Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: andall on Monday,September 07, 2015, 11:05:07 PM
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Hi all,
For the last few months I've been trying to find an S2 - either a doer-upper or decent road-legal example. Sadly I don't have unlimited funds so I'll have to be prudent with my purchase. There don't seem to be too many S2s about, just to make things difficult! The blue and white one in Suffolk on Ebay caught my eye. It looks OK in the flesh but the seller and I couldn't agree on a price, considering the work it needed. There's a red and white one that's been on Ebay for a few months needs too much work for what he's asking. I did hear about a white 'project' (very good body) with a Vauxhall engine near Diss but don't have a contact.
If anyone reading this can put me onto one I'd be very grateful. By the way, I live a few miles from Hethel.
Thanks in advance.
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I've been watching the blue and white one on ebay for a while, I don't know what work it needs but it looked like a pretty car at a good price.
I paid £6k for a barn find that needs an almost complete restoration, I've already spend £3k on parts and I haven't paid for the respray yet.
I think I would have bought the blue one if it had showed up on ebay before mine. There are currently only 18 S2s registered, and 15 sorned, in the country. There isn't that many to choose from
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Question for Gmg31:-
How many TC are registered or SORNed?
How many TCS are registered or SORNed?
For those of you across the pond, SORNed means Statutory Off Road Notice given to the government so the car does not need insurance or road tax, and obviously cannot be used on public roads.
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This doesn't totally answer your question, but Joe has production figures here: http://www.lotuseuropa.org/production_figures.htm
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I wanted to know how many are still registered in the UK.
I know I have monopolised the market a bit, but I have only seen 1 other Europa of any description actually on the road in the 36 years since I sold my 1975 registered car in 1979.
I have seen two basket cases (rusty wrecks) while trying to buy, and my coach trimmer in Norfolk had an immaculate Lagoon Blue 1973 TCS in for a complete interior re-fit.
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Question for Gmg31:-
How many TC are registered or SORNed?
How many TCS are registered or SORNed?
For those of you across the pond, SORNed means Statutory Off Road Notice given to the government so the car does not need insurance or road tax, and obviously cannot be used on public roads.
Ok, I'm not gmg31 but if you really want to know.....
48TC registered in 2015, 34 SORN
40TCS registered, 31 SORN
The page is here : https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/browse/lotus/lotus_europa (https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/browse/lotus/lotus_europa)
I'm surprised how many TC's survive considering they were only made for a year before the TCS came along and stole the show, and the S2 had an even longer production run so that number is surprisingly low. But of course, what this really means is that the S2's break down the most and folks chuck them away, the TCS fall apart next and the most reliable Europa is.... the TC ;)
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Actually most where exported when new and those that weren't have been snapped up by the Japanese (RH drive).
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These are the current numbers of all Europas in the Uk
Reg Sorn
Europa 114 86
Europa S2 18 15
Europa 3 1
Europa special 40 31
Europa twin Cam 48 34
Total 223 167
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Considering there were supposed to be somewhere between 9 & 10,000 of all variants built (depending on which source you read), and even accepting that the first year or so production was exclusively for export, that's not a big number is it ? I haven't done the sums for the equivalent 2 seater Elans but just a casual glance indicates they have twice the survival rates from a similar total production run, albeit over a longer period.
I remember in the 80s/90s (?) there was a drain to Japan but that tended to be top class cars making the headlines rather than folks exporting wrecks for rebuild so I'm not sure we can say that's where the missing thousands are.
C'mon, own up, who's got 'em ?
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GMG31, you've got big balls to pay £6K for a basket case. I know prices have risen sharply over the last year, but are you worried that you'll spend more than it'll be worth at today's values? I've seen a few wrecks on Ebay fetching over £5K but when restored S2s sell for £15K tops, the numbers don't stack up for me.
With regard to there being less than 20 UK cars each SORNed and on the road, I find it incredible. I can only assume that there are more in peoples' garages that aren't SORNed as so many were built. Banks Europa must be doing most of their business with foreigners if old Europas are so scarce.
Anyway, I'll keep looking and keep my fingers crossed that prices drop a bit.
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I can only assume that there are more in peoples' garages that aren't SORNed
Guilty as charged.
There is a T/C on eBay at the moment worth watching:-
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1972-LOTUS-EUROPA-TWIN-CAM-72000-miles-Unrestored-example-FSH-/161817317952?hash=item25ad105240
In good condition that would be worth around £20k. Let us see what it goes for. My guess is around £12k+. No obvious faults.
P.S. Just seen it advertised at £19,995 elsewhere. Unrestored? He must be dreaming !
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72000 miles!!! That's the second highest mileage Europa I've heard of. Many years ago I read about an S2 with something like 250K on it.
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According to the Europa registry...
S2 (Type 54) 1,788 made, 380 registered...
S2 (Type 65 XXXX) 372 made, 96 registered...
S2 (Type 65) 2134 made, 415 registered...
Added up = 891 registered of 4,294 made.
I haven't added ours to the registry yet, (seem to always get interrupted by some sort of flying monkey or family drama) so add Type 65/1000R to the list.
Sorry, not for sale. :'(
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72000 miles!!! That's the second highest mileage Europa I've heard of. Many years ago I read about an S2 with something like 250K on it.
Meet the 3rd highest then BDA..... :)
Mine had 50k fully documented miles on it when I bought it in the 80s and it was used daily until around '94, '95 so I must be getting somewhere around there. Sadly I don't know the real numbers, I had at least two occasions when I couldn't replace the speedo cable (actually getting one, not just fitting it) for a few months and I re-set the (2nd) speedo when I put it all back together in the early 2000's. But I'm sure it's done at least 70K on this engine/gearbox/body.
I now wish I'd documented mileages better, but back then I never bothered. I do have a good service history and an impressive collection of bills though ;)
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GMG31, you've got big balls to pay £6K for a basket case.
I am prepared to accept that I may have been a bit hasty but I loved the back story, see Europa restoration 2015
http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=1120.0
This is my fourth Lotus restoration but it is by far the biggest stretch to my abilities. This is my first Europa and the first time I've removed a body shell and done (doing) a full nut and bolt restoration (all in 8 months btw). I got a 3 year interest free credit card and I've front loaded all of my parts so almost everything has already arrived. I did a spread sheet today (upon the urging of her indoors). Parts is currently running at £4k, re spray will be about £3k so total cost will be in the region of £13k. When its done it will be on a brand new body shell, brand new engine (not recon) plus all the new parts. According to my research it will be one of only two surviving 5 stage ELSE Europas. I really don't know yet how much it might be worth but for me it is all about the challenge.
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72000 miles!!! That's the second highest mileage Europa I've heard of. Many years ago I read about an S2 with something like 250K on it.
Meet the 3rd highest then BDA..... :)
Mine had 50k fully documented miles on it when I bought it in the 80s and it was used daily until around '94, '95 so I must be getting somewhere around there. Sadly I don't know the real numbers, I had at least two occasions when I couldn't replace the speedo cable (actually getting one, not just fitting it) for a few months and I re-set the (2nd) speedo when I put it all back together in the early 2000's. But I'm sure it's done at least 70K on this engine/gearbox/body.
I now wish I'd documented mileages better, but back then I never bothered. I do have a good service history and an impressive collection of bills though ;)
Congratulations, Brian! It does a heart good to know that that these cars are actually driven and not just garage queens. My intention was for mine to be a daily driver when I set out to rebuild it and I drive it at pretty much every opportunity, but it still doesn't add up to many miles so far.
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There is a T/C on eBay at the moment worth watching: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1972-LOTUS-EUROPA-TWIN-CAM-72000-miles-Unrestored-example-FSH-/161817317952?hash=item25ad105240
It looks like it has a ragtop. I wish there were some pictures of the top.
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I am prepared to accept that I may have been a bit hasty but I loved the back story, see Europa restoration 2015
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According to my research it will be one of only two surviving 5 stage ELSE Europas. I really don't know yet how much it might be worth but for me it is all about the challenge.
Actually, I think you got a great deal. Apart from the ELSE connection what you'll end up with is a 100% restoration and you don't actually find many in that class. But it's not about the deal, the cost or whatever, it's about pleasure and a hobby. In the great economics of life, hobbies don't count......
Brian
ps - If it's any consolation I paid £4,600 for mine in the 80s at a time when most were selling at £3k. Never regretted it for a minute..... the best meccano set a boy can have ::)