
-
No problem!
-
Back to my home thread, and reporting on my A/C system . The final hoses and fittings came in today so whenever I get to swedging the bead lock fittings and run the hoses. My route is thru the front boot into wheel well , down into the door sill area and to to other components.
Dakazman
-
My fittings and hoses arrived so I started the run . After cutting a pathway to to fender well I made a plate for protecting the glass from the fatigue of the hoses and protecting the hoses from chafing.
The 14 foot run of the hoses needed to be run together so I came up with using a bicycle tire tube
To hold them in the run. Today I finished adding some fiberglass between the inner fender well and the front storage bay. Now to do the run.
Dakazman
-
That will feel really cool next summer when you’re driving down the road. You are going to have it driving by next summer, right?
-
I’m hooking up these lines and doing a leak check, then putting the interior back together.
The windscreen should be in soon from RD but then the wait on delivery down here.
I want to make a February 4 car show. This week is my downfall, anniversary, my wife’s and my bDays, thanksgiving. Then get Christmas up and running.
Bleeding Brakes, , bleed radiator, then polishing it up again. 😂 then a small problem with my ac control of the cabin fan. I just get hi and low, but I’m working on it but it’s easier with dash out.
Then I have to build a picture frame, and rebuild a window, polish out the hood of the elky and register and license it, along with registration on the lotus .
So 3 of my cars will get antique plates since they go by my birthday for renewal. That should also cut my insurance costs a little.
D’man
-
Sounds like a full schedule! Stay focused! :)
-
I’m not sure I’ll be able to keep up with the schedule if I retire. Dakazman, you’re setting a blistering pace! >:D I look forward to seeing that car on the road.
-
A little progress today running the AC lines in. Some items needed to come out to route the remaining 2 shorter lines. So I’ll have plenty of material to finish.
Found a little item on the accelerator cable to carb fitting . I’ll need to research its name.
Then I had some sticker shock when I went to my paint shop and picked up some stuff. $600. For a small box with 8 items, 2 were rolls of tape . Yikes 2 quarts of paint and activator/ reducer and a box of 3000 sandpaper.
Dakazman
-
There is always one thing that just needs, one more thing. I’m getting an education on making my own lines and making some jigs to hold them while pressing in place. While waiting I’ll complete the low pressure switch and fan control for the condenser.
Then down to the last two pieces of the firewall. I’m just happy the compressor fits behind a slightly canted firewall.
Facia going in tomorrow along with dash pad, steering column etc.
Dakazman
-
Did you buy the ac hose fitting crimper?
-
Did you buy the ac hose fitting crimper?
Yes, it paid for itself all ready. The hoses are sold on eBay are by far the best price even with the shipping. I also bought just the ferules so I can replace the components at any time.
D’man
-
Yea. Expensive, but you need it. I took mine to an auto ac place to crimp the hoses. It worked out ok, but it would have been nice to have one.
-
It was but a fellow member gave me a gift card for lending a tool, then Amazon had a sale, Lucky me, so it was half price , my end 75$ . Crimps hoses down to 5/16 and up to 7/8”.
I went to an ac place here and the hoses alone were over the eBay price by $100$ each . Next time I’m in the salvage yard the hoses were laying all over , cutting the ends off saves 10-20 each.
I’m still on track with the front window coming in soon at RD . Trying to make that February car show at the muscle car museum. Are you still thinking about going?
Dakazman
-
Yes. I will be taking the Tiger.
-
I’ll put you in the top 3 with her !
hmmm 🤔 what do you call a female Tiger? Have you a pet name yet? Or is it, The Tiger !
Dave
-
Just "the tiger"
-
hmmm 🤔 what do you call a female Tiger?
A tigress
-
Well she is surely that guys. 🤩
I’m a bit under the weather but managed to get the facia back in place and will anchor the crashpad in using only a bolt on each side near the air vents. Column next.
Then hiding the battery with a continuing the stainless sheet.
Dakazman
-
Keep it up, D’man! She’s going to be pretty! :beerchug:
-
You really are doing a heck of a job. Thanks for keeping us posted.
-
Thanks to all of you who told me to focus, I appreciate it!
So I made a short list to keep me on the straight and narrow. Maybe 🥱😂
I went a little crazy today and keep on going, checking fit and routing, fasteners needed and appearance along with functionality. Cover over ac hoses. Then just stuff I missed. Battery tie-down and tray.
Dakazman
-
I would probably get writers cramp if I made a list of things left to do …. :o
-
Looking good. It's coming along nicely.
-
Thank Trevor,
Staying on track I completed the accelerator cable, I just removed the piece that was on the cable and installed that way.
Then some arts and crafts using some cardboard made a mock-up of the cover in front bonnet to cover the A/C lines. While that project was drying I made a battery tray and will strap down the battery. I probably could buy one faster but will change out the battery once the lithium batteries get a little cheaper.
Dakazman
-
Crossing a few more things off my list today. Battery tray, cover in bonnet, A/C lines and leak check. If leak check is good then I’ll be green lighted to finish the installation of my firewall. Then I can add my vapor barrier and carpeting.
Dakazman
-
Good day for just getting one more thing done even if I have to remove it tomorrow.
Small leak in ac system but working around the lines. Good thing for lists , I ordered more carpeting for the firewall , and it came in all ready. Cut an engine compartment panel to fit with the ac lines , installed battery and routed wires.
Put in a seat and just relaxed and said , Wow. She’s a tight fit when I shut the door, but that little elbow room was outstanding.
Dakazman
-
Still unsuccessful with a leak down check on the AC. I thought I found it but no joy. Once I get a good test I'll close up the firewall. I need to get back into the receiver /dryer. I also would like to know why the HP side service port is on the high pressure liquid line?
I did manage to drill the holes to mount the drivers seat. sitting in the seat for 20 minutes or so I found myself looking at the steering column . I need to bring it out so i can safely use the clutch and brake with the steering wheel attached. Damn , I just tightened those nuts.
Vacuum line installed on intake manifold. It will do for now.
Dakazman
-
I would probably get writers cramp if I made a list of things left to do …. :o
The list never ends. Things get crossed off the top, and new stuff is added at the bottom. I have a notion that was part of the plan.
-
You’re so right Bryan.
Added a few more to the bottom, 😂 better to have a checklist than break down on the road.
I just hate when one thing holds up several other items.
It’s all okay because I’m waiting for the windscreen that RD explained in their last newsletter.
It also brings new path to finish off the headliner trim. The old liner tucked into the window seal.
The answer was asked before so I’ll just re-read some old threads.
Dakazman
-
More surprises !
The list is getting checked off but added a few curves that were in the pipeline but finished quickly.
My AC has a small leak and I’ve been through it twice now need to check new out of box parts , evaporator and condenser. Working other items but slowing up the firewall install.
Trying to install the roll pins in the cross shafts with it up on Jack stands seems impossible.
Going to try again when on ground. Any tips???
The surprise was a blown radiator bypass hose in my tiberon and the rear brake master on my Honda Sabre bike.
Then finishing up installing a Pella awning window pane back in its frame after replacing the glass and the entire lower wood casing.
Dakazman
-
I used a ratcheting cargo strap to make sure they were all the way inboard
-
Thanks turbo I’ll give that a try, then I’ll pull it apart again to add the shims.
Dakazman
-
The hard part is getting the o-ring to into place. Use a substantial mallet/hammer and a length of pipe.
-
I went into the S2 manual to find the re-installation of the roll pins, other than grease the shafts , Nothing on shims or adding a seal . probably because the seal is all ready in the gearbox. so this job is on hold.
I think I won a small victory , so far the A/C is holding vacuum pressure. Long story but now I don't trust my gauges.
Testing them now. The cars system held 60 psi pressure all night, but drops 8psi in 1 hour in vacuum.
Brakes, bleeding them down but still no firm pedal. no puddles on floor. :confused:
Tomorrow is another day. These feting details are killing me.
Dakazman
-
Santa came early.
A/C leak check finally good after finding the NEW ,"go to" Schrader valve leak on the service fittings. there was a o-ring in place but since this is all aftermarket was to small for the fitting it had to go on. so that pushed forward alot of items that could go back together.
Then I managed to bleed the brakes with the one man bottle method. Working perfectly now but who really needs brakes , see pic.
JB and Turbo,
I checked the IPC and it shows the dowels are for an S2. That did not help me get them in. :headbanger: NO WONDER IT TOOK LOTUS SO LONG TO BUILD A CAR.
Forget about going in from on top. the gearbox shape does not allow it.
From bottom, haven't tried your method yet Turbo. The machine screws I have in place may jus stay in... :-X
With a few more screws and some trimming I'll have the firewall panels in place ,then a little liner just taped in place . then the rug.
Dakazman
-
I had time to do a few other things today whilst saying I was just straightening up.
Firewall panels are in and now for the fiberglass liner that I’ll tape the rug onto using double sided tape , then add the courtesy light.
I keep adding to the list full knowing I’ll be going over some later in the future.
Dakazman
-
Firewall, Yes, a real one!
After installing the panels which are completely fire retardant, I layered a liner of fire retardant fiberglass over them. adding another layer of 1" foam on which the rug and light assembly will be attached. Going as planned so far.
Just happy to be getting this light assembly in the car after spending 135$ re-chroming it years ago. now I can throw out the original panel after I remove it's light assembly.
Dakazman
-
Firewall coming together, second layer of fiberglass liner installed and a 1” foam core cut and fitted. Light assembly installed, ready for the carpeting. I probably could have thrown out the original 30 year ago. I took down the dimensions and into the trash it went.
This will do for now, I really wanted to build an S1 bulkhead fitted to the seats … someday.
Dakazman
-
Some of these “simple” jobs take forever and I’m still not done . The rear window surround and tucking in my headliner still needs to be done. Hopefully I can do it with the seats in since I found it easier to roll out from under the facia . I all most had to call the wife once😂.
Courtesy light installed, check , but now I have to find a bag of door switches.
Dakazman
-
And your interior light works!!
-
Yes it works.
That’s another thing with the schematics the PW must go to the PW in order to have off-switched-on . Here is a switch that has no switch, if you zoom in. You can see the PW needs to go to the PB wire. I just took a marker and put two stripes on it so that it will be connected properly.
Dakazman
-
Then I got two seats in , still locating holes but glad to be all most finished.
Then a little problem with colors in the indicators. To satin or to gloss?
Dakazman
-
Taking a few hours to uncover my JPS version. It still needs work but it should come out for a 10 footer.
-
That’s going to look very cool. I look forward to seeing it fully excavated and given the Dakazman polish.
But thinking of it on the car behind it, the engine lid is going to look incomplete without its own symbol. >:D Any thoughts on what could be appropriate there? CABC perhaps?
-
Thanks Kendo, This is just a wall hanger even though it looks cool. It’s also my test piece for synthetic veil.
The all Black is finally hold its finish after a series of clear coating 4 times .
Maybe I’ll save it for a real JPS 😁
Dakazman
-
Finished cutting in and removing the vinyl. Then I trimmed the higher black and clear layers to get a fine edge to cut to.
Painted the irredecent gold again and will sand off to the clear. Then I’ll reclear the entire again until the entire panel is flat, then polish it up😁
Dakazman
-
That's a lot of work! Looks good though!
-
BDA,
Yes it is, but I’m honing my skills and patience. Sanded the high layer and cleared again. Now I’ll go back and add some black in the valley to fine tune the edges. The clear again🤔🥱 I’m happy with the results so far but probably will not use it.
Dakazman
-
8)
-
Just reporting in.
Finishing the interior to my liking is proving difficult but not impossible. Taking things apart and putting it back together several times to get the fit and look proper.
Fitting the console and hiding (routing) wires and fabrication of a rear window surround is pretty much all that’s left. Still it’s time consuming.
Then there is my horn button…. And another list of fidgety items.
I’m all most ready to take it for a test drive up and down driveway but still a little nervous.
Dakazman
-
YES,
Windscreen came in 😁
Now for a for a definite delivery date.
Thanks George and all of RD.
Dakazman
-
A little update here windscreen on its way a should be here in 1-5 days. So I’m trying to finish up some lingering jobs. I’m still not sure if I can get the windscreen in and car licensed and insured by feb 4 th.
Crash pad and a cover tackled today then some more finessing the interior trim. The pad needed a central attach point along with its two side mounts. So I came up with an aluminum plate that I’ll attach something to later on . The pad can be removed and installed with the windscreen in place later down the road.
Holding off filling the gas tank and all that entails, all though I do know it doesn’t leak and sender should work. I want to go for a short ride to test shifter… stay tuned.
Dakazman
-
Almost there! I am envious!
-
Turbo,
Don’t be. You have a TURBO!
Going back a reading my own thread I can’t believe how long it has been. I could have cut corners and built it completely stock and purchased all the needed parts but what’s the fun in that.
I’m just glad when I just help others in their projects. You have inspired me with your mod, keep going.
Dakazman
-
Well D’man, you’ve been working on it four years less than I have on mine. Good for you, and I look forward to the first drive video. But now I’m depressed :(
Also, very nice work all around.
-
Congratulations on your progress, D’man! :beerchug:
Keep at Kendo. One day you’ll go out to the garage and you’ll get in your baby and drive it around the block. That will be just the start of a new phase, but probably one with a lot more smiles! :)
-
Thanks Kendo and Bda , Kendo we probably all members here understand, Life gets in the way of any project. That out of town trip, that sick kid, birthday’s graduations weddings , Newer cars🤔
Here is a laugh to get you thinking, Wow look how easy it is now!🤔
Remember when you waited for hemmings monthly came in the mailbox along with Sports car world ??? You scrambled to get your needed parts before the next guy .
So Kendo I dragged this car home back in 1989 , Does that count in the time? I walked past the lotus daily going to work and touched it just to wipe the dust off and make room for parts I found for sale. Remember Budgeting…
So don’t give up, do it for you. Keep your brain healthy and active and body limber.
Dakazman
-
In the sixth picture above is something that ,"just fell out". :headbanger: I got it back in and secured the crashpad.
Then went on to spray the adhesive for the rug and console...
-
I found it was just one tab on the bottom of the gauge that moved when manipulating the crashpad in. All better now.
WINDSCREEN is in my garage! Thank RD opening box soon .
Bonnet on! Wiring getting detangled and stowed properly. Still playing with some paint issues but moving along.
Dakazman
-
Unboxing !
Wow , I dug tons of padding out of the double boxed items. Glass is intact .
Glass looks perfect. Chrome Trim needs more unpacking tomorrow. I’m extremely excited, that I could make a show on Feb 4th. Registration and insured to go after a picture of installed window.
Dakazman
-
Great news, D'man!!! Things are really coming together! :pirate: :beerchug:
-
Would really be interested in seeing your chrome trim!
-
Would really be interested in seeing your chrome trim!
Kram,
The corner pieces are Aluminum. The top & sides 4each pieces are plastic high polished chrome approximately 1 in wide.
The windscreen is perfect no defects in the glass which my original did have and the clarity is truly clear.
Now to cut the trim to apply to the glass edge before installing on car.
first made my support blocks and tape car up to set markings and to check curves.
Then I need to talk to a tinting shop about adding a modern blackout around edges .
Dakazman
-
I went to a tint shop to have my windshield tinted. I was hoping to get the entire windshield tinted to reduce heat and the top tinted darker for glare when the sun is low (I don’t have visors because I’m already looking out of the top 4 or 5 inches of the windshield and flipping the visor down would pretty much mean I couldn’t see at all). They didn’t want to do the overall tint because of the tight access at the bottom. They could trim it so the bottom wouldn’t be covered which would have been alright with me but because of all the custom cutting, etc. it was going to be more than I wanted to spend. I think I’ll end up getting just the tint at the top.
-
Dakazman, what did you make your support blocks out of?
And everyone, has anyone worked out now to paint that dotted frit around the edges? I've seen some just paint a solid edge, but getting that dotted effect could be cool.
-
Kendo,
I’m using the rubber seal material cross section , trimmed down of course to just the base . I have plenty of it 🥱😂. You can use a plastic block as long as you. A Lego would work cut down a little in height.
BDA , I may just go to Lowe’s or Walmart and get window tinting film.
Dakazman
-
I recently used these guys to get a tint strip for the top of my truck's windshield. I doubt they'd have the pattern for an Europa, but the material looks good. And their install kit was useful.
https://www.precutautotint.com/ (https://www.precutautotint.com/)
-
Thanks Kendo,
At least now I have a price point to shoot for. our windscreens need at least 26" X 55" to make the entire piece.
so the 40" can do the entire window and you just have to cut out the center. At least that is the plan and I'll run it by the tinting shop. Those guys are very talented and can add practically any graphic. I just want to hide some sins easily and from what I see from a front view, I'll try to hide the defroster vents. I also see I have to shorten the vent covers and bring the castellated nuts lower.
BDA, I see from the outside that the field of view would be approximately 16 inches from the outside view. I have sun visors that are ready to install, but from 15 ' away it brings the field down to 10'???? gotta sit iside and have a picture taken. I'll install the visors and we'll see .
I guess its time to make these determinations, at least my crash pad only needs allen screws to loosen pad.
Dakazman
-
Looks more and more like a car!!! :beerchug:
-
BDA ,
It sure is. I even got in it and just looked slowly around looking for items to add to the to-do list.
Amazingly I just sat there in the seat and smiled.
Started trimming the windscreen determining the best method of cutting in the corners. I started with the top piece since it had enough length to practice cut and joining the trim to the corners.
At first I just made a square cut. Then decided on a slit method it gave it a smoother aesthetic look . The bottom trim doesn’t have much to waste after one side is fitted. The two side pieces have a good amount to make some adjustments.
Went shopping today and also purchased the darkest tint film I could all for $18 . Delivery of the sealant and primer won’t be here for 3 days, Amazon special
-
It appears that the chrome trim hooks around the edge of the windscreen, like the original trim? Is that why you are installing the trim prior to windscreen install ? I made my trim out of steam bent wood , metal and covered it with chrome wrap. Took weeks to do! I planned to surface mount it with urethane adhesive after the screen is in, but if the correct trim is now available might need to rethink my install .
-
Kram, yes it does attach under the windscreen edges . As far a I see possible, you cannot attach trim after laying it down.
In this manner you should not see any mismatches in the aperture , which I seem to have on the left lower edge.
I cut trim with a rotary grinder with a cutting wheel , works well but you really have to control it from running away or on the chrome area. At $325 you don’t want to slip up.
I like the slice method on the corners that I tried it makes it uniform especially on the lower corners. The 3 pic is a final as the 4 pic still needs to push down or sliced a little more .
There I no way you can attach the corners without notching them .
I love the look of this trim over the seal type .
Dakazman
-
Trimming complete 😁 now to polish up the aluminum corners.
But first to tint the front window, learning what it is I’m gonna try to duplicate is called the matrix border.
-
Anyone have a ballpark measurement of the rear view mirror location , centered for sure but how low? To top of mirror?
Dakazman
-
So first, I have the original TCS mirror bracket which I would guess is probably similar to what you are using. The "button" that is glued to the windshield is just shy or 2" from the top of the windshield. I can't be very exact because the trim covers the edge of the windshield so it's a guess. Now in case you're using something different to give you some perspective about where the mirror might be in relation to the windshield, the arm of the mirror bracket is about 2 2/2" long measured from the center of the button to where it turns and mounts the mirror. The mirror is about 2" high.
Hopefully that helps...
-
That’s perfect 👍👍
-
Sorry BDA , I went digging through my interior box and found the mirror unfortunately it gets secured to the roof. 🥱. It may not be original but it’s in good shape so I just may glass in a block to mount it . It may also be safer not to attach to glass .
Film cut to a rough opening will play more tomorrow. I also managed to paint the cover for the ac lines under the bonnet.
Anyone recognize this knob, first come first served. Radio maybe?
Dakazman
-
DMAN, See your trim is rounded, not tri-facet like the original. Did you get from RD?
-
Yes I did buy from RD .
You formed wood and had it chrome plated with plastic? Now I get it , wow You need to post pics.
I haven’t really looked at the trim details just the width of the chrome.
Dakazman
-
I know that r.d. used to sell trim that looked very similar (including the tri-facet) to the original windshield trim which was discontinued long ago but it was a little bit narrower than the original. So r.d. had new corners made up to match the new trim. Not it appears that that narrower trim is NLA. I don't know if r.d. had to have new corners made to match the new trim but I can see how this can end up with an endless (ok, not endless but continuous) stream of corners to match whatever trim is available at the time.
FYI: I just looked over at SJ Sportscars and they seem to have the same style trim.
-
From a post I did in 2021.
"Thought I would share the windshield trim I made. I was not happy with the trim currently available, the shape just doesn’t match the corner pieces. Anyway here is what I did;
Used 3/16” cedar plywood formed by clamping to the windshield and body to get the correct shape, top and bottom pieces. This took weeks by wetting, bending and the letting the wood dry and starting over. The plywood pieces were left wide, about 12”, which made the bending easier as there are compound curves involved. The bottom piece was particularly hard to bend and get to conform. The sides pieces where easy, basically straight but they do have a slight inside/outside twist to them. Once the plywood was formed, it was cut into strips so it could be slipped/ inserted into the corner pieces. To get the triangular shape to match the corners, I epoxied sheet metal strips .040 thick to the cedar, then used a flexible body filler to create the bevel. Sanded and epoxy primed the pieces. I have yet to cover the pieces with a chrome body wrap but a practice piece worked out very well. After the windshield is installed I will epoxy the pieces to the windshield with a urethane adheasive.
This was a huge amount of work to say the least. Just my luck it will all blow off at speed!"
Update 2024: Pieces are now complete with chrome wrap. What a nightmare. Plan to use butyl, windscreen to boby and then urethane adhere the trim to the windscreen.
One question: Were the original corner pieces polished or a brushed finish?
-
I have a set of original Lotus replacement parts I got in 1990 when they were still available. They are shiny polished.
-
Kram, 👏👏👏 Now that is attention to detail. 🫶 you’re a true craftsman.
Thank you for posting those here !
As for your polished or brushed, both are excellent choices over painting them.
I’ll be polishing the corners due to the polished plastic lengths.
Dakazman
-
Moving on to test my hand at tinting. Here is my rough cut layout pieces , now to transfer to inside surface.
After about 3 hours this is the best I could do. Please don’t hold back your comments.
Dakazman
-
That's pretty amazing work Kram! Very well done! That will look great when it's done. :beerchug:
-
Tint applied, some minor tweaks will need to be made. It should hide a bunch of things.
Dakazman
-
Started polisyup the corners and found the to be anodized. So it took a little longer with heavier grit paper to sand off . I even went with some ultra fine files to break into the hardness.
To bad TD doesn’t sell part nbr 054 B 6135 non anodized but then again at least the inside is protected. Another 1/2 hour and I’ll have it in mirror quality. Now for the other 3…🥱
Dakazman
-
Dman, you could try oven cleaner to remove the anodizing. I have had mixed results but it usually does break down the anodized top layer making the remainder easier to sand.
-
I’m my wife’s oven cleaner 🥱
I’ll see if I have any. Thanks. Learning new things daily.
D’man.
-
A few little adjustments on the cuts of the tinting. Which bought me to rethinking the crashpad attachment. I made up this alignment slot and tab brackets. So now it will just be attached by the two side bolts. It sides in over the steering column and falls right into place with the windscreen in .
It will also allow me to put off making the louvers on the aluminum demister vents.
On another subject, my Amazon order has been delayed until February 6 on the window sealant and primer.🤷♂️.
Dakazman
-
I like the slip on, take off design. I am doing something similar. Once the pad is installed I will be able to remove the vents surrounds, then the pad. The front of dash pad slides under a thin sheet metal runner riveted to the body, now held on by Clecos in the picture. The windshield will cover the runner. The vent surround then slides in and wedges the pad down and also holds the front of the surround down. Those are false screws nearest the windshield. With a short screwdriver I can unscrew the front of the vent surround, pull it out and then work the pad out.
-
Good ideas.
The this runner hides and gives the pad a finished look. I found it tedious to locate my rivnuts th hold in place, not impossible just time consuming. My demister vents are attached to the pad and come out along with my surfboard of a pad . Nothing is written in stone as of now except to make it Easy in easy out. Love the leather cover, another task in the future but since my surfboard is fiberglass I can mold things into it .
The facia panel could be easier to pull out for maintenance. I found the lower steering column nuts a PIA . I’m not going to change anything right now but next one. tray mounted facia sections a must. May a hinge at bottom to fold down???
I believe the S1 has that advantage . Just dreaming, staying focused
Dakazman
-
Window tinting cut to look a little straighter. I made a modification to a wood scribe that made the job easier and safer.
Then went on to finish the cover for the AC lines under boot.
Afterwards I finished removing the annealing from the trim corners . Now to try the butyl rubber underneath the flange to test the hold while lowering the window into the adhesive.
The a start to completing the mounting of the fuse box and relay box. Busman suggested a plastic base for their product. I’m still debating on dropping in their panel.
Then this PIA horn cap grabbing the 3 prongs. Just something that just won’t cooperate.
Dakazman
-
All the planets lined up today.
My windscreen is in.
With the help of my beautiful assistant, wifey, I managed to secure in place the windscreen .
Dealing with the trim was tricky but with the help of the butyl rubber it was pretty easy. I used it sparingly on the trim after using the 3m 08682 primer applied with a dauber, which I cut into a V shape.
It was a mess , Thanks Pfreen for tipping me off of the mineral spirits.
Dakazman
-
Did you heat the trim to shape it to the curves, or was it flexible enough to hold in place with the butyl?
-
I had the trim pieces sitting in the sun before adding them to the windscreen . They were very flexible in doing so. You can do this step a day before so not to add stress. One tube 10.5 oz The as more than enough.
I made one mistake that wasn’t a part of the installation, I bent the vin number backwards after the window was in, today I tried to flip it back in view, no luck . I’ll manipulate it later .
Dakazman
-
More progress!
-
Trim looks great! I think the effort to get the original chrome back on is worth it.
-
Thanks guys,
At this point as many items that I complete off my list , I add others . 🥱
Finding the wiper arms , and did I buy those blades… I’ll add gas to my tank this week . Small road test after I get these dang roll pins in the halfshafts.
Seat belts cleaned up and now need dye and a nickel finish.
Dakazman
-
Took the car out of garage and gave it a little washing. Windscreen did okay but the doors and side windows leaked all over the place . I put another thing on my list, door seals and clock window motor. Bonnet section did great even without any seals.
Dakazman
-
Congratulations !!
Don’t expect to get it to be leak free. When mine was “new” the doors leaked a little bit.
Good luck!
-
Looks great D’Man!
-
Does this year use the silver rocker covers? Are you going to gold stripe? Your paint looks fantastic! What products do you use to cut and buff?
-
Thanks Guys.😁
Turbo , your sign off makes more sense now.. the more I do the more has to get done.
Kram, I think I posted my finishing method on my” painting again “ thread. With a post of a you tube video by McGuires but I pull a few things out of my cabinet to show you.
Dakazman
-
As they say, two step forward, one step back. I found my wipers and was ready to install but the blades were marginal but then ,…. Oh doodies, how the hell did I do this. The wiper gearbox, or whatever they call them, are installed backwards. Facing backwards instead of forwards.
Bummed out I started to see how far this sets me back. I started with the left side and found it easy to flip the direction. The right side is another story. Pulled motor off mount but still couldn’t rotate the gearbox. I have to remove the facia anyway to straighten out a few gauges that seemed to have rotated.
So while getting in and out I mounted the mirror and sun visors. Now to finish off the headliner and A pillars. Rear window surround is coming along , pics soon.
Dakazman
-
Bummer, D'man!!! That can't feel good! I hope it's not that difficult to straighten out.
-
All fixed.🥱
Can’t say it was easy breezy but I had other things I just didn’t like and will tear into a few more things. One thing that really needs a change is the steering column attachment. I may cut out a section and add in some hylocs so it can be dropped easier.
It’s all about ease of maintenance and the removal of the crash pad is done, I can in the future adjust the demisters or add in items.
Dakazman
-
Excellent!!! :beerchug:
-
Moving the wheel boxes was the easy part. Once turned over 180 degrees facing forward I found my electric heater didn’t fit. Plan c is underway and so far fits perfectly. Then I will rebuild the unit totally with new metal. Remove it and the a few other parts I fabricated. Hopefully this will be the last time digging in this deep.
Straightened my gauges out and fixed the flying horn button clip. Then I found a brake fluid leak in the rt rear area . Which reminded me to pull the pedal assembly out again and mount the stop to the clutch pedal.
Dakazman
-
Came up with this re-design of the heater/ defroster and my ac duct work. Heater just needs to weld it up then wired. This will give me more room behind gauges.
The ac duct was also changed to give a better directed flow to console. The access of the control switches will be move to the lower surface of the evaporator so that it will be easier to access while driving.
Dakazman
-
After taking 2 hours to get the vent cover back on and repositioning the control switches and wiring I took a break from inside car. In all honesty it is very tight working space, but now I understand the rest of the group.
I completed the reconfigured heater section and mounted the fan, now to wire up and test before installing under dash.
Dakazman
-
I can hardly wait to start working on my dash wiring…. :o
-
I can hardly wait to start working on my dash wiring…. :o
It's not that bad, Turbo. Unless you're starting with a new harness...it pretty much falls into place and is obvious, at least in my experience. One circuit at a time. Test, verify, move to the next.
The only thing that could give you fits is the DB10...but even then, it should work out.
Just my $.02
-
I went through two new DB10 Lucas units until I realized that the new electronic versions cover was grounding on the posts. Apparently, the covers I had on both units were pushed on too hard and were making contact with the posts. Just something to check if you are using a new unit.
-
Turbo , now that I’m working in the cabin with a windscreen in I feel boxed in. One thing that I did was to add 9” extensions to the DB10 relay which allows a little more room for big hands.
The biggest mod to the facia would be to add a breakout of the steering column mount so that you don’t have to add the nuts to the column mount from underneath. Just add in two securing screws to the existing bracket below facia.
Bryan is correct, one circuit at a time.
I am thinking about putting in the 3/4 pvc pipes to hold up the facia again ,but I added metal plates to secure the crashpad that can be removed at any time.
With my big hands behind facia, I pulled out some of my led gauge lighting and bent my oil pressure line. 🥱
Finished the heater wiring and some other non Europa projects today 😁 . Tomorrow I should have it all back together. Then to secure the new fuse box and relay panel.
-
After a month and a half I finally had a few hours to work on the lotus. I started by getting into the side window travel. I removed the motor and regulator assembly and found a washer welded to the gear cog as a stop . I cut off two teeth on the down side and 1 cog on the up . It was pleasantly enough to seal the glass in the up position a bit tighter and added an inch in the down travel.
Dakazman
-
Continuing my quest for no water leaks I added door seals from an 84 Astro van and a smaller stick on off eBay. Pic 1. Doors shut pretty good but the left top hinge needs to come in a bit. For that reason I did not water test it.
The left side door worked pretty good with a small leak on the 1/4 glass front corner. Then a major leak above window…🥱I forgot to put a bolt in the sunvisors rod holes.
Then there is an additional seal on the outside lower window that I managed to fit and block out the massive gap there. It’s also a 85 Astro window seal. I took a pic of the P/N also. Had to manipulate it a little but it’s coming along. I may paint the little lip silver sir it blends a bit better.
Cutting down the inner lip will stop the bowing hopefully in the last pic .
Then I’ll see I I can buy another piece to use on the opposite side that was short by a few inches.
Dakazman
-
Moving along with my seatbelts, I placed an order for 10 yards of webbing 2” wide from Amazon.
I called the Ma site but after a quote of $99 each plus shipping it seemed logical to try to see how hard it would be to see two ends on .
I passed a sewing needle through by hand easily so now I’ll start cutting and melting the edges of the fabric. I’ll post a finished piece asap.
Dakazman
-
D'man, it sounds like you could do with some good information on how to sew webbing for load bearing applications. This is a good place to start
https://www.sailrite.com/How-to-Sew-Webbing-Loops
-
Good read Gideon.
I do have the fire retardant thread from when my BA sewed up the seats.
Funny thing, on the shoulder strap showed up when I was looking for the ends . Thinking it should have some kind of strength, nope, two pop rivets into a piece of plastic. I will be fabricating an aluminum plate here instead. See pic .
I’m just going to have the seamstress copy the pattern from the old webbing. Cut 4 short belts and pinned up , ready to go tomorrow.
Dakazman
-
I’m puzzled.
I learned a bit today about these kangol belts but now have more questions.
1. Why is there a magnet in the lift side of the belts?
2. I guess I’m old fashioned but I thought all belts were male / female ( working in the airline industry was pretty simple) How do these connect and stay together.
All most put a set together but I don’t see how it works.
The plastic shoulder strap was replaced with an aluminum piece but I’m still working to polish them up.
Dakazman
-
Yeah, I have a set or two and ran them, but I switched to modern replacements because they would auto-unlatch all the time. Made my wife a bit jumpy finding herself unexpectedly untethered. YMMV
-
Dave, it looks as though you're trying to put the two parts together the wrong way. The 'hook' goes around the black plastic piece with the matching radius, not the knurled metal bar. I believe the magnets should line up with the holes on the 'hook'. They're supposed to keep the two parts together and in the right position.
-
Thanks Gideon, that’s looks and feels better. It also answers what the magnet is for .🥱
Now that my end plates are polished up I can finish putting the shoulder strap section back together and pop rivet the ends on .
Dakazman
-
Finished the seat belt sets today. So the $20 bucks for the webbing was well worth the time spent in repairing them. I made some mistakes but they look better than throwing in the old one that wouldn’t adjust . The sets were done one at a time to check the plaoand routing of the webbing.
I added a stainless piece of trim to stop the rivets from pulling through the plastic ends. Getting the process correct was now learned to drill faster thru the webbing to prevent pulls.
Now I can get back inside the car and put everything back together!!!😁 Then to search for correct wiper blades that were posted a few weeks ago.
Any questions?
Dakazman
-
After several leak checks with spraying in water, I’m Happy. So I spent another 8 hours putting things back together and sorting out wire runs.
Searching for a small L bracket for the dash was found after I pulled the seat out to start putting in the seatbelts. Tomorrow should be clear sailing.😁👍
Dakazman
-
Clear sailing… lol .
Grandkids coming over and helping my daughter and son-in-law watch the kiddos.
I don’t know when my back feels worse, climbing into the Europa or chasing kids around my house.
I did he if to do some work but knowing that this would be the last time dropping the dash down I spent an enormous amount of time rechecking everything.
Dash and seatbelts assemblies installed.
Dakazman
-
Still doing baby steps getting Dolly up and running.
Grandkids come first and I get to straighten my back up . I’m now up to installing the steering wheel but need to put back on a few wires I pulled off. Then finish tightening the column nuts.
I added 6 gallons of fuel to the tank but no indication on the gauge 🥱 . It worked when I bench tested it. I’ll hook it up tomorrow and take out the temp tank. Then I installed the crashpad and now just have the console to install. Then back inside the car to glue the edges of the headliner. 😵💫
Then to do a final mounting of the fuse box and relay panel.
At least now I can go for a road test
Which way do the wiper arm go? Straight one , bent one?
Almost there!
Dakazman
-
I’ve seen wiper arms both ways. I thought I remembered how they went when my car was new - bent one on the driver’s side. But I could be wrong. They do work that way.
-
That makes sense , that it ,the bent arm would hover over the straight arm when at rest.
Thanks 😉
Dakazman
-
After taking a few detours on car shows, birthdays and just about everything else I got a few days of work on the lotus.
In fact having enough courage and faith that I pushed her out of the garage and started her up again but this time being fed by the OEM fuel tank. I removed the temp tank added a inline fuel filter and she started right up after a shot of starting fluid.
While idling a bit I jump in camera going only to find a problem with my gas pedal not returning to idol. I decided to not chance a first drive. some other instruments weren't come on line either, tacho and fuel. Then I saw steam coming from engine compartment, shut down engine and opened lid to find it overheating with fluid in compartment. afterwards I found I did not have the temp switch to the radiator hooked up, my bad... Then while pushing it into garage I found a puddle of engine oil... work in progress, but probably the fitting from the electric that I took out and went with a pressure line and gauge.
Maybe tomorrow,
PS, you wouldn't believe what fixed my van from dying at 40 MPH but showing 100 MPH, Changed out the instrument cluster , operation now normal. Signal from VSS to cluster then to ecm. The ecm gave up and shut down engine.
,
Dakazman
-
It's good that you found those problems before you ventured out in traffic! Better luck for tomorrow, D'man!!
-
Here are some pics . The last two are reality 🥱
D’man
-
Today was a half day, I had some landscaping chores the wife dreamed up and a trip to buy everything.
Then I found the oil leak , a low oil pressure sensor was not fully tightened... simple.
The overheat , might have been caused by a swirl pot cap not fully tightened. I thought the otter switch wasnt hooked up but the sensor was. I had a worm gear clamp on the overflow tube line that prevented the caps engagement,... hopefully.
Fixed the clutch pedal rearward movement by adding a bracket for a stop. yes, I screwed up and built the stop on the firewall side when I rebuilt the rusted out original assembly.
Freed up the throttle cable but the choke doesn't move. Tomorrow is another day sadly.
Dakazman
-
Again another setback.
Oil leak was the connectors to the block. I guess I’ll order the low oil pressure light sensor and it mounting boss.
Then my water leak was just the cap , where did the rubber gasket go in 35 years??? New cap should fix but after fixing the throttle cable connection and a different return spring, the hung throttle cable is now fixed. I’m still looking for a dual spring setup.
Then the big setback, but not for taking it for a test drive and was breaking the he choke cable anchor at the carb,,, made in China or I believe it was Redman. I’ll check my Weber extra pieces on Monday, hopefully
Dakazman
-
I’m a little disappointed with still not driving her after replacing the choke cable and finding my mistakes on the the throttle cable. The new radiator cap fixed the problem with leaking. The oil origin leak still eludes me . Finding clean oil is difficult with the engine off after the puddle is found.
The carb seems to bog a little coming off idle. The pedal has a slight hang up returning to idle also.
My console is now installed but I will loosen it to check the run.
Then I need to re tighten the cam belt and get rid of a slight wobble . The belt adjustment is on a learning process. Hiding the rest of the harness is next !
Then getting the gearbox in first was grinding as was the rest. I just want to scream …
Dakazman
-
Things are looking good! :beerchug:
I believe bogging is generally a sign of a rich mixture. Try turning in the idle mixture screws a quarter of a turn each until it goes away.
-
The most common place for an oil leak on this engine is the valve cover. The oil makes its way down and can easily look ill it is leaking from somewhere else. Carefully feel around the cover with a dry finger. If it becomes oily, you've found your problem.
-
I found it.
Being interrupted strikes again. When selecting a location for the oil pressure gauge line adapter I removed the most forward oil gallery plug as it was the closest to the firewall, but the adapter was the wrong thread pattern. I put the plug back in but with a large 17mm wrench . I must have hit the block stopping the wrench and didn’t look at the copper washer still loose. 🥱
Now to adjust the clutch cable, hopefully I didn’t pull the swedged ball off under the gas pedal.
Dakazman
-
Today was an interesting one, I fixed the oil leak but before running again I tried to install the 7mm roll pins in the haft shafts. I quit.😡 put in a machine bolt with an elastic stop nut.
Then I came up with measuring thd cam pulley thickness and adjusting the nuts in or out to get the belt to sit with the correct amount of deflection. After running for a bit I found another leak , this time on the upper hose to the radiator, tightened same no further issues.
Then I sat in the car to adjust mirrors , 🥱😂😂😂I locked myself in, but good thing the window came down and I opened from the outside. Child lock in either position I still can’t open from the inside.
I did get to put the timing light on an it was at 2 degrees btdc , set to 6 . Before setting it still wouldn’t start unless hit with some starting fluid.
Clutch pedal fixed for now, but did not confirm the fix . It was in my pedal assembly clutch bracket. I can now drive and fix the pedal later.
Throttle still sticking somewhere. Tomorrow…
Dakazman
-
Yes, the roll-pins are a pain.
I am going to fire up the lathe and make a tool.
Just a punch with a guide pin for the outer with a shoulder to drive it in.
The inner should be easier, I think.
-
Richard,
It would be well worth it . I’ll be your first customer if you perfect it , or get close.👍👍
I’ll tell you though, JB’s car lift bracket is another godsend. Working under the car is as safe as it gets for people without lifts.
Dakazman
-
Well today was filled with distractions, after building an 10 x 4 foot awning, that I'm still waiting for final approval on a color I went to work on the Europa. I chose to fix the interior door opening so that I can get out in case of fire. after tearing into the door to get to the linkage that came undone by slamming the door shut to test the rubber seal.
I set a goal for myself to go for a road test. opening my gate that I just built to keep neighbors out and constant interruptions. I pushed "Dolly" out and sprayed her with some of her favorite starting fluid. Then let her warm up as I gained the courage to set a mountable goal. Finding gears was a problem as I needed a few feet to backup to maneuver it down my driveway.
Sucess Reverse,
Off I went in second gear around and around in my cul-de-sac, then went for it down the street where my neighbor stared in disbelief and how low the car was and how big I looked in it.
Tomorrow is another day and I hope to set a first gear journey, and raise the brake pedal effectiveness.
-
:beerchug:
I can hardly wait to drive around my cul-de-sac!
-
Congratulations, D'man!!! Your first drive!! Woo hoo!! :beerchug:
-
Now I have a bigger list to complete though. 1 & 3 was impossible to get into gear, so that is job 1, as is adjusting the brake pedal a little higher. Getting the tach and fuel gauge working would also be on top of my list. Hide wires last . Tune carb, add Freon and get the ac system last.
Regardless of the time and energy involved , I LOVE IT!
I’ll post some video of the next ride.
Dakazman
-
Well today was filled with distractions, after building an 10 x 4 foot awning, that I'm still waiting for final approval on a color I went to work on the Europa. I chose to fix the interior door opening so that I can get out in case of fire. after tearing into the door to get to the linkage that came undone by slamming the door shut to test the rubber seal.
I set a goal for myself to go for a road test. opening my gate that I just built to keep neighbors out and constant interruptions. I pushed "Dolly" out and sprayed her with some of her favorite starting fluid. Then let her warm up as I gained the courage to set a mountable goal. Finding gears was a problem as I needed a few feet to backup to maneuver it down my driveway.
Sucess Reverse,
Off I went in second gear around and around in my cul-de-sac, then went for it down the street where my neighbor stared in disbelief and how low the car was and how big I looked in it.
Tomorrow is another day and I hope to set a first gear journey, and raise the brake pedal effectiveness.
My first drive in 693R, August 2007, after a whirlwind reconstruction that started with disassembling the donor car the last week of April '07, and around the block the 3rd week of August of that same year.
Took another 18 months to do the body work, FWIW. Some things happen quickly...others...not so fast.
http://www.lotuseuropa.us/0693r/photos/movies/cominghome.mpg
-
Well! Congratulations, Dave. Very good. Honestly, I wasn't sure it would ever happen. Keep it drivable, and keep driving it!... I say.
-
Thanks guys, you’re so right fotog, but with all adjustments,… now I have 1000 reasons for road test🥱😂
That’s when the fun begins.
Dave
-
:trophy: congratulations D'man
-
Congrats DMAN on your first drive! I remember mine and my reaction was the same as yours.
-
My first drive was without windshield or doors. I quickly fitted a windshield but did some high speed runs still without doors. Got more than a few looks.
-
Congrats D Man! Very exciting stuff. :beerchug:
-
I started bright and early today finding and fixing several problems I found during yesterday’s ride. I had a long paragraph on it that I lost while typing it,,so this will be shortened. I found another problem oil pressure line leaking but probably fixed the gearbox, tach, choke cable.
So all in all a good day until I got called in to babysit. No problem, I was waiting for the kids to play with a new stash of wheels 1lb and 5 lbs of assorted pieces. It was epic with all the oh and aughs.
Dakazman
-
I’m learning how to cut time off working behind the facia, or dashboard. By leaving the column bolted to the facia and just removing the 4 screws on the facia and the two side bolts thru door jambs. Also the console and bottom ground bolts 2ea. The access to the gauges is very easy.
All this for an oil leak at the pressure gauge and since my fuel gauge wasn’t working I found the problem after probing wiring. My sender has Three connectors, two large spade connectors and a smaller spade . Not remembering what I used to repair the unit when I received it new I just connected it to the larger spade. I swapped to the smaller spade on the sender and up came the needle on the gauge.
Then I started the car and had RPM, oil and a working fuel gauge.
Tomorrow I’m going to remove the LED instrument lights and go back to the original ones. A lot of work but well worth it.
DMAN
-
A welcome break from working under the facia getting the instrument lighting correct. With my head buried under the steering wheel my wife announces that my son in law is coming over….
No reason but will be there soon .
I knew something was up and guessed correctly.
My son in law’s grandfather came over with his new toy, waiting forever for it he received a foundation issue Tesla x pickup.
It is an amazing vehicle.. I did get to drive it also and now I’ll try to get my wife on board.
He also got a chance to sit in my Lotus, at complete ends of some spectrum he loved the feel the Europa gave him. Barely up to the Tesla’s tire height.
It won me over. Buy it!
Dakazman
-
Did you take a photo with it "hidden" behind the Europa?
-
No, but I’ll definitely get one next time. Bill, the owner did get into my Europa, he grinned ear to ear and mentioned the spectrum difference. He can’t wait to drive mine also.
Re- wiring my instrument lights has been challenging , but I should be done tomorrow, now with everything working.
Dman
-
Confirmed, TESLA is laying off 700 employees.
That long wait, is going to get longer!
The CyTruck flippers on BAT are rapidly losing their margin of profit.
There is a recall already, and Tesla has to give you permission to resell so quickly too.
In a year current MSRP may not be possible, I expect a price reduction.
And nothing can fix the Ugly.
Yes it's true, I am not a fan.
-
I’m not a fan of the Cyber Truck, especially how it looks, either but the one on auction at BaT is bid above the list price ($110K bid; $102K list with five days left): https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2024-tesla-cybertruck-awd-7/.
So far, not much of a payday but for a 300 mile truck, it’s not nothing. Don’t ask me to explain it.
-
Ugly needs love too .
See pic .
Did I mention you can kick this hard with no damage ,shoot at windows without damage, Small caliber of course .
Still, I have my respect for the craftsmanship .
As for price point, as with everything nowadays is more expensive , hopefully prices will come down . The “,Beast” is the most expensive and crazy fast . I hit 70 in 3 sec on his , fast enough for me . Steering lock to lock in a one way street, easy , no k turn required.
D’man
-
In their first year the Fiat X19 was being flipped at up to $2,000 over retail too.
I nearly bought one.
If I had been able to get a test drive I might have.
Despite several on the lot a test drive was impossible, even just sitting in one was also impossible. Every car in sight was already sold.
My delivery would have been six months out.
No way I was going put down a deposit and make six months of payments without so much as seeing if I fit!
That was on the same day the BMC/Lotus dealer refused to even talk to me.
At least the Fiat dealer was friendly.
So the CT fever is nothing new, just bigger numbers.
In the end they will also lose value quickly, the folk paying substantially over retail will look silly, and life returns to normal.
I think we could have a nice one of every model Europa for less than one CT. 8)
-
In their first year the Fiat X19 was being flipped at up to $2,000 over retail too.
I nearly bought one.
If I had been able to get a test drive I might have.
Despite several on the lot a test drive was impossible, even just sitting in one was also impossible. Every car in sight was already sold.
My delivery would have been six months out.
No way I was going put down a deposit and make six months of payments without so much as seeing if I fit!
That was on the same day the BMC/Lotus dealer refused to even talk to me.
At least the Fiat dealer was friendly.
So the CT fever is nothing new, just bigger numbers.
In the end they will also lose value quickly, the folk paying substantially over retail will look silly, and life returns to normal.
I think we could have a nice one of every model Europa for less than one CT. 8)
I remember back during the '79 manufactured Carter Fuel Crisis, VW Diesels were going for 5K over list that summer (and back then, a new Rabbit L Diesel listed for 6100 and change). I waited till December for mine and got it for list minus trade in. Great little buggies (if a bit lacking in the acceleration department...but they did average 45+ mpg on the highway in 5th gear.
Still have a VW diesel, and have continuously since '80.
-
After removing my LED instrument lights for just being to dainty and a mismatch in intensity in my gauges I went back to the OEM bayonet sockets . Then afterwards fighting ground connections, I’m still not happy with the mismatch in two new gauges, the amp meter which matches and the oil pressure which is different than the rest by having illumination around the entire gauge.
I guess I’ll have to live with it but while the facia is out I thought I could swap different bulbs but to no avail. I thought about reclocking the temp and fuel so that the socket sat on top of the gauge where the illumination bleds from behind legend.
Dakazman
-
Hmmm . . I wonder if the brightness differences couldn't be altered by painting part of the interior of the gauge either black or silver depending on which direction you want to go.
That way, they could all be a bit too dark which is closer to standard. ;D
-
Your probably correct Gavin, dimming down the full illuminating ring would be the best solution than having it glaring at you or having a yellow glow. I”lol look into it today and see if I can break into it. It’s a mechanical oil pressure btw.
I didn’t want another delay but there is no sense putting everything back in and having regrets later. 🥱🥱👍👍
D’man
-
This is the best I can do. Two new gauges and two old, I could try to clock the fuel and temp gauge so that it is as bright as the other two newer gauges. It seems I can live with this until the other two crap out.
I’m putting it back together tomorrow but with 4 separate grounds and forget about a daisy chain.
D’man m
-
I had a whole day to reassemble the interior. Facia with gauges working and lower brackets set to accept the console. Harness tucked under the right side and A/C louvers not getting locked up.
Now to just mount the working fuse holders and ground bar on a closing panel under dash.
Dakazman
-
The final pieces are falling together! :pirate:
-
Yes it feels good BDA .
I think the gearshift problem is also fixed but will road test tomorrow. I also need to watch the speedometer this next time. It’s amazing how many things you’re looking at when driving.
My garage looks lovely me a bomb hit it with my daughters E-bike parts laying around. New batteries on the way but when temps up to 98 f today with humidity at over 100% painting it looks bleak.
Dakazman
-
Wrapping up the wiring harnesses new home under dash. A few more hours of uninterrupted unscrambling of the four main levels. Then adding a closeout to cover the left side under das area.
Then the fun begins, I added two cars to my Hagerty policy. Then my wife was happy when she found out a car carrier is considered a shelter, so she will get a spot back in the garage. The funny part was the Hyundai just fixed a recall that they suggested the car be parked outside.
Dakazman
-
I remember back during the '79 manufactured Carter Fuel Crisis,
Or do you mean the Fuel Crisis caused by the 1979 Iranian Revolution that took back their country from the US puppet government placed in 1953 for BP oil? :confused:
-
As usual another delay, nothing wrong on the car side just that appointments are required to deal with the dmv (division of motor vehicles) . Good thing my daughter told me about this change.
July 11 will be the day I can drive both Europa and the Elky😁. Going with antique plates on all three with a maximum of 500 miles per year . Now to work finding a trailer to keep one inside it is considered as garage kept which hagerty requires.
Dakazman
-
Going with antique plates on all three with a maximum of 500 miles per year .
That's really going to put a cramp on those 1000 mile weekend roar trips ;)
-
500 mile limit would be a deal breaker for me.
After spending years to restore a car I intend to DRIVE it!
Next owner can restore it again.
-
Really! So you can only go for a 10 mile spin once a week? You should think this through further!
-
Guys, Guys
The speedometer doesn't work... YET or I really didn't pay attention to it just driving down the street. :FUNNY: I have a spare speedometer that I can throw in. Another reason that I haven't taken her out yet is because she looks terrible. Plus I have 8 vehicles.
Dakazman
-
It's hard to imagine that it looks terrible since you've polished the bejesus out of every part. You should see mine!
If it's not already however, it's guaranteed to ultimately be your most fun car to drive. For certain!
-
Mine stopped working at one point. I just needed to reseat the cable in the back of the speedometer, and make sure it wasn't bent too sharply. I've bought a right angle fitting which should help with this if I have a problem again later or am working in that area....
-
Sorry guys,
I was a little bit under the weather and cancelled my appointment with the DMV. I did set up another appointment for Monday.
I really can't wait to drive my baby down the road, and start a new chapter of driving a LOTUS EUROPA.
Dakazman
-
Silverbeast, what right angle fitting did you get? I went looking a while back, but couldn't convince myself I'd found one with both the right fittings, and the right turn direction.
-
Silverbeast, what right angle fitting did you get? I went looking a while back, but couldn't convince myself I'd found one with both the right fittings, and the right turn direction.
It was from Ebay and described as a Rover P6 speedo angle drive. I can't say for certain it is correct, I just took a punt on it. I haven't fitted it yet as I only got it in April 2021!
-
Silver , :FUNNY: :FUNNY:
Time does fly by.
Dakazman
-
Another milestone today , two more cars on the road but now all are antiques .
Sequential plates too!
Good thing I titled my cars when purchased, the lotus couldn’t be found but when I showed the the title they found it. It had been purged from their system.
Now the real work begins, Hopefully with a smile on my face.
Dakazman
-
Having sequential license plates is pretty cool! :BEER3:
-
8) 8) 8)
-
After gaining some courage to go for a ride , thinking I’ll make a video 😂😂😂 that went south fast. I tried to just pump the gas pedal and crank it over and get it to start, but noticed I didn’t hook up the choke cable at carb . Lost the lock screw also… so I sprayed some starting fluid onto carb filter and it started. I couldn’t get it to idle that well and played with moving distributor slightly clockwise and cow. Finally found a good idle then I went for reverse , no joy . Tightened some of the bolts on the gearbox and with engine off I got confirmation of shifter going in gear At least forward and aft. So I jumped in started her up and backed out of garage SLOWLY, not actually using the brakes and trying to keep engine running. Then tried to get first , no joy just grinding.
So I put it in second and down the driveway I went . I few laps around the circle in front of my house I went down the road. Then turned down the next road watching the speedometer which does work, showing 15 mph and getting a slight wave in front end , up and down motion in tune with the tires diameter. Just something to consider when driving faster later . Then I tried to brake without driving shoes, so a bit clumsy but brake was lower than I like but very much hard and useful. After a short 360 I went back towards my home but said I going around the smaller oval block. 😀 made it easily staying in second the entire ride and made it home.
Wow , I have some work ahead for me but enjoyed every loud minute of it . Maybe some video next time or so.
Dakazman
-
Congratulations on your first ride! :beerchug:
I can’t wait for the video!
-
:trophy:
-
Excellent!
-
:trophy: First post-restoration ride and the wheels didn't fall off. We can call that a win. Congrats D :beerchug:
-
Sounds like a win to me too! +1 vote for video next time! :))
-
After gaining some courage to go for a ride , thinking I’ll make a video 😂😂😂 that went south fast. I tried to just pump the gas pedal and crank it over and get it to start, but noticed I didn’t hook up the choke cable at carb . Lost the lock screw also… so I sprayed some starting fluid onto carb filter and it started. I couldn’t get it to idle that well and played with moving distributor slightly clockwise and cow. Finally found a good idle then I went for reverse , no joy . Tightened some of the bolts on the gearbox and with engine off I got confirmation of shifter going in gear At least forward and aft. So I jumped in started her up and backed out of garage SLOWLY, not actually using the brakes and trying to keep engine running. Then tried to get first , no joy just grinding.
So I put it in second and down the driveway I went . I few laps around the circle in front of my house I went down the road. Then turned down the next road watching the speedometer which does work, showing 15 mph and getting a slight wave in front end , up and down motion in tune with the tires diameter. Just something to consider when driving faster later . Then I tried to brake without driving shoes, so a bit clumsy but brake was lower than I like but very much hard and useful. After a short 360 I went back towards my home but said I going around the smaller oval block. 😀 made it easily staying in second the entire ride and made it home.
Wow , I have some work ahead for me but enjoyed every loud minute of it . Maybe some video next time or so.
Dakazman
My first ride around the block in August 2007 on a thursday afternoon after mating the body and frame for 693R the previous saturday:
http://www.lotuseuropa.us/0693r/photos/movies/cominghome.mpg
Good feeling, no? Congrats!
-
Cool video!!! For some reason I had to download it to view it.
-
I have a new goal, actually a foul I made a year ago. Track night at Daytona international speedway. Set for August 1 I intend to drive around the speedway, one lap at least for free.
They have classes available for a fee described here . https://www.tracknightinamerica.com/pages/what-s-track-night-in-america
So I need to say focused! Thanks BDA . I identified a start up problem in the sleeve of the pedal moving and inhibiting a start. I guess the throttle plate was opened to much. I’ll have to add some shrink wrap electrical covers to hold it in the apparatus.
Found the circuit causing the drain on battery but not the exact location or component.
White wire with fuse in and ignition off, drain. Fuse out , no drain.
Dakazman
-
You need to make sure you’re ready for Daytona, D’man!!
-
Came across what I thought was going to be L-O-T-U-S . This was my third time checking the valve adjustments. And found this . 🤔 see pic After a few sleepless nights I replace the rocker and manually cranked the engine over , and over , and over checking the clearances . Could not identify why it happened in the first place.
I’m ready to Start it up again and test the gearbox again for all 4 and reverse gears , that I get easily when engine not running. 1st, 3rd and recall grinding when trying to select. Any ideas’ ?
Dakazman
-
Something went solid at some time. Who knows when.
-
After turning the engine round and round, I can only think it was damaged before my rebuild. I just missed it. I’ve bent pushrods before on other engines and it seems strange that the pushrod is in perfect shape but cracked the rocker.
Playing around with my shifter linkage to try to get 1st and third now without grinding and install another old battery, circa 2020.
Can’t wait to drive it again soon
Dakazman
-
I’ve been trying to work of the shifter, I found it correctly labeled chapter F . I won’t get into what the F stands for but replacing any of the relay lever components you are F’d .
I found some slop and a self locking nut that is on the center of the linkage, the pivot point.
How are you guys getting to that area? Even an s1 I can’t see getting to anything .
How can you build a car that can’t be adjusted?
I’m pissed. I’ve been in tight spots but this is ridiculous. I may have to pull the interior and the firewall down to make corrections.
Dakazman
-
I believe I have the same type of linkage you have. Of course, mine is not the same as yours so my situation might be totally different from yours. I can get to it from under the car. I suppose you've already tried that so after that, I got nottin...
-
I believe I found and temporarily fixed the grinding noise when going for 1st or third with engine running.
Like i said previously the fulcrum bolt was loose, the elastic stop nut is worn out and I could turn it by hand . Then I saw the grinding noise origin. I’ll replace this one fitting and change out the crankshaft pulley bolt with something with less of a head .
I’ll road test tomorrow, but feel confident.
-
Well that would certainly make a grinding noise!
-
I’d say that rod end is a little too close to that pulley!
-
Turbo , yes it did, but I was happy it’s not synchros. ( testing for sure tomorrow)
BDA, The bottom picture , in gear, is the distance now that the center pivot is in its place .
That’s an 18mm head on that bolt holding the pulley on. I’ll look for a replacement. The cross rod ends have an upgraded number in the manual that I’ll also be replacing.
The manual is a little confusing to follow the names of the rods and purpose. Not to mention watching vertical movement on others.
Dakazman
-
Not new to plan C..D,E,F, Its a definite that the pully bolt be changed out to something with less of a head .
That didn't get me down as I went for a ride around two different blocks in my area. Hitting speeds of 30 mph in second at 3000.
I have a new found fear now.
Coming head on to vehicles that are twice your height, on roads without a centerline was scary, and I found myself steering for the curbs. Still its extremely exhilarating to drive.
Starting is still a problem without starting fluid, but now at least the engine idols nicely at 1500 , I bring that down to specs soon.
At least now I can charge up the A/C system and play with that also.
Dakazman
-
:trophy:
I finally got all my gears with no grinding. I took the crank 19MM M12x1.25.x50 bolt out and replaced it with a shaved down bolt.
I still have some operator error to factor in, getting used to where the sweet spot is... or or that fact where any of them are. :FUNNY:
Idle good at 800 rpm but need to adjust carb. My cheap choke cable doesn't quite fully return fully. Still needing a shot of starting fluid but starts easily afterwards.
With all the idling water temp stays between n and h.
I'll call this a win today, I drove it another 2 miles, this time without worrying about stalling out so braking was easier with my big foot out of the way with the clutch pedal in. Everything is a learning curve.,but I LOVE this car .
Dakazman
-
8) :beerchug:
-
:pirate: time for :BEER3:
-
👍
-
:headbanger:
Well that was short lived! Came out to this on the floor. See pic.
Gearbox needs to come out , heavy oil leak out of bellhousing. Probably the seal !
At least the job is fresh in my mind and I like to beat my own times. It’s a sick obsession.
Dakazman
-
Bummer!!
-
Gearbox out .
Started about 9am and out at 10:30 .
Now to tear down. You can still see the oil coming out of the lower drain hole . I m pretty sure I ordered an extra seal for my spare gearbox, so hopefully I’ll have this back together today.
My hoist was a lifesaver to lift , twist, rotate and lower .
Dakazman
-
I think I found the problem.
Is this seal in backwards ? You’re looking at it from the pressure side.
Dakazman
-
The seal should be oriented such that the oil is on the "open" side of the seal. Or put another way, any oil pressure should augment the pressure imparted by the spring that holds the seal against the shaft. Does that help?
-
Yup, backwards
-
JB, Another seal on order from RD, I'm also going to install the backup gearbox I picked up from a guy in California. The reasoning is because I found more aluminum shavings ( still to be determined), after draining the gearbox only after 4 miles. It will also give me a idea of what I purchased. The gear lash was higher than recommended but not by much, as much as I can remember anyway. WTS, I'll tear into the "original gearbox" further than where I left off. Rather do it no and repair something that hasn't exploded. I post its disassembly.
Also remember, this is the gearbox that the primary shaft splits off with no roll pin hole on the front side and no evidence of it per manual.
Track Day at Daytona set for August 1st still. Wife is very nervous with that entire plan, but I hope to calm her down and listen to her concerns. I'm not racing just going around a track in line with Professionals , HOPEFULLY.
Still have to get in and put on my helmet. :FUNNY:
Dakazman
-
I transferred over parts from my gearbox to the spare, one hole needs to be upsized, but I’ll put that aside for now.
I started the dissembling process. This is my first endeavor into a gearbox. Found no catastrophic damage but I do have concerns about the primary shaft bearings. The front and rear move out of there races and the rear outer looks like it may be spinning. The first 10 seconds show the float.
https://youtube.com/shorts/3C5JRETKRRA?si=EMx60wC0a_dwPm87
Other miscellaneous pictures included for any other advice you may want to give me.
-
I couldn't find anything in the parts or workshop manuals that would keep that shaft from walking like your video shows but I would think there would be SOMETHING!! On my NG3, the 5th gear goes there but you only have 4... I would look at the end of that primary shaft (where something should be present to keep the shaft from walking) area of the case for wear for the source of those aluminum shavings.
-
It is hard to tell for sure what with not being there. You do not have a pinned input shaft so someone has been in there before you. Just changed parts? Got another transaxle? Who knows.
http://lotus-europa.com/manuals/s2parts/f/fd.htm
This shows the stock set up. The input shaft is located by the rear tapered roller bearing. The bearing itself is located by a spacer and shim. So, yes, your input shaft is free to slide about with the rear cover off.
-
The output bearing races look shot from here (the dull band between the shiny edges), I would plan on replacing them now or be forced to in a few thousand miles. Very likely the others are gone as well; mine were.
-
JB,
I remember your concern about that input shaft not being pinned maybe a year ago.
I'll post more pics, but it seems that the coupler is on the aft side of the primary shaft. Not at all what the manual shows. I'm in the parts manual learning all the nomenclature
so forgive me if I'm rambling about it. I could drill a hole in the forward primary shaft thru the coupling as an addition.
I'm just wrapping my head around someone drilling thru the aft primary to fit the coupling there. The parts shows the coupling on the input shat but the tension pin #5 more aft , so someone could have drilled it . It definitely is attached to it now but has a little play in the primary side and not thru the coupling.
A few other books show,352/354 in the sectional the roll pin in the primary shaft but what I believe for part clarity on the input shaft . so I'm still looking for a sectional view on the 336.
I did find the reason for the slop in the bearings the #8- retaining ring fell out , so you were correct about that movement for sure.
Can this # 3 bearing 046 f 6051 be purchased ? Do you recommend it. What else should I change out, or replace while in here?
I got a lot more reading to do.
Thanks 314159td will do.
Dakazman
-
I’m glad to see you have the Renault manuals. They are light years better than the Lotus manual. Look at the bearings races to see if they need changing.
-
My vote to change all the bearings and seals anyway.
-
Guys, Consider it done. Where are most parts found?
I noticed the parts manual says I should have yellow synchros. Where are the colors found so I can verify.
JB , yes the lotus manuals are hard to read , sometimes with letters missing on an entire paragraph, okay maybe not that bad. The Renault books are very legible and detailed.
My seal should show up tomorrow for the housing, even though I removed it and reinstalled. Not going to guess so it’s gone. I’ll be installing the spare gearbox , I need to know its weaknesses so I’m not just pushing it around my garage thinking it’s a true spare.
Dave
-
renault16shop.com probably has everything you need and if they don’t have something, 123bearing.com would probably have it.
-
So all the torque from the engine is being handled by one little pin in the input shaft :confused:
-
So all the torque from the engine is being handled by one little pin in the input shaft :confused:
The coupler is splined on both ends, pin is just for retention
-
I see that now ::)
-
I noticed the parts manual says I should have yellow synchros. Where are the colors found so I can verify.
I am far from an expert on such things, but I think the reference to "yellow" synchros might be an indication they should be made of brass or a bronze material.
-
BDA , 321 has two bearings so far, one one aft primary measured 50 mm and it should be 52 mm. Other than that, I can’t see anything else wrong. I’ll check what other items ( various shims) Renault 16 shop has . The grandkids came over so it was playtime.
Bainford, I cleaned up the secondary and indeed it’s yellow paint on the synchros. I’m reading what a complete rebuild means in the manuals.
Tomorrow I’ll be putting in the spare gearbox… with new seal that arrived today, Thanks RD.
Dakazman
-
I have no experience with a 366 tranny but your pictures look like you have 2 synchros stacked on top of each other. I’d also advise you to look at my write up of my experience rebuilding my NG3 (https://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=6368.msg68576#msg68576). Obviously the details will be different but the design isn’t that much different but you might gain some insights and/or tips.
Somebody a while ago said his rule for clutches is, “If you see the clutch, change it.” I’d give the same advice on tranny bearings, seals, and o-rings. Do you want to tear the tranny apart to replace a bearing you could have replaced when you rebuilt it the last time?
It looked like renault16shop.com would probably have everything you’ll need (if they don’t list it, email them. They are very responsive!). If you need something they don’t have, 123bearing.com probably has it (if you don’t see it there, email their customer service. Not everything is properly listed). If they don’t have it, try Olivier (read my write up).
Good luck with the spare tranny!
-
I noticed the parts manual says I should have yellow synchros. Where are the colors found so I can verify.
I am far from an expert on such things, but I think the reference to "yellow" synchros might be an indication they should be made of brass or a bronze material.
Bainford, Other than holding a magnet to mine they are steel. The manual explains the colors in section F page 21 . I’m no expert either and not going to replace items just to do so . With only 86k on the odometer. That should be just breaking in .🤣 brass seems to be limited to the forks on the secondary.
BDA , Thanks . I enjoyed your story. I remember reading parts of it when you documented it .
321 has two bearings and Renault16shop had a slew of parts . I’ve purchased the pinion adjustment nuts and seals from them prior. Remember that fiasco of getting them out?
Gotta run and finish cutting the lawn so I can get to the installation of the spare gearbox. I’m interested in seeing what I purchased a few years back.
Dakazman
-
:WTF: Long Day.
If you know me ,... it has to look good.
I took off the bottom link mount and re-threaded both gearbox holes with a fine thread ,it was the next size up and worked perfectly with the one damaged hole. Then making sure the bolt selected was not longer than needed. I found the source of my original gearbox oil leak was a longer bolt . That said it had cracked the case internally.
Another test after getting it in will be making sure I have 4 forward gears and one reverse. This is a 336 - 66. from initally testing when received it was all good.
Lookin good, not polished as normal, painted with gloss black paint and proceeded to make a gasket for the bell housing. so there it lay ready for lifting. I'm Beat.
Tomorrow, I know the clock is ticking for 0453r's debut at Daytona International Speedway on August 1ST. Track night, free lap on the speedway. Trailer rental hopefully this week.
Dakazman
-
I’m personally crossing my fingers, and clapping (Tinkerbell, you know) that you get the car all together and off to the show.
-
The manual explains the colors in section F page 21 .
The colors are for tolerance grouping the press-fit parts; if you are keeping the same shaft and synchronizers hubs together you don't need to worry about it.
It basically means that from the factory, Renault determined that having looser tolerances and sorting parts that fit best was cheaper than making the tolerances tighter and all parts fully interchangeable. Also the cost of stocking all of those different tolerance group parts as spares.
There shouldn't be markings for that on the synchronizers themselves.
-
314159td
Thanks for that info, I’m just a novice inside this thing. As JB and BDA stated bearings gotta go
Races showing corrosion or overheating, but I need to get a better chart to confirm.
The spare 336-66 in now installed. It took me the entire day to do so. A nap midday had priority.
I’ll fill the gearbox tomorrow and re-adjust the cam pulley. It suppose-ably came out of a tc and was upgraded for a 5 speed .
With 11 days to go my wife actually made some phone calls about renting a trailer for a 60 mile trip up to Daytona. Tomorrow’s road test and the rest of the week I’ll try to get it up to 50 mph. Tune carb and clean up some loose ends inside car.
Then to try on the helmet required at track nite. Maybe next year I’ll opt for some real track time .
Dakazman
Dakazman
-
I noticed the parts manual says I should have yellow synchros. Where are the colors found so I can verify.
I am far from an expert on such things, but I think the reference to "yellow" synchros might be an indication they should be made of brass or a bronze material.
Bainford, Other than holding a magnet to mine they are steel. The manual explains the colors in section F page 21 .
Cheers Dakazman. Thanks for the clarification. I'll wind my neck in now.
-
Trevor,
I was under the assumption that they were made of brass also and routinely replaced. I just saw the information and passed it on. I appreciate anyone who helps here.
As far as road testing today, good and bad news , good it definitely has 4 forward and one reverse
Bad, Assuming that 1/3/ and reverse can be found. Glad just to verify I will not have 4 reverse speeds. I did turn it and watched the direction but now I now for sure.
Getting back to it now to adjust something.
But first going to the manual to see where reverse is on a 336/66 gearbox .
Dakazman
-
Road test again tomorrow. 😁
Ooops , I didn’t tighten this coupler on gearbox, after that in neutral all is well.
Found the correct gear pattern in the parts manual, same as the -26, and 46 and I’ll add -56 and the 66 . Dang, reverse lights work😁.
But then there is the downside… the seals leak , BUT , maybe only when having the ass end raised up. So that’s a , to be determined “.
Dakazman
-
After adjusting the ball joint on front link ,to an extreme on the relay lever, I pushed the shifter extreme right but no help. Then went in the other direction, I succeeded in getting 1st and 3rd , Rev was a challenge, but I did get it . I'll lengthen the ball joint on the rear link which should make it easier. Then I furthered the clearance on the pully by countersinking the bolt head into it.
Then as for having the exxon valdise, for seals on the gearbox I replaced both assemblies with the new set off my original gearbox from renault16shop, but since they leaked a bit I thought I'd try adding another O'ring on the differential shaft. Tightened both side exactly as when I took them off . 8 full turns plus 4 ribs, which was almost exact number on both sides as my gearbox.
Its been 5 hours, not a drop on the floor.
Dakazman
-
Unusual - your 2nd and 3rd photo's appear to show the adjustment shims (for roll pin interference) somehow still attached to the crown wheel bearing adjustment collar (also seal carrier) - is that right? They must be wedged within the seal somehow. :confused:
Also - is that a single or double lip seal shown and where exactly is your additional "O ring" sitting? Is it on the face of the seal, between and in the recess of the 2 lips of the seal (assuming a double lip seal) - its clever and clearly forward thinking and a true credit to you - but I don't understand what it (or "they" for both sides) are going to do and moreover, how they are going to do it.
-
Dilkris, good eye on the shims. I sightless pushed the in there for safekeeping while moving them.
The thinking of the additional o ring is to slightly push up the seal inner lip to put slightly more pressure on the differential seat .
As I was answering this I ran out and checked my work . Two drops dime size on each side of gearbox, I’ll take that as an improvement for now.
Added pics to show improvement over previous above pic.
Dakazman
-
Understood regarding the shims - that's quite clever thinking with the additional o ring.
Regarding the oil seepage - it may well not be passing the seal that you are focusing on, but from the drive shaft spacer which equally provides the seal running face for the lip of your seal. Oil can (and does) pass between the common splines of this spacer and the drive shafts and should be prevented by doing so by an o ring which sits within the end recess of the said spacer.
I fear I am not explaining this well but please refer to attached photo of the spacer, where you can clearly see the splines in question and the recess on the end for the O ring.
If you are not clear on the above please revert and I will drag out some more pictures and diagrams.
-
You’re correct about the leaking in your pic and diagram. I had also replaced those under the caps, and greased the spline. The same seals that were there looked good so I left them in. So the two things I’m comparing are my new nut seals to my original gear leak which was larger then it is now with the added O ring. I took a picture after 24 hours still better .
The pictured nuts and seal were on this gearbox were in terrible shape.
I wonder if adding a Teflon seal shim might also help, we used them on 3000 lb hydraulic o rings.
Dakazman
-
Looking at your first pic - when I reassembled my drive train I put Hylomar on that o ring before inserting the spacer on the output drive shaft, (from memory it was recommended from this forum). The second and thinner o ring there I assume is your revision to the main seal correct?
The second pic is worrying - the wear on that external face of the seal carrier/bearing preload nut looks like it has been making contact with the drive shaft yoke - running with a roll pin missing maybe?
Assembled correctly, with recommended seals and o rings plus Hylomar, (also on the nut/seal threads), they generally are trouble free.
They have however regularly caused a whole world of pain and have been discussed at great length on this forum.
Good luck. :)
-
Dilkris, First pic , I was thinking about adding hylomar to the o ring and when I put the original gearbox back in I will do.
Second seal is my addition, but I’m thinking of adding in its place a Teflon flat seal so the the nut has a better surface to trap the oil.
Second pic your absolutely correct no shims installed but I did use a machine screw in lieu of the roll pin . That’s one job that is a PIA.
I was following that thread awhile back but I was not quite ready for it. I’m learning fast.
Another road test tomorrow to test out the shifter linkage . After that re check timing and my valve train, then start tuning the Weber Fake .
Dakazman
-
After my drive carriers no longer leak but the new input shaft seal leaking. I’ll work on that when I put back in the original gearbox.
Moving along I set the timing again but had the same problem seeing my mark on flywheel. Engine settled in at approximately 1200 rpm, no vacuum leaks . I’ll try to do a compression test on the cylinders then proceed to adjusting the carb.
I spent the rest of the day rehanging the rt side door that had a hard time closing with the door seal in. All good there now.
So with sweat pouring I cleaned up the car a bit.
The shifter is coming along and I’ll set up a few videos I did getting all 4 and reverse until I didn’t… so maybe one of you with better eyes and experience can see the problem if any on the linkage at gearbox.
Again I had an encounter with a large truck coming at me on my side of road so sorry about the language in advance.
Posted this plus two more
https://youtu.be/7FVevNx_9Jg?si=AkihZtHwTx4WkqX8
https://youtube.com/shorts/MMoA6c1K8aY?si=hoz-9tauaNxqkXhi
https://youtube.com/shorts/yy7dD8OhIwU?si=-meYlXdJN9HYf99S
Beware Language just once at end . 😳
Dakazman
-
I have no advice ….. just wanted to say your dash etc look great!
-
Thanks turbo. 😄. I posted the videos.
Dave
-
G'day, Dave,
In your first video, the cross-shaft extension bracket (the triangular appendage) seems to flap around on it's shaft quite a lot. I reckon that's a fair bit of slop that could be reclaimed towards productive gear shift movement.
It's also fairly common to see the cross bolt having flogged out the hole in the thin walled triangular bracket and I've seen instances where a second bold is added. Be careful, though; this shaft has also been known to break.
Gavin
-
G’day Gavin,
Thanks for clearing that up, I’ve never saw a 336 linkage in motion myself and you verified my suspicions. I’ll get on the aft plate first , I may have to sleeve that piece. The bolt that holds it on is tight but the piece is loose .
The other rod , that supposed to stay vertical does rotate a bit in the plate, two new rubber gaskets there so tightening that bolt doesn’t do much. I have noticed other members on Facebook have beefed up that rod and added additional support plates. 🤔
Dave
-
G’day Gavin,
Thanks for clearing that up, I’ve never saw a 336 linkage in motion myself and you verified my suspicions. I’ll get on the aft plate first , I may have to sleeve that piece. The bolt that holds it on is tight but the piece is loose .
The other rod , that supposed to stay vertical does rotate a bit in the plate, two new rubber gaskets there so tightening that bolt doesn’t do much. I have noticed other members on Facebook have beefed up that rod and added additional support plates. 🤔
Dave
Where to start?
First...I'm going to assume that all the heims/rod ends are fresh.
Second...make sure that you have a short spacer at the BOTTOM of the heim on the actuator adapter (see photo) otherwise the joint will bind, and you'll never get a 'solid feel' because the joint will be busy threading itself in and out as you move it. (Part 16 on page FG...everyone forgets it...and I've never seen it on cars I've worked on...until I put one on there...see the photo)
Third...resist the urge to somehow 'solidify' the location link on the top of the case (part #11 on page FG). New top-hat grommets and heim work here. Trust me.
Fourth...the actuator (part 18 on page FG) mounting sleeve gets honked out and floppy after *mumble mumble* years. PLEASE resist the urge to drill a cross-hole in the internal tranny rod (I've seen that...not pretty) to somehow tighten it up. You really really don't want to have to disassemble the rear case to replace that piece, if you can find it. Somehow, what has to be done is eliminate the 'slop' between the through-bolt and the mechanism and actuator, and size the ID of the actuator to be more closely fit to the OD of the cross-rod from the tranny. Whether that means machining a brass sleeve for the tranny rod or somehow putting in a thin shim (we're talking thousandths here, but multiply that by the slop all the way to the front...and you can see where it might be an issue in reality)
Assuming the location link sets the left-right of the stick in the cockpit as described in the manual, the spacing of the parallel arms at the front of the engine to transfer the motion are correct, the bushings at the bottom of the shift lever are not perished (and the tang arms are parallel...what a mickey-mouse arrangement!) then all the slop you may have at that back end is where you're going to find the best return on getting the shift to work, since that's where the most complex part of the mechanism (turning what is, in essence lateral movement of the shift into rotational movement of the actuator on one plane and the opposite on the other) is.
Just some thoughts...it will never be Elan-precise (neither is the TC, if I'm honest...), but you can get it pretty close.
OH, yeah, that ring clamp you see on the actuator? A PO somewhere along the line put 1/2" long slits in the side of the actuator tube about 1/4" outside of the holes for the cross-bolt, and used that clamp to close up the tube so it didn't wiggle on the actuator rod. Seemed to work, but never saw another clamp like that again.
HTH
-
Thanks Bryan for taking the time to document the potential problems.
Your item 1 , all original, so I’ll be ordering them soon.
Item 2 , bingo no spacer and there is evidence of contact on nut. Problem is now I’ll have to replace the bolt that was in there also because it doesn’t have the length to add a spacer and have the stop nut catch the threads. See pic. ( these items were all put back as they were originally by PO’s.
Item 3 , not gonna happen unless it all comes out.
However I did manage to get the slop out a bit and by shortening the 3.5” on the gear change unit linkage. It also made the ball joint miss my crankshaft pulley , and by cutting away some material on the pulley and bolt head .
You tube video of interior shifter posted here:
https://youtube.com/shorts/oQr1diQsAjg?feature=shared
So I went for a drive, no grinding, hit all four gears and reverse and the haft shaft seals stop leaking, but after the ride the output shaft still leaks. So I’ll try to hurry and order my parts for the original gearbox and do it again.
Then I glued in my headliner and trimmed it up. Thanks to the member who suggested this contact cement.
I’ll post pictures asap, since there stuck in space right now.
Dakazman
P.s. I’m not making track nigh in Daytona today but it may be postponed due to weather rainstorms heavy in area .
-
Congratulations on your fixing your shifting situation and good luck on your leak... :beerchug:
-
D'man, if you have pictures of that headliner install, please detail how you did it. I have that job coming up.
And congrats on getting that shifting to work. :beerchug:
-
:beerchug:
-
YAY! Glad I could be of some small assistance.
One suggestion...I've found over the years that the Europa mechanism works best if 1) you're precise and deliberately gentle in where you're moving the shift (forward and back should only take a couple fingers to move it...!!!!), and 2) you imagine there is a gate at the base of the shift like that prancing mule marque...when going cross-gate, go forward to neutral, cross the gate, then up into the next gear more than thinking you can go diagonally across from 2->3 or 3->2. Just less wear/pressure on all the moving parts you have to get through to get the motion you need.
The TC isn't much better, and they only really got close when they were well into the Esprit formula, IMHO.
Again...YAY!
(the old joke was that the easiest way to find reverse in a Europa was to disassemble the transaxle...not really, but the gent who got me into Lotus back in the late 70s used to say that all the time...)
-
D'man, if you have pictures of that headliner install, please detail how you did it. I have that job coming up.
And congrats on getting that shifting to work. :beerchug:
From my 693R blog from October 12, 2007:
Removed the visors, headliner (it came off pretty much in two pieces), with a THICK coat of factory foam. The new headliner I ordered 2 days ago came in with the headliner cement. So, to take my mind off the windshield in the basement with the big crack, I replaced the headliner. It only took about an hour or so, including cutting, trimming, etc. Need to pick up some edge molding the finish the top of the opening; still need to trim the front edge afterwards.
Hint for installing...start at the rear of the ceiling and work forward to the windshield opening.
You need to take off the cantrails, the visors, and carefully (CAREFULLY) set the headliner into the rear up above the rear window trim. Take your time.
Other than that, it's just carefully pull down, clean up the remnants of the toasted foam on the ceiling, start at the back, and go a bit at the time, working forward.
it's helpful if your windshield is out, since you want to fold the front edge over the opening flange. I used a strip of black door edge molding to capture the edge; when putting the windshield back in (assuming direct bonding), the bead is 1/2" thick, so the edge molding barely intrudes into the mount area. If you've the rubber gasket mounting (pre-1/1/1970), ignore this; the rubber windshield mounting will take care of that.
Some photos here:
http://www.lotuseuropa.us/0693r/photos/index.php/2007/10-13-07-Headliner
-
D'man, if you have pictures of that headliner install, please detail how you did it. I have that job coming up.
And congrats on getting that shifting to work. :beerchug:
I documented my headliner assembly awhile back. I’ll post it asap , but you can see the outcome here. Pee
Thanks , still have a way to go but it’s nice to get here out on the road. Still needs a shot of starting fluid but then fires up for hours afterwards.
Kendo , Found it , https://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=2058.msg52210#msg52210
Dakazman
-
Bryan
Here is that actuator lever and my outing around block at friends house .
Like you also mentioned, I need to learn and finesse it to those locations.
Both my wife’s and my phone couldn’t send emails today but they just fixed it again.
Dakazman
-
Looking good!
-
Thanks guys,
It’s the best of both worlds now, I get to work on her and enjoy driving!
Baby steps though, It’s definitely hard to resist the temptation of pushing that pedal down.
Dakazman
-
Some finishing touches going on and some minor adjustments. Brake pedal raised up a bit more so it’s above gas pedal.
Second is this horn button, after a new spring clip kept falling went back to the old rusted on , so far so good.
Third, a pillar and headliner trim piece mock up . Glassing it over and then will trim it down even further.
Lastly, a stainless steel cover for my defroster fan which operates with or without heater. The fog lights also come on Inside headlights. I still need to cut the openings in and polish up🤣
Dakazman
-
A little bit of everything today but arts and crafts and fiberglass work sucked up most of the time.
Dodging storms was another and looking for parts on my elky. How can I lose a back half of an interior light?
The trim around the windows and a pillars went well and I was able to trim them up a bit for shaping and fitment.
Then while waiting for the glass to dry I started cutting out a close-out panel I started months ago
Dakazman
-
Some progress today but unable to do much outside with high winds and rain .
I decided to at least cut the defrost/ heater fan cover. Rought cut complete but still needs a little polishing up.
The rest of my day was, “Where did I put that …” . How can I loose a light assembly backing plate ??? I need it because the ground for directional controls and revylifhts go through it.
😡
Dakazman
-
After several days of catching up on some landscaping chores with temps in the 90’s and humidity at 100%, I treated myself to a few rides in the Europa. Going around at 20 mph and shifting much better, brake pedal at a much better angle, mirrors adjusted as good as possible 🤣🤣😵💫 , I turned the car to a 45 mph road, my only way out. Acceleration to 45 mph through the 4 gears went flawlessly, the tracking was spot on straight which was my main concern, then turned around and headed back having the time of my life . Nothing went wrong…with this 6 mile run !
Concerns, gas pedal hang up a tad but wow are these LOUD , not a rattle trap loud but I could hear every lifter and the tune of the exhaust. 😍 😍😍😁. It definitely gets your heart pumping.
Dakazman
-
:beerchug: :BEER3: :pirate:
-
:trophy:
-
:pirate: great news
-
Thanks guys,
It’s definitely a milestone, and I did hit 50 mph 😁. I did have my horn button pop out again though and now I’m thinking about a small amount of adhesive on the button and ring .
Then I went back to interior trim. The last two pieces to finish off the a pillars and hide the rails of the headliner. Deciding on whether the vinyl or microfiber as a covering.
Babysitting the daughter’s cat while she was at a convention in Canada was another deviation in a good way .
Parts came in for my El Camino interior light dilemma and I got all my emails back after switching from spectrum, to t mobile and back to spectrum, 🥴 so now your all up to date
Dakazman
-
You do tend to stay busy!
-
What me?
With all that is going on I forgot to order the gearbox bearings , I’m just getting two .
I hope RD is back to order the tie rod ends for the linkage.
Have to work on why it only starts with a shot of starting fluid but then fires off for three hours later with minimal cranking.
Then to charge up the ac 😁 and wire up the low pressure switch .
Dakazman
-
I finally got AC in the Europa. 🤣 while heat index temps are in the 100f range I managed to fabricate a close-out panel. First with thin sheet aluminum then used it as a template for a fiberglass panel. Then I made it from glass , better to have a non metallic layer under the fuse box.
Then I cut the roof liner fabric that I’ll place on the fiberglass trim pieces that I cut to hide the headliner rods.
Then I had to fix a mishap on my granddaughter’s scooter.
Dakazman
-
Covered the apillar /headliner trim. Still have to work on installing them but I believe it looks a lot better.
Then mounted the hinged under dash close-out panel , complete with magnetic catch to keep shut. to hide the exposed wiring. Still deciding on the finish covering, vinyl , or hi gloss black to match the console.
Dakazman
-
:)
-
Then I did some cleaning and polishing….
-
Do they allow cars that are covered with a mirror in Florida?!
-
8)
-
Then I did some cleaning and polishing….
We expect no less.... ;D
-
I have a car show, or something coming up on August 25th , Its weird how they promote it. there is a car club behind but they don't answer questions about who is allowed to show up. At 4$ for a bottle of water at this restaurant, I'll bring my own.
Facebook , Urban Prime. A friend of mine kids work there so that's why I'm going.
The Ferraris are intimidating. Judging on their pics and what I saw on the news with police guiding on lookers
around, YIKES.
Dakazman
-
I made it to this event only 15 minutes late. The weather looked bleak, with thunderstorms passing by all day, I decided not to take the Europa but instead the El Camino. It's better with rainstorms since I checked it to be water tight. when getting there it was packed with cars and spectators but there was only one street blocked off for participants. the restruant parking lot was no entry, only patron parking.
So, I parked a few blocks down and walked. It was amazing to see such fine cars, motorcycles and Golf carts. Lotus was represented with one car, a member of coastal auto rally. They support our police and it was evident, which is fine by me.
Good thing I didn't take the Europa, the rod end was a few mis-shifts from shearing. My order from RD arrived in time for me to swap out but babysitting won out. We needed to step up as many grandparents would when an emergency crops up. All is well now.
My spare 336 gearbox seals that I had shown leaking were dry rotted and hard. then I torn into the differential shaft seals. Round seals don't belong here, Which is what I took out from my original, I swapped the assembly previously, the new square seals fit snugly and had a snap fit when pushed in place.
The only difference with the differential nuts is Renault 16 shop assembly and what I ordered was the lack of a felt wiper and spacer.
My needed bearings arrived for the primary shaft but now I wish I'd ordered the roll pin. I still also need to buy a bearing puller set, harbor freight here I come.
Dakazman
-
I have a square seal on one side and an o-ring on the other. Both sides are dry. Properly done, either will work.
-
Thanks JB, any tips on pulling these bearings off ? Better yet getting the new ones on? Heat / freezer again?
Dave
-
Use a puller and a bearing splitter. You’ll need a section of pipe so you don’t push against the output shaft.
I would cheerfully freeze an aluminum component if I had to slide a bearing over it but not otherwise. Freezing steel makes very little dimensional difference.
-
I picked up a bearing removal tool and removed the two bearings that needed replacing. Then I cut off the bearing races so I can press the new bearings on . The front smaller bearing will need that pipe yo mentioned or a larger socket. It wasn’t to bad removing with my new tool.
That’s all I accomplished today after spending a half day with no electricity. Somewhere in our area the underground wiring was taken out by a lightning strike.
-
Productive day so far, 😁
I pressed on the new bearings without a hitch and proceeded to assemble the gearbox. I should have done a few dry runs mating the two halves before adding the hylomar . I figured out what had to be where but even still verifying the reverse and the tangs were extremely hard to see .
I’m up to adding the rear housing but is there a way to check the internal shift before bolting down? Spins freely and quietly now .
Dakazman
-
Yes you can check to see how it shifts, in fact, you should check at every opportunity till you put it back in the car.
Before you bolt the case halves together, you can pry on the shift forks with a screwdriver and push or pull on them to make sure you get all the gears. Then bolt the case halves together and check them again. The torque the nuts on the ends of the primary and secondary shafts and check it again. Then bolt the end cover on and check it by grabbing the selector input shaft (maybe using a screwdriver in the hole - usually there is one - in the shaft to turn it) and check to make sure it’s still good. You want to find out as soon as possible that something is wrong. Doing at every stage might help you find the cause of the problem.
Obviously, if your case halves are already bolted up, don’t take them apart unless there is a problem, but I’m sure you get the idea.
-
It’s all back together and shifting the way it is intended to .
I’m learning its pattern and the slop and lack of stop on the reverse gate. I’ll try to make a gate pattern and stop on the rear case . When the shaft moves to far over the gate to reverse is a 1/4” less. I’ll make a video of the side to side movements.
The other gearbox would not go into reverse so my road test canceled. Then the rain came so I just worked on the original gearbox .
I also noticed on it that the differential races moved in the case but I believe they center when I adjust the nuts and set the preload . Right now the seals aren’t riding on the shafts.
-
With this thought in mind to find exact locations of the 336 shift gates.
So I cut a piece of angle and mounted it to the side of the gearbox cutting a hole so the shifter shaft can move through it. I’ll have to drill and tap the two holes in the box since they were modified.
Once I get the channel mounded I’ll mark the points on the angle, then drill a roll pin through the gearbox shaft to glide into the gates in the angle. The reverse point extends past the end of the channel so I’ll weld in a section there and to stop the shafts movement past the reverse gate.
You can see the awl in the background going through its movement angle related to the shaft.
It was a super hot day today full of other things to do but I will get focused again soon on the drivability of my car.
Dakazman
-
I took it a little further today identifying the locations of the gates. Setting neutral and marking the angles of travel. Drilled through the shaft to accept a m2 dowel pin . Reinstalled the bracket and drilled for neutral in the 3 gates . Now I just have to clear a path and that should take any guesswork out out the shifter.
Once set and the linkage adjusted it could be removed or kept for other improvements.
I did add lightness. 😁 I cut a bunch of excess angle off and will continue to.
Or it could be a complete waste of my time.
Dakazman
-
Cleared the gates into the steel plate. It’s amazing to see the gearboxes pattern throw, you would think it it’s much longer and wider than this . I still have some fileing to do and then I’ll install it on my spare gearbox to check if the gates are the same . If so I’ll adjust the linkage to make the
Tighter.
Found reverse and all four gears on my test ride. The amazing thing was that I got her to start without starting fluid. Simply by just pulling the choke out and a few pumps on the accelerator.
On the ride I tested the brakes. I’m not crazy about these brakes, so that will be another day.
I just wanted to drive a bit and so I shut it off and took a few pics then started again easily for the drive back into the garage.
Third gear had a little grinding on the center rod end again, so I’ll trim down something else .
Dakazman
-
I took it for a 5-mile journey, all good until I got home to find my crankshaft pully gone and a trail of oil in driveway. I have a spare but need to shave it down. when installing, Ill add some thread locker to the retaining nut. One good thing is after the ride, I heard my radiator fan come on after the car was shut off, it was just a backup if i forgot to turn the fan switch .
Shifter is now consistently finding the right gear, so it will be a good test of the guide bracket I made.
I'll be pulling this gearbox next to install my original one. The reason is I believe the bell housing seal is leaking. Then in my spare time I'll try to finish up some interior concerns , and charge the AC system. Before that I'll have to wire up a Low-pressure switch to activate the compressor.
Engine now starting cold with the choke. I have alot to learn about Weber carbs, Sorry China knockoffs.
Dakazman
-
I need a little help
After closing up the gearbox with the differential unit in place, rear cover attempted t on adjust the lash. Problem is it doesn’t seem to mesh correctly and I can’t seem to adjust it .
Do I have to open it up again?
I did not replace these two bearings but noticed the races move in case . Which I thought is normal to set center. When turning it feels a bit ratchity at times. Even with the case nuts loose I cannot get it to mesh .
Dakazman
-
Hard to quite understand the issue working over the phone, so to speak.
The tapered roller bearings locate the ring gear precisely. If the bearings are loose, then the ring gear can flop around and be very difficult to “mesh”. Turn the transaxle sideways so the ring gear assembly can drop squarely into the tapered roller bearing. Then wind in the nut to “lift” the ring gear into place.
-
That makes sense. I'm trying to do it in the horizontal plane. Thanks much JB.
I just have too unsecure it. The wheel side nut is sticking out of the case when it should be flush, so it doesn't have to move alot.
Dave
-
I think it work after the um-teenth time. I think the ring side bearing race was cocked sideways slightly. I used some Prussian blue but I used the non drying type , it just made as mess and I didn’t accomplish the task. Tomorrow.
Dakazman
-
I just couldn't make the outer race budge. Opened the gearbox and tapped it out gently, Thanks JB for mentioning the cases are very brittle, so easy does it and out it came. Waiting on two new bearings from 123 bearing for the differential. I pulled off the old ones all ready and waiting for a delivery.
Brake pedal test is much better as was the gear selection, but can still do better. Oil from gearbox still leaks from bell housing so getting the other gearbox done is paramount.
Then my daughter all most shows up with her broken car. another diversion. :headbanger:
Dakazman
-
I'm back from my diversion.
:headbanger:, smoke coming from engine and check engine light on and dinging, SHUT IT OFF. :deadhorse:
Enough said, moving on. KIDS.
Update: gearbox bearings for differential on their way from 123bearing! :) On my spare gearbox in the car shifter adjusted and can get all 4 gears and rev without much hunting. Thinking about checking my gate assembly on it, for function and commonality. Then down to the last 3 or 4 wires to hide .
I then went back to the lotus and re-did a few items for aesthetics and function. I'll paint this lower close-out panel but could have saved a bunch of time covering it. Weather to break this week, good enough to paint without much trouble.
Another small job will be to lower the muffler/ bracket due to the wrap lifted the luggage tray up slightly.
Details ,details ,details.
Oh, I forgot to mention, I ordered a cheap backup camera for testing.
Dakazman
-
I like your idea of a closeout panel under the dash. I've thought of doing something similar.
I have a backup camera with a radio that has a small screen (I'm constantly looking for a more modern single DIN radio with Bluetooth and a backup camera support but it seems the big manufacturers aren't interested). It's supposed to have a 170° field of view but it is not nearly as good as the one on my 2016 CR-V. Still, it is nice to have.
-
I know it's not adding lightness but it does block anyone from pulling on wires. I'll make up for it somewhere else.
BDA, I have no radio, WTS my iPhone will be the go-to entertainment center. I have a spare 10x not being used and I hope to have it blend into future mods. Pertronics come to mind and other modern advancements.
My next big project will be to wire up the A/C system. Pfreen guided me to his systems wiring and I know I have some other issues to work out with pulley size and actuation. Staying positive I'm going to charge the system manually, and get the condenser fan to come on, all at the same time the compressor is coming online.
Dakazman
-
A little progress today installing a IPhone mount for my so to get back-up camera and an entertainment center. Can’t wait for the cameral. The mount was from an old selfie camera stick that I found laying around in a closet.
Then I received an education in Bearing numbers for the gearbox differential. Who would think the same number on the races would have two different ID’s . 30207 was on both races and so I only measured one side of the differential… mistake the two sides are different, one side a 35 and one a 37mm ID . I ordered the 35 mm, two of them .. mistake 2 . So tomorrow is another day, do I order the 37 mm at 266$ or install the old one with a new external race??? I did find one for 64$ but then another wait . I have another option, we have a local bearing shop I’ll check with, fingers crossed.
Dakazman
-
Interesting i-Phone mount!
Interestingly, your diff and my NG3 diff have the same bearings. One side's bearings have a smaller ID otherwise they are the same. I thought I had thought of a reason for the different bearings but I can't think of it now. I would get new bearings. They are things that when you see them, you should change them because it is so painful to replace them! I don't think they are anything special so you should probably be able to get them locally or at worst from a place like r.d.. Be sure you refer to the dimensions of the bearing if you get them from a bearing supply house in case there are differences in bearing numbers (ID 37mm, OD 72mm, thickness 18.25mm). Looking at the 123bearing page for those bearings, the prices vary a lot! I have no idea what accounts for the huge price differences.
-
Here’s a few more pics of the mount , remember I mounted the mirror to the roof after glassing in a wood block .
Dakazman
-
I couldn’t take it anymore. Trying to find a 37 mm 30207 bearing is just about NLA, at least in the USA. So I took the 30207 35 mm outer race and swapped it out with the outer race of the 37mm 30207. The diameters and bearing cut are the same per a shop here.
Now I’m up to setting the lash , wow what a difference all ready. Spinning much quieter with less drag than I’ve seen with on two units.
The tube of gear compound I purchased would not come out of the tube it came it so tomorrow is another day yet again.
Dakazman
-
What’s gear compound for?
-
Kendo,
To check the pattern of the ring and pinion. See link below, download the Dana pdf.
https://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=2058.msg43141;topicseen#msg43141
Dakazman
-
Fascinating. Thanks for the details. I hope to never have to open my tranny :)
-
Tried again desperately to get a good pattern, still no joy.
Then I went to lower the muffler rack, success, better than a full inch lower. I did however I forgot to order the heat mat to wrap it with. I did manage to add lightness to the bracket and can now disconnect from the header to tailpipe with pulling only 3 bolts and two nuts. 3 on header and 2 nuts loosened on gearbox mount.
I also tried to mount the shift gate on this gearbox but had two problems, first the lower gearbox mount brack occupies the lower mount hole. no biggie there , cut and add a doubler to make up the dimension. Second , a dealbreaker. the crossshaft was drilled out for a shifter . the size of the hole to large for me to continue. :headbanger:
Tomorrow, I'll probably pull the gearbox out and fix the gearbox seal leak and re-install. then fight another day on the original gearbox.
Dakazman
-
Can you sleeve that hole down to what you need for that indexing pin?
-
Kendo,
Thanks you got me on track again.
I could do that or just swap out The rear cover, or just the control bar itself. 🤔😁👍👍
One is a 336/56 and this one is a /66 , I’ll do so reading but it should be interchangeable.
Dakazman
.
-
Started about 9am pulling the gearbox, good thing I did it sooner, rather than after a few test drives.
I pulled off the inspection cover just to be greeted by some gear lube.I was amazed how much it held back. Thats when I had no doubts that the gearbox needed to come back out. found the problem, the new shaft seal inner spring was wrapped around the forward shaft.
Now about 11, it's ready to go back in. I wished that I would have been putting the original gearbox back in, but I can't seem to get it right just yet. At least I'll be back to road testing so I can pull something else back out. :FUNNY:
Dakazman
-
Glad you found that! Good luck on getting a good wear pattern. I'm thankful that when I rebuilt my NG3, I didn't have to worry about that because the pinion depth was not adjustable. All I had to worry about was crown wheel back lash and bearing pre-load.
-
BDA,
I didn't have to worry about that because the pinion depth was not adjustable. All I had to worry about was crown wheel back lash and bearing pre-load.
That's what I'm thinking.
However,
The last time I was in here checking the backlash and the pull test I had a satisfactory pattern. I'm checking my old post somewhere between pg 50 and 80. Just to be on the safe side, better to have an abundance of caution than a pile of parts.
Dakazman
-
Good day 😁
Finished installing the gearbox, ready for tomorrow’s test drive and see if it wet the floor in the morning. I would have been finished earlier but I took a two hour nap/ lunch/ pool break😁🤣
Dakazman
-
Test ride complete. The good news is that the gearbox doesn't leak any more. Anywhere :beerchug:
The source of another leak is the forward crankcase pulley. It had a new seal on it and hadn't leaked prior, so I may be looking for another 843 crank pulley and replacing the seal.
Another concern is that my brakes are atrocious. Standing on then to come to a rolling 20mph stop and yet only on the last foot it seem to grab. when bleeding them I noticed the front discs would be had to turn afterwards, back brakes re drum.
Carb needs adjustment sometimes seeing light Black smoke billow out. Ill check the plugs also. light black soot at exhaust.
Dakazman
-
"Another concern is that my brakes are atrocious."
What are you running?
-
JB,
I had to search way back to find it. Time flies.
https://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=2084.45
.70 master from moss motors .
I’ll have to ask Lotus Joe to interject those 10 pages into this thread one day.
Dakazman
-
D’Man,
A Speedi Sleeve may be available to fix your pulley ….
-
What pads?
-
I don’t remember, maybe from moss also . I know I bought the spitfire rotors there.
I’ll dig a bit more tomorrow. Rear brake pads from RD. So I could have gotten them there.
I remember off the top of my head about green pads which I didn’t buy.
Appreciate your help JB .
Thanks turbo I’ll keep that in mind.
Dakazman
-
If you don't live in, or drive to, mountainous areas, then EBC greenstuff pads are just fine. They have a nice initial bite but not too much so. I used Mintex 1144 pads very happily as I drive through the mountains.
-
JB, what rear shoes do you use to match the Mintexes? Does Mintex make a matching shoe?
-
I just use standard GT6 shoes with no issues.
-
JB,
I’ll get to brakes tomorrow, I replaced the front Crankshaft seal and worked on a few other things.
My BA went shopping 😵💫 . I am also guilty, the grandkids came over and did a sleepover . I can’t believe all the questions my grandson had when he was in the Europa , what’s this , this , this … on and on.
I believe I even got the original gearboxes pattern centered, the lube was to thick and hard to mark, but after spraying with rubbing alcohol I started getting something. Then I continued for another hour ratcheting the primary shaft while and turning the retaining nuts slowly this time so it wouldn’t bind. The vertical position did help drop the bearing races closer to center and in a parallel line that the differencial didn’t do when horizontal.
Dakazman
-
I also just noticed I surpassed 200,000 views . It jumped 1200 views in one day .
It only took 7 plus years.
THANK YOU ALL FOR ALL YOUR HELP.
Dave
-
8) :trophy: :BEER3:
-
I found half the problem today on the brakes, chalk it up to interruptions or just trying to get the big jobs accomplished.
Rear brakes lower pivots never adjusted so the wheels just kept on turning when brake pedal applied. I did want to make sure the brake lines were bled first before adjusting, funny thing was that the e-brake worked with the adjuster all the way in or retracted.
I'm going for a test drive tomorrow if the weather holds up, and hoping the saved fluid will be directed to the front calipers, even though it has dual lines into the MC.
Funny thing is trying to remember where to jack the front up with the close out panel on. I think I used a 2x4 on the 4 close out bolts to lift and then used two jackstands with a 2x4 from side to side. one of these days I'll get a lift.
Dakazman
-
I have a lot to go over, but will save it for…
I will be ending this thread.
I will be starting another named 1970 0453r Fettling or Roadibility or Working the bugs out.
I'll let you decide
Dakazman
-
***DELETIA***
Funny thing is trying to remember where to jack the front up with the close out panel on. I think I used a 2x4 on the 4 close out bolts to lift and then used two jackstands with a 2x4 from side to side. one of these days I'll get a lift.
Dakazman
I usually use the jack points to the rear of the front wheels one side at a time with my floor jack, get it in the air, take wheel off, slide stand under cross frame, repeat other side. Never had a problem. Just a athought.
-
Thanks Bryan , :I-agree:
I know you're right about this but I cringed when I heard the creaking noises soon after I put the body back on. I just can't bring myself to doing it that way.
Dakazman
-
Hi Bryan,
found this today in the owners manual online . It’s just too creeky for me , I just don’t want to hear pop.🫣 I’ll wait to hear more from others if they are comfortable using it.
Dakazman
-
The TC owner's manual says, "The jack should be located at the rear or each wheel arch as shown in Fig. 11 for the front wheels and in Fig. 12 for the rear wheels."
A close look at Fig. 12 shows the jack under the front wheel arch of the rear wheel.
However the body is bolted to the frame near the rear of the rear wheel arch and would seem to make a better place to jack up the rear.
In my garage, which thankfully is the only place I've needed to jack up the rear, I've always jacked it up from either the tranny or the rear hoop.
-
It’s just too creeky for me , I just don’t want to hear pop.
I find if I get down on the floor more slowly, I don't creek nearly as much... :pirate:
-
:I-agree:
I have to ,, I noticed that when I stay on the ground that works too.
I’m assuming creeky means something else down there much like the Bonney wrenches I have. 🤣
D’man
-
With a jack, I only use either the front T section or the rear hoop, never on the body itself. I use this bar to use jack stands at the rear:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-PRTWCMN/0/MBNtp9KkfD8rXPGHqF99cWQ8hVVPgmrjwzwFnwzwk/X5/IMG_1888-X5.jpg)
With a portable hoist, I use long 2x6s to spread the load.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-T944TMM/0/NH4KNRkpFzTkhf2q2NsnwZLdG4DrPSt8tHgmDBJmt/X5/58336335401__295DDDC7-D09A-4B48-BF1E-832AB09BDE1B-X5.jpg)
(I now orient the jack the other way to increase rear bias)
The S1's sill are very thick with a massive jack point/seat bolt anchor/ reinforcement. I carry a modified aluminium Porsche scissor jack and it will easily, and safely, raise one side or the other high enough to have both wheels on that side off the ground.
-
JB,
I copied your rear loop bar and stand method, it’s perfect.
Then I see you ranger Jack 🫡 and visited the web site. The 5k model will work on my car’s nicely.
Thanks
https://search.app/k2RN66NmyHMFxrtdA
Dakazman
-
Don’t copy everything I do. I’m on my second wife, and she’s not looking happy 😱
-
JB, When I see something that makes sense and is safe , I adopt it.
Your site had some interesting other things …
See pics
Dakazman